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Actually tyranids are pretty gore free as models. There's only one or two that have any actual dismembered bodies and guts on show - all the rest are pretty clean of any core details. The Haruspex gets closest with its exposed mouth, however there isn't any gore on there just the fleshy bits of tyranid. The Malceptor might be the most gory as its standing over a torn apart marine - others might hold a marine helmet and such. So in general whilst they are most certainily bloody and gory in the lore; in the game itself they can be shiny clean neat dinosaur space bug lizard insect things.
You're not thinking big enough For one, an arch heretek does not need human or daemons, I present to you the Legio Cybernetica.
In other words, there are good old regular nuts and bolts robots in 40k as well, not just human hybrids or black magic robots. And did you look at Anacharis Scoria ?
A "regular" arch heretek could be a borderline walking factory, nevermind a theoretical "daemon"engined heretek.
Which brings me back to the point of making bullets. That argument wasn't really about bullets, it was meant more conceptual.
If you can construct a machine that ends up making bullets out of nothing....well what's to stop you from making a machine that makes whatever raw material you want? Essentially being able to set up camp anywhere you want.
Infinite resources, even if it takes a while to produce a significant amount. Being functionally immortal, even without considering a potential ascension, with infinite resources is one hell of an argument for being self sufficient.
Daemons being an essentially infinite resource that is available anywhere is just the cherry on the cake.
Also, nobody ever said that daemons and by extension their gods are willingly being stuck into toasters. Plus there are ways to protect yourself against corruption.
You don't need to ally with chaos to use daemons. Just ask any radical inquisitor or the iluminati.
So yea, a heretek is perfectly capable of creating an army of non living/sentient murder robots without any help if given enough time and material. Or mess with AI, which is still a spectrum after all ( mostly different shades "how soon will my creation kill me" but hey, that's 40k for ya.
Although yes, he will need a ship to get there, but again, could be piloted by robots
Since we're talking potentials and speculation, there really isn't any reason that the dark mechanicum couldn't rival Necrons in virtually any endeavor. Of course being around for literal aeons has a way of giving you a different perspective on things that a heretek could only dream of.
They wouldn't be able to rival them using conventional tech, but by adding warp tech into the mix they would be able to achieve the same results, though perhaps more volatile and dangerous to the user.
What about a decimator maniple,the model has no skulls on it, combines alien and chaos Tech and has an eerie look to it.
Beyond the fact that it also has awesome lore.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/26 22:41:34
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Decimator Daemonengine:
It's one of the coolest things from FW.
I own one, should be somewhere in my blog:
Here's the conept art, if you want i can give you a description from IA13.
Or even take some pictures of mine if you'd want.
the TL: DR version of the decimator is:
Nigh indestructable, selfworking AI, supposedly of daemonic nature altough unverified (could be Chaos AI) HIRED by certain warlords, using alien+ dark mech .
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, Khorne doesn't hate warpsmiths, Khorne hates psykers, Warpsmiths are not psykers infact they require psyker help sometimes but they themselves aren't.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/11/27 09:55:35
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
OOOH Good idea. If i go into real WH40K I might just do that.
Wait, what? This is just for what faction to play in the video games?
Did anyone ever say you maybe worry about this too much? Deliberating over spending vast sums on an army is one thing, but for a video game??? Just play it with a faction, and if you don't like it try a different one... Jeez...
Psykers are not mandatory, they are just a shortcut for the weak
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Not Online!!! wrote: BTW, Khorne doesn't hate warpsmiths, Khorne hates psykers, Warpsmiths are not psykers infact they require psyker help sometimes but they themselves aren't.
One of the few things I don't like about WH40k is how every mech looks like a hunch back XD
I'm having trouble understanding how Khorne doesn't hate warpsmiths and Daemon engines when psykers are mandatory for their creation. If warpsmiths can't get Daemons themselves then I change my answer above to ascended Heretek or Master of Possession.
Crispy78 wrote: Wait, what? This is just for what faction to play in the video games?
Did anyone ever say you maybe worry about this too much? Deliberating over spending vast sums on an army is one thing, but for a video game??? Just play it with a faction, and if you don't like it try a different one... Jeez...
There is a large number of people who don't play WH40K but discuss its lore because the lore is so over the top hilarious. Anytime anything sci-fi comes up there's always someone mentioning and derailing the topic to WH40K. It doesn't help that virtually everything out there is influenced by WH40K like starcraft. And fantasy too because everytime orcs are mentioned there's always someone who says Orks are much better and these "noble" orcs defeats the entire purpose of having orcs. And I agree, I believe WH40K's orks are the best incarnation of orcs in everywhere.
Getting deep into the lore is fun for me. I'm having fun here discussing chaos lore with others. Having a faction to root for lets me enjoy the lore even more.
Khorne is perfectly find with psykers, he only hates sorcