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Considering again the BSF traitor guard, having atleast 2 female squad members, (i don't judge the gasmask wearers) and they are in essence Cadian sprues with carapace, i'd rekon if Cadians ever get updated then i wouldn't be surprised.

 skchsan wrote:
I'd welcome a "true scale" infantry squad and put them on same height as tau.

Guardsmen are too big - they're the same height as "crab legged" old marines.

Indeed...

A new kit would be nice with a slight variation of torso lengths, leg lengths and arm thicknesses.

Women in body armour are fairly indistinguishable from men for the most part, you get bigger variance between different nationalities and so I think head swaps are fine. That slight variation in sizes though means I could build a guardsman to be taller than the other with the longest legs and torso, or indeed shorter or just average them out. That with head swaps would make for a more varied lineup.

Am not sure how it is in UK. But here if you put 10 people in trainting gear, all above the age of 15, then they make look the same on the outside only technicly. Because all boys are going to be a head or more taller. center mass point is going to be in different spot too.

Karol wrote:
Am not sure how it is in UK. But here if you put 10 people in trainting gear, all above the age of 15, then they make look the same on the outside only technicly. Because all boys are going to be a head or more taller. center mass point is going to be in different spot too.

Here in the UK it will often be a joint multinational force. A bunch of short Frenchmen from the countryside will be next to a bunch of tall Swedes, with the Swedish women standing taller than the French men, and the Brits will be clustered in their roughly 5'10" height (UK average slightly lower at 5' 9"), up from 5' 7" in WW1 (with special bantam units for soldiers under 5'3") with on average taller officers and obviously a bunch of 6'+ guardsmen in bearskins looking even bigger (minimum height requirement today is 4'10" for the British army but the Guards prefers tall men) - though any Gurkha's joining in will be on average 5'3".

Scatter into that a bunch of women who do tend to be shorter than their male national counterparts - on average - but you still have then fitting into that 18"+ variation shown by the male soldiers, shortest to tallest, with some women from certain groups towering over men from others.

Considering the guard recruit from entire planets and the Imperium is characterised by gross inequality that results historically in wide height variations and you can easily make mixed units...

So long as they're not delineated by Chest Zeppelins as so many other ranges do, I'm in.

So far GW's female models have been pretty damned decent. Identifiably wimmins, but without Gert Stonkers.

I would love to see new kits for Guard that include female models. Right now I am just making do with Cadians and Scions with headswaps. The only issue is that a new kit will be infinity dollars for 10 models, and suddenly trying to build anything close to a sizable infantry force for Guard will be extremely expensive.

a_typical_hero wrote:
I disagree with the OP.

I've seen conversions where the head was swapped and it just does not look right next to male guardsmen. The chest was the same (realistically they should not have such a defined chest as the SoB models show), so that could of course make a bit more of a difference, but for me the arms stood out as too bulky.

That's nothing to do with having women's heads and all to do with the terrible proportions of many of these older kits.

The arms are way too bulky for male heads as well, but you're more used to that due to it being the norm so it doesn't stand out.

@OP, if I may ask, what do you mean exactly when you say "female torsos"?

Pyroalchi wrote:

I'll be honest, while I'd like to see female Guardsmen, almost all of the attempts I've seen have been cheesecake-y over-sexualized takes. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but what exactly would you expect to be different about the torsos? I mean, under body armor, you literally can't tell the difference, so unless there's obvious boobplate (a la Sisters) I'd expect 'female' torsos to be the same as 'male' ones.

Victoria Miniatures produces some models that can be taken seriously:
https://victoriaminiatures.com/collections/character-miniatures/products/copy-of-female-commissar-annaka-sage

As you can see the Torso is still flak, but a little bit slimmer, as are the arms and legs (which are also a wee bit shorter). I also got the impression, that their Guardswoman are realistically a little bit shorter overall compared to the males. All in all I think this example shows that it would be possible to create not over-sexualized Guardswomen

Not that much shorter, you have to look for it for the most part.
The other thing is that VM models aren't heroic scale for people who need that sort of thing.

Personally I love them. Most of the stuff is mix and match, so it's easy to make custom regiments.

 Mmmpi wrote:

Not that much shorter, you have to look for it for the most part.
The other thing is that VM models aren't heroic scale for people who need that sort of thing.

Personally I love them. Most of the stuff is mix and match, so it's easy to make custom regiments.

Anvil are another that let you mix and match. they have started attending events with trays of loose model bits and you get to make your own custom figure. Most were making barbarian, guy with gun, bomb, etc. Honestly with all those bits how could I not make a Sikh guardsman sitting on a gun carriage with his feet up on an ammo box having a drink and watching the enemy through his bino's?

I don’t feel any need for female guardsmen

The Deer Hunter wrote:
I don’t feel any need for female guardsmen

I feel there is a great need for it. Its a really good way to show different human population and culture without having to go in depth.

 catbarf wrote:

-Guardsman- wrote:
Say, 10 identical torsoes and 2x5 heads

I'll be honest, while I'd like to see female Guardsmen, almost all of the attempts I've seen have been cheesecake-y over-sexualized takes. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but what exactly would you expect to be different about the torsos? I mean, under body armor, you literally can't tell the difference, so unless there's obvious boobplate (a la Sisters) I'd expect 'female' torsos to be the same as 'male' ones.

The BSF models do a good job of showing just how subtle the difference is between a male and female soldier in uniform, with a helmet, under armor. Sisters are stylistically designed to exaggerate their femininity in a way that is unfitting for Guard IMO.

Exactly. Once you put on the helmet, it's just a Cadian with big tits just to say "look what we did!!! Female guard like you wanted!!!:

If GW ever bothers to do this, they need to keep female parts optional. GW more or less can't win with this issue anyway.

1) They make women "too female" with large busts or big hips. This becomes "sexist and demeaning!", etc. etc. etc.

2) They make 2/10 models in the Imperial Guard dedicated female sculpts. Well then you upset all of the players who don't have females features in their Guard regiments.

3) If they don't make the female miniatures obviously female (notably boobs/hips/build...) then people decry GW for not taking enough effort.

It's just a source of nonsense that is barely worth GW getting involved in. You want some female Guardsman, go buy some Statuesque Miniatures heads and carry on. So much easier than waiting for GW to get around to it.

 Elbows wrote:
If GW ever bothers to do this, they need to keep female parts optional. GW more or less can't win with this issue anyway.

1) They make women "too female" with large busts or big hips. This becomes "sexist and demeaning!", etc. etc. etc.

2) They make 2/10 models in the Imperial Guard dedicated female sculpts. Well then you upset all of the players who don't have females features in their Guard regiments.

3) If they don't make the female miniatures obviously female (notably boobs/hips/build...) then people decry GW for not taking enough effort.

It's just a source of nonsense that is barely worth GW getting involved in. You want some female Guardsman, go buy some Statuesque Miniatures heads and carry on. So much easier than waiting for GW to get around to it.

Just do a separate box, and some unique HQ. Enough bits for people to get some mileage out of them for Conversions. Its not that hard For anyone but GW.
This is more than just minis as well, sometimes its just keep a healthy presence within the stories and worlds they create.
Sometimes they do it well, Sometimes they tend to to stay in that kinda dumb space.

 Elbows wrote:
If GW ever bothers to do this, they need to keep female parts optional. GW more or less can't win with this issue anyway.

1) They make women "too female" with large busts or big hips. This becomes "sexist and demeaning!", etc. etc. etc.

2) They make 2/10 models in the Imperial Guard dedicated female sculpts. Well then you upset all of the players who don't have females features in their Guard regiments.

3) If they don't make the female miniatures obviously female (notably boobs/hips/build...) then people decry GW for not taking enough effort.

It's just a source of nonsense that is barely worth GW getting involved in. You want some female Guardsman, go buy some Statuesque Miniatures heads and carry on. So much easier than waiting for GW to get around to it.

Personally I would rather have a range that reflects the lore and badly made only male Cadians does not in any way do this.

 Elbows wrote:
If GW ever bothers to do this, they need to keep female parts optional. GW more or less can't win with this issue anyway.

1) They make women "too female" with large busts or big hips. This becomes "sexist and demeaning!", etc. etc. etc.

2) They make 2/10 models in the Imperial Guard dedicated female sculpts. Well then you upset all of the players who don't have females features in their Guard regiments.

3) If they don't make the female miniatures obviously female (notably boobs/hips/build...) then people decry GW for not taking enough effort.

It's just a source of nonsense that is barely worth GW getting involved in. You want some female Guardsman, go buy some Statuesque Miniatures heads and carry on. So much easier than waiting for GW to get around to it.

Victoria miniatures has already shown how to do female guard well, GW can do this too. Just put couple of females in each box. And if some people are upset about that, they should be ignored. Or they can just buy more models and throw away the female sculpts. *shrug*

Yeah, some diversity would be nice to reflect the unholy amount of worlds in the Imperium.
I highly doubt the Imperium cares what race or sex you are so long as you can hold a las-gun in the AM/IG.

Victoria miniatures appear to be the only good choice from what I could see.

You know, I could see a few "Sisters of Battle" drop-outs going into AM/IG.
Read a good series of books on the Arbites and that as well is a good mix.
Inquisition has a bit of a mix as well.
Considering the amount of genetic engineering involved with Space Marines they could already be a mix and you would probably have no way of knowing.
Mechanicus, well, the flesh is rather irrelevant.
I know for a fact that there is a mix of Imperial Knight pilots of either sex so that is helpful.

I think all the above states the case that the "fluff" has it all there, it just needs the models to follow suit.

 Crimson wrote:
And if some people are upset about that, they should be ignored. Or they can just buy more models and throw away the female sculpts. *shrug*

Exactly how I feel about the issue. If some neckbeard somewhere can't handle having a few female models in his army, that's really his problem, not GW's.

I know some older players who are getting their daughters into 40k, and I think that's great. GW should strive to broaden their appeal, not pander to an ever-narrowing demographic.

 Elbows wrote:
3) If they don't make the female miniatures obviously female (notably boobs/hips/build...) then people decry GW for not taking enough effort.

LOL no. If they don't make the female minis busty, complaints will rather be along the lines of "waaaah, PC culture, how dare they make women I can't j**k off to!". And honestly, I couldn't care less what people who own an anime body pillow think about GW miniatures. Female minis should, at the very least, look realistically dressed for battle. And, yes, that will be rather unfeminine: no cleavage, no form-fitting pants, short hair. Players need to deal with it.


.

You guys just proved my point...

 Elbows wrote:
You guys just proved my point...

And yet noone complained about the BSF bunch?
Soo.
As it turns out GW can win with that

LOL no. If they don't make the female minis busty, complaints will rather be along the lines of "waaaah, PC culture, how dare they make women I can't j**k off to!". And honestly, I couldn't care less what people who own an anime body pillow think about GW miniatures. Female minis should, at the very least, look realistically dressed for battle. And, yes, that will be rather unfeminine: no cleavage, no form-fitting pants, short hair. Players need to deal with it.

non of the male models that GW makes look relistic, or if they could function on the battlefield. You could get a head shorter models that look the same as the head taller ones, and call the smaller ones female, but why do that? I would be good for hidding out of LoS, but that is more or less it.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

a_typical_hero wrote:
I disagree with the OP.

I've seen conversions where the head was swapped and it just does not look right next to male guardsmen. The chest was the same (realistically they should not have such a defined chest as the SoB models show), so that could of course make a bit more of a difference, but for me the arms stood out as too bulky.

That's nothing to do with having women's heads and all to do with the terrible proportions of many of these older kits.

The arms are way too bulky for male heads as well, but you're more used to that due to it being the norm so it doesn't stand out.

I would argue that actually it's a problem with how you both expect women to be represented on a battlefield.

As mentioned, there is little difference bulk-wise between a male and a female in armour. Even out of armour, it only becomes a problem if you expect all the women you encounter to look like Barbie.

Probably the most famous female soldier of modern-ish times, Lyudmila Mikhailovna Pavlichenko, looked like she could have played front-row for Wigan/was built like a linebacker. And then there's Bob, which is short for Kate.

Probably the most famous female soldier of modern-ish times, Lyudmila Mikhailovna Pavlichenko, looked like she could have played front-row for Wigan/was built like a linebacker. And then there's Bob, which is short for Kate.

No she wasn't, she wasn't pretty, but most people patched up after mortar shells blowing on top of them. Look at the pictures from the sniper school in Kiev, the dudes at the school were way more, then a head taller then head. And not just because she never got to grow big after the malnutrition, she suffered as a child.

Cool. So what?

We're talking about a cinematic universe, set 38,000 years in the future and in which green-skinned aliens, space elves and daemons are all fact.

Obviously a soldier presenting as female who is the same height as one that presents as male is a suspension of disbelief too far, if we simply assume that your half-baked ideas about height are correct.

Muh fragile masculinity.

EDIT - FWIW, being tall is not necessarily a good thing if you play on the front-row. They tend to be short and stocky. Like Lady Death.

-Guardsman- wrote:

LOL no. If they don't make the female minis busty, complaints will rather be along the lines of "waaaah, PC culture, how dare they make women I can't j**k off to!". And honestly, I couldn't care less what people who own an anime body pillow think about GW miniatures. Female minis should, at the very least, look realistically dressed for battle. And, yes, that will be rather unfeminine: no cleavage, no form-fitting pants, short hair. Players need to deal with it.


.

I sure need realism with my chainsaw sword.

 Elbows wrote:
3) If they don't make the female miniatures obviously female (notably boobs/hips/build...) then people decry GW for not taking enough effort.

Who would do that? I'm not asking because I want to make them "disappear" I'm just curious .

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I sure need realism with my chainsaw sword.

Not realism. Grittiness. Warriors should look like warriors, not fashion models
But honestly, GW is doing diversity just right these days, on about all their new release. All the new female kits, even those light on clothes and armor (like the AoS chaos warband) still look like mean fighters rather than fashion model. And they've been including more and more varied skintones too!

With all the female models out there both of GW and not of female warriors that are clearly women without being sexualized I cant understand how peopke still discuss about this. It has been proven to be a non issue.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Not realism. Grittiness. Warriors should look like warriors, not fashion models

Unless we want them to be fat, then they shouldn't look like warriors.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
But honestly, GW is doing diversity just right these days, on about all their new release. All the new female kits, even those light on clothes and armor (like the AoS chaos warband) still look like mean fighters rather than fashion model. And they've been including more and more varied skintones too!

I mean their faces don't look like a foot anymore, so there's that improvement for sure.

Ill echo what some people have said about AoS. They've done some pretty good work with Warcry, Stormcasts and other factions. It's actually brought me back to the hobby and my partner in as well who has never been part of this hobby before.

I'd also like to pitch in the argument that the new House Escher plastics are a solid range of body representation that with the right equipment and some military hair/helmets could turn out some perfect guardswomen. I'm not saying they work for conversions because the "flak armor" is not really IG/AM type flak armor. But what I'm saying is they did a good job of making House Escher have builds reflecting a diverse group of women. Tall and short, bulky and thin. They all look like people. People that fight for their lives but also enjoy a cheesy grox burger.

GW is capable, and I think eventually we'll see plastic guardswomen, the only real question is "How much longer do we have to wait?"

And it's not all bad because there are 3rd parties that kick out some awesome looking guardswomen on the side while we wait.