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Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider






 AnomanderRake wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Karol wrote:
I wouldnt know where to start.


Well some dexes have units that need improving, and other dexes just need improvements overall.

Probably the worst exemple out of the dex therefore?


It does depend some on why it's the worst unit in the book. The reasons GK Purgators are kind of crap are intimately tied into the reasons why GK in general are kind of crap (forced to buy expensive melee weapons with only 1 Attack, forced to be psykers for little to no practical gain, Tactical Marine statline), for instance.


A demon prince sized plastic model then

Its the pinnacle of Eldar occult/technology and is a incarnation of their shattered god of war that breathes fire and is made of melting/superheated metal...
TTBH I think he's very nieche HQ for eldar(as in hes actualy a decent beatstick), and I would play him a lot if he was say 50-60 points cheaper.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





low-medium power Melee units.

by that I mean, that super powerful melee units seem to definatly have a place, smash captains etc. but units like howling banshees, assault marines etc. just seem too weak. and I'd really like to see that improved, I think a big part of it is they just lack sufficant attacks. Using say.. assault marines vs tac marines, for example, why would I waste my time on attempting assault, with a unit with 2 S4 ap - attacks, when I could instead make 2 S4 AP - attacks at long range. I'd really like GW to go back and buff these types of units over all,

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/08 05:51:15


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




The Void

Heavy/Elite infantry of all sorts has kind of lost its role. Terminators, Nobz, Meganobz, etc. These are units that, in previous editions, were not efficient to kill with small arms fire. They usually needed plasma or heavy weapons to kill efficiently. But in 8th, we end up with a situation where small arms are not less efficient against these units (point per point.)

Most of these guys just need another wound (usually putting to w3) to regain their lost role. This will also introduce targeting choices for high D weapons between elite infantry and vehicles.

Most of us will remember the silliness of Nob bikers and Paladin armies in 5th where being W2 and having those whacky wound allocation rules made them really ridiculous. Those lists were too powerful. But there was something to those hard to kill units. It just shouldn't be quite that bad. But with 8th's wound and D system, it wouldn't be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/08 06:14:57


Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne




*cracks knuckles*

Most Tyranid monstrous creatures.

Only 2 in the codex have a invun, Hive Tyrant (good unit!) or Maelceptor (Literally never seen it fielded. Ever.)

Our toughness is very meh and our armour saves are poor to middling (very common to have 4+ on MC's, and our only 2+ save unit the tyrannofex lost it in 8th and our option to take it on Hive Tyrants is gone aswell)

We just need more wounds or toughness to make up for lack of invun saves because lists are designed to deal with 24W T8 5++ knights so what hope does our non invun T7/T8 14W 3+ Mc's have?
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 AnomanderRake wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Karol wrote:
I wouldnt know where to start.


Well some dexes have units that need improving, and other dexes just need improvements overall.

Probably the worst exemple out of the dex therefore?


It does depend some on why it's the worst unit in the book. The reasons GK Purgators are kind of crap are intimately tied into the reasons why GK in general are kind of crap (forced to buy expensive melee weapons with only 1 Attack, forced to be psykers for little to no practical gain, Tactical Marine statline), for instance.


purgators aren't the worse people take them naked, to get detachments. Really bad stuff is something like a GK techmarine, costs more then a loyalist one, although one has to say GW did cut his cost in half comparing to what was in the codex originaly, but he doesn't have the thunder cannon option. Would he be better with it? of course, would it make GK good, because of the change, I have my doubts. On the other hand something like interceptors, probably one of best GK units, could really be army making, if it had some extra rule support. Or at least had characters that could go with it, without being shot to bits for being over 9wounds.

And then there is selfish reasons, I would really like for either GK termintors or paladins to be real good. Doesn't have to be centurion or scout dreadnought good, but some synergy rules, maybe buffing characters that are near them or getting buffed if there are characters near them. But again this is me, being selfish and not picking worse GK unit to fix.
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





So,let's see:

CSM:
Spoiler:
All CSM daemonunits, even the obliterator.
The CSM daemon infantry, (e.g Possesed, Mutilator, obliterator and Daemonprince) all of them are comparatively overpriced, in the case of possesed also a beatstick unit in a beatstick heavy codex, with BS SWING abilities that eat CP and support units by a rate of 2:1 (2 pts fr support for 1 pts of Possesed.) Get rid of the stupid swingy ness or allow them to fight twice or just get cheaper, there is no point ever else to field them because even regular CSM are better in melee then they are 1/3rd of the time for a lot less points) Mutliator and obliterator, too swingy and too pricey, (except the obliterator) , require too much support generally to be worth it to be fielded. Even Obliterators eat too much support points often.
The csm daemonprince also is just worse for reasons unknown compared to TS and DG ones.

MoP: Honestly, just a worse sorcerer, HAS NO MOBILITY; so he can't even accompany Possesed due to beeing outrun. Also only exists for one spell seemingly, HURRAY. Make him cheaper and give him a mobility option like bike or jumppack (not happening thanks GW for no models no rules). Especially agitating due to the fact that he SHOULD be one of the key daemonkin archetype support HQ is just wasted. Especially when a sorcerer has just a whole lot better and more usefull buffs to offer.

Daemonengnies:
Where to begin.
Pays price as if 3+ bs / ws capability. Pays for the daemontag which 75% of the time is not handy. (the 5++ is nice, but not at the pricetag that it get's one).
Further, the Hybrid role of many of the Engines makes them worse (defiler bc f.e.) So either adapt and count all ranged weapons as assault (venomcrawler says hello) or allow for significantly more rnged options.
Additionnally No traits, equals bad but that is a CSM issue overall soooooo.

these 3 points above are the Daemonengine curse and the reason why some of the most amazing models rarely see the table.

Forgefiend especially, is just overpriced for what he is and requires more or less constant babysitting.
Venomcrawler.Too pricey, the ranged weapon depening upon strength doesn't make it better.

The lord discordant, OK he is special as in he doesn't suffer the Daemonengine curse.
HOWEVER; He fails at what he should've been doing according to GW's Design of him, making other daemonengines viable. Especially the shootier ones. Because you are not going to sit a Discordant around a bunch of defielers,, that's a waste of points.
Instead, splitt off the Additional +1 for shooting from his aura and give that the warpsmith.
There, ATLEAST now you can run the shooty and the meeleey Daemonengines a bit better with competetn HQ support and not pay out of the nose for it.



R&H
Spoiler:

For an Army that should be and was designed around their troops beeing customizable and adaptable according to it's Demagogue it sure as hell isn't what it was once.

Covenants should be reimplemented as an buyable upgrade for the squad champions. Not this moronical system now, further fix the following covenants: (Khorne, allways S4, Nurgle a 6+++ that is stackable with other FNP abilities see Heretek magus.)

First the HQ section:
Commander--> rename him into Demagogue, reimplement Demagogue devotions (traits for points that affected and allowed certain upgrades for squads, was btw also more balanced then the bs we have now with traits......) Buyable 4+ SV. You want Marauders? better not give out a covenant to the demagogue. You want plague zombies, you mark him nurgle.

Malefic lord: Cut the price in half again. So that he is actually back at the level of the superior AM counterpart, especially considering the worse discipline he is forced into. Buyable 4 + SV and actual weaponry options

Rogue Psycher coven: Should get option to be split up in 5 or work as a squad for more powerfull casting effects. Also 100 pts is a bit much for unequiped unarmored wierdos with headaches.

Elites:
Disciples and command desciples get SV 4+, no i don't want them for 5 pts like Veterans, they aren't they are the elite of the elite the hard core of a R&H army supposedly, the political /religious arm of the army.

Plague ogryns, adapt their shower of bile rule so that they not start a chain detonation through theeir own because GW couldn't even be bothered to fix that rule......... (YES RAW THEY DETONATE AND DETONATE AND DETONATE THEMSELVES, GREAT ISN'T IT!)

Troops:

Reimplement Plague zombies as unlocked option if the Demagogue is Covenant of nurgle follower.

Reimplement Rengeade veterans for 5 pts (ws 3+ instead of their AM counterpart with BS 3+)

Fixing Militia: 3 pts. Buys flat priced upgrades, you want to get rid of MSU and fight against a horde that actually needs morale management,because that is what is critical about the lost and the damned. Militia training, Flak armour, etc. Make them the differing and customizable unit they were, make them back into the sould of a R&H army, that could represent Lobotomized Fabric workers, Fanatical crusaders, the Conscript blob of dooom or real traitorguard.... Not this disgusting pile of that they are now!

Mutants: Allow a full melee equipment, (eg brutal assault weapon get's added) 3 pts.

R&H cultists: just get rid of them, Militia and their customizability cover more then enough, no need for another subpar version of a subpar unit. (yes R&H cultists are worse then CSM cultists are now, for reasons unknown)



Orkz
Spoiler:
why does a warboss not have an invulnerable?

fix bloody kanz.

And yes i am a skarboy, i member when boyz were brown and or SA /SS jokes, i member when they had bs 4+....

BTW fix skarboyz and reimplement panzaboyz /Ard boyz as a seperate entry.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/08 09:39:02


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
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France

 Kanluwen wrote:
 godardc wrote:

That makes no sense why would they be equiped differently ? They are just raw recruits so being less competent is somehow logical but they have to have the same gear

If you want the fluff reason?
It's because "Conscripts" covers everything from locally sourced recruits to actual Guardsmen undergoing their indoctrination/training.
Generally, they get a flak vest rather than the whole 'suit' of armor(hence the lesser save) and whatever weapons can be locally sourced.

Mechanically, it allows for a rework of the whole damn lasgun finally. Plus, tired of whining about Conscripts being "too good!".


Then call them militia of something

   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





 godardc wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 godardc wrote:

That makes no sense why would they be equiped differently ? They are just raw recruits so being less competent is somehow logical but they have to have the same gear

If you want the fluff reason?
It's because "Conscripts" covers everything from locally sourced recruits to actual Guardsmen undergoing their indoctrination/training.
Generally, they get a flak vest rather than the whole 'suit' of armor(hence the lesser save) and whatever weapons can be locally sourced.

Mechanically, it allows for a rework of the whole damn lasgun finally. Plus, tired of whining about Conscripts being "too good!".


Then call them militia of something


Militia is how GW refers to standard infantry of R&H....

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Executing Exarch





London, UK

Howling Banshees and/or the less seen aspects in the Eldar book.

Psychic Awakening was a half-assed job and just added to the rules bloat in the game and didn't add meaningful changes to the units that were struggling.

5000 Fir Farillecassion Eldar W/L/D 4th Ed Codex - 14/7/1 6th Ed Codex - 9/1/0 7th Ed Codex - 4/1/1 8th Ed Codex - 17/6/2
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Longtime Dakkanaut




What if foot eldar all got something like a flat 3" buff to movment and charge?

exept for the homos and wrecks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/08 10:19:38


 
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





Karol wrote:
What if foot eldar all got something like a flat 3" buff to movment and charge?

exept for the homos and wrecks.


That would not solve the issues for beeing weak Melee aspects (too few attacks with s3 suck believe me and i run a horde of S3 /4 melee, which can take losses what eldar can't)

And the shooty aspects wouldn't want to go to melee for obvious reasons.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Howling Banshees and/or the less seen aspects in the Eldar book.

Psychic Awakening was a half-assed job and just added to the rules bloat in the game and didn't add meaningful changes to the units that were struggling.


Welcome to vigilus 3 eerrrrmrm i meant PA.
Also welcome to the club, GW couldn't even be bothered to not mark bind the Renegade traits for CSM soo i am not surprised that it is basically worthless.
Atleast you got your own build a trat rules , unlike us....

ok that also doesn't really help does it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/08 10:22:49


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Executing Exarch





London, UK

Unfortunately just movement buffs don't affect the core issues with the aspect warriors in general. They're meant to fit a niche and with the editions changing they weren't changed to keep up with them so they feel like legacy units at this point.

5000 Fir Farillecassion Eldar W/L/D 4th Ed Codex - 14/7/1 6th Ed Codex - 9/1/0 7th Ed Codex - 4/1/1 8th Ed Codex - 17/6/2
2000 Hive Fleet Zenith
Excavating eBay: My blog of eBay finds and the pile of shame!
Instagram, follow if you dare!
 
   
Made in fr
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor





France

Not Online!!! wrote:
 godardc wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 godardc wrote:

That makes no sense why would they be equiped differently ? They are just raw recruits so being less competent is somehow logical but they have to have the same gear

If you want the fluff reason?
It's because "Conscripts" covers everything from locally sourced recruits to actual Guardsmen undergoing their indoctrination/training.
Generally, they get a flak vest rather than the whole 'suit' of armor(hence the lesser save) and whatever weapons can be locally sourced.

Mechanically, it allows for a rework of the whole damn lasgun finally. Plus, tired of whining about Conscripts being "too good!".


Then call them militia of something


Militia is how GW refers to standard infantry of R&H....


Yes exactly that's why I proposed militia: because 6+ and autogun instead of 5+ and lasgun look pretty much the same. Imperial Militia if you prefer.

   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





 godardc wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 godardc wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 godardc wrote:

That makes no sense why would they be equiped differently ? They are just raw recruits so being less competent is somehow logical but they have to have the same gear

If you want the fluff reason?
It's because "Conscripts" covers everything from locally sourced recruits to actual Guardsmen undergoing their indoctrination/training.
Generally, they get a flak vest rather than the whole 'suit' of armor(hence the lesser save) and whatever weapons can be locally sourced.

Mechanically, it allows for a rework of the whole damn lasgun finally. Plus, tired of whining about Conscripts being "too good!".


Then call them militia of something


Militia is how GW refers to standard infantry of R&H....


Yes exactly that's why I proposed militia: because 6+ and autogun instead of 5+ and lasgun look pretty much the same. Imperial Militia if you prefer.


No. Militia also still pays 4 ppm.
So yes i am opposed to such a change.
Further not all of these units use Autoguns, because they don't have too thanks to the lasgun.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Morale
Character rules
Stratagems
Orks
Necrons
Vehicles
Weapon Balance
Fall Back
Keywords not really having that much of an impact even though they are supposed to be important.

Just from the top of my head.

Edit : Oh, you mean units. Sorry, misread.
In that case

- Squigbuggy
---Useless. There is no real niche for it in an ork list. Its meant to provide long range fire support, but mech guns are better than that, its expensive, the mine is useless, and it doesn't have support abilities.
Here's how I would improve it:
Give it indirect fire, to give it more of a niche and to represent squigs getting lobbed out and going after targets
Give it ammo types that provide buffs, like smoke squigs (provides cover) or beer squigs (buffs morale and offense)
Allow the mine to move (because its a squig, which I'm assuming still has legs)

- Snazzwagon
--So have a unit that's meant to be a harassment / kamikaze type light vehicle, but its expensive for its role and damage output, and it has variable explosion distance which counteracts its improved explosion chance
Reduce cost to 70-80 and increase explosion radius to 6"

-Burnaboyz
-- Just useless. Needs to be D6 on the flamers.

- Deathmarks
-- Needs their marking ability back so they can actually have a good chance of assassination before dying.

- Flayed Ones
-- Just needs to be cheaper, really.

- Monolith

- Destroyer Lord
-- More attacks, 2+ WS and an invul. Its buff would be fine if destroyers could also take melee weapons. Having a unit that wants to be in combat buff a unit that wants to shoot feels weird.
That or allow the Destroyer lord to give a minor buff to non-Destroyers, but a strong buff to Destroyers.

-All necron HQ in general
-- Need better auras. Necron buff ranges are really short compared to other factions.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/11/08 12:21:41


What I have
~4100
~1660
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Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 godardc wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 godardc wrote:

That makes no sense why would they be equiped differently ? They are just raw recruits so being less competent is somehow logical but they have to have the same gear

If you want the fluff reason?
It's because "Conscripts" covers everything from locally sourced recruits to actual Guardsmen undergoing their indoctrination/training.
Generally, they get a flak vest rather than the whole 'suit' of armor(hence the lesser save) and whatever weapons can be locally sourced.

Mechanically, it allows for a rework of the whole damn lasgun finally. Plus, tired of whining about Conscripts being "too good!".


Then call them militia of something

Why?

That's what Conscripts are for the Guard book's purposes.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Unfortunately just movement buffs don't affect the core issues with the aspect warriors in general. They're meant to fit a niche and with the editions changing they weren't changed to keep up with them so they feel like legacy units at this point.


agreed. as I said this is an issue that impactds more then just eldar melee units. a lot of the basic basic old time melee units, like the eldar ones, assault marines etc, all have the same problem, too few attacks with weapons that just don't have sufficant oomph.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 Karhedron wrote:
The Avatar of Khaine. Back in 2nd edition, this guy could go toe-to-toe with a Bloodthirster! I would like to see him get a new kit on par with the plastic greater Daemons and stats to match.


I kind of prefer him in his current form tbh. He's got similar damage output to bloodthirsters, but lower wounds. If a bloodthirster charges him, with average rolls he actually kills it - it takes him down to 1 wound, he deals 8.5 damage to it, then he goes first on his turn and finishes it off.
   
Made in cz
Mysterious Techpriest






Fortress world of Ostrakan

Conscripts - Remove regimental bonuses but make them still able to take orders, -1 point cost, they lose double the models from failed morale, perhaps?

Veterans - Give us back the camo cloaks and carapace armor. The elite slot is not that big deal, though, at least for me.

Commissars - They should have a bigger impact on morale.

Pretty much every FW model the IG has, especially flyers and superheavies. - They are all outdated and generally overcosted / too weak.

Chimera - Point reduction

HW squad (not team) - +1 armor or invulnerable or -1 to hit when they remain stationary

Leman Russ Vanquisher - Supposed to be a dedicated tank killer. Actually the worst variant to shoot tanks with.


Neutran Panzergrenadiers, Ostrakan Skitarii Legions, Order of the Silver Hand
My fan-lore: Europan Planetary federation. Hot topic: Help with Minotaurs chapter Killteam






 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

Literally the whole reason we have "Conscript Platoons" now is because they wanted to carry over the "Hive Gang Militia" from the Armageddon book.

We do not need, nor should any Guard player want them to be able to take Orders or be equipped even remotely similar to Guardsmen.
   
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Only the one change I can think of; make Hotshot Lasguns S4 - they are meant to be designed to deal with power armour and wounding on 5s is dumb. I'd be happy if they reduced the AP to balance them out a bit.
   
Made in us
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foisty-moisty wrote:
Only the one change I can think of; make Hotshot Lasguns S4 - they are meant to be designed to deal with power armour and wounding on 5s is dumb. I'd be happy if they reduced the AP to balance them out a bit.


You know that increasing the strength and reducing the AP would make them...the same, right?
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Philadelphia

 Hawky wrote:
Conscripts - Remove regimental bonuses but make them still able to take orders, -1 point cost, they lose double the models from failed morale, perhaps?

Veterans - Give us back the camo cloaks and carapace armor. The elite slot is not that big deal, though, at least for me.

Commissars - They should have a bigger impact on morale.

Pretty much every FW model the IG has, especially flyers and superheavies. - They are all outdated and generally overcosted / too weak.

Chimera - Point reduction

HW squad (not team) - +1 armor or invulnerable or -1 to hit when they remain stationary

Leman Russ Vanquisher - Supposed to be a dedicated tank killer. Actually the worst variant to shoot tanks with.
3


as someone who bought a IG army and hasnt built it in 2 years.... yeah I would like these exact changes

   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





I would 100% accept Conscripts at 3 points if they did not count as <Regiment> models.

They would not receive orders, nor certain bonuses, but would still be affected by Commissars and Ministorum Priests as those buffs are generically "astra militarum". They would not receive regiment bonuses, just as other analogous units in other codexes like Gretchin do not.

You still get a HELL of a deal on a Conscript as opposed to a Gretchin - twice the firepower, +1 toughness, 5+ save, access to better morale and offense buffs compared to the two flavors of runtherds.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



London

the_scotsman wrote:
I would 100% accept Conscripts at 3 points if they did not count as <Regiment> models.

They would not receive orders, nor certain bonuses, but would still be affected by Commissars and Ministorum Priests as those buffs are generically "astra militarum". They would not receive regiment bonuses, just as other analogous units in other codexes like Gretchin do not.

You still get a HELL of a deal on a Conscript as opposed to a Gretchin - twice the firepower, +1 toughness, 5+ save, access to better morale and offense buffs compared to the two flavors of runtherds.


I think being able to field massive ground denial in the form of 3 point models is a bit much - better to have them as slightly better incarnations of their current selves. So probably need the same WS/BS as their parent regiment, but trade orders and on a 4+ and LD 3 points lower than a sergeant for the ability to field large units?
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






foisty-moisty wrote:
Only the one change I can think of; make Hotshot Lasguns S4 - they are meant to be designed to deal with power armour and wounding on 5s is dumb. I'd be happy if they reduced the AP to balance them out a bit.


A lot of weapons lost their purpose in the change from the all or nothing AP to the armor reducing system. Combine that with the changes to cover saves and it really made a lot of weapons effectively redundant.

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The Last Chancer Who Survived




On moon miranda.

To be fair, the Hotshot lasgun has never worked terribly well. Ideally they'd be something like assault 3 18" (their AP or cost could be adjusted), but the 18" range coupled with rapid fire has basically ensured that stormtroopers only ever really function as min sized one-shot suicide units.

Another unit to talk about is the Deathstrike. This is a unit that really doesn't fit a tabletop game like 40k, it really should more be a mission objective device than a tactical battlefield unit. However, if it's going to be hamfisted into that role, it needs to be functional, and its just not. A one-shot variable number of mortal wounds (that wont outright kill anything either) that goes off randomly at some point in the middle of the game is just not a functional game piece. If it's going to be that unpredictable and vulnerable, with a single shot and at the cost of a battle tank, it better be capable of trivially greasing a Knight or or large group of several tough infantry units, it has to be a game changer, and at this point its not.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

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The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




why not give them two modes of fire, would that help? a higher AP single shot, and a more dakka shorter range one.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 Vaktathi wrote:
To be fair, the Hotshot lasgun has never worked terribly well. Ideally they'd be something like assault 3 18" (their AP or cost could be adjusted), but the 18" range coupled with rapid fire has basically ensured that stormtroopers only ever really function as min sized one-shot suicide units.

Yup. It's why I've been pushing for the Assault profile instead.

Another unit to talk about is the Deathstrike. This is a unit that really doesn't fit a tabletop game like 40k, it really should more be a mission objective device than a tactical battlefield unit. However, if it's going to be hamfisted into that role, it needs to be functional, and its just not. A one-shot variable number of mortal wounds (that wont outright kill anything either) that goes off randomly at some point in the middle of the game is just not a functional game piece. If it's going to be that unpredictable and vulnerable, with a single shot and at the cost of a battle tank, it better be capable of trivially greasing a Knight or or large group of several tough infantry units, it has to be a game changer, and at this point its not.

Honestly, it would be better served as a terrain piece of some sort--or benefit from having Master of Ordnances on the field or something. There's a lot that can be done to make it work(because if we go with 'realistics' for stuff, we shouldn't see named characters yadda yadda yadda).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'd say Custodes have largely lost their place as a genuine elite army with the updates to Marines. They don't have the resilience or damage output to compete for the points anymore.
   
 
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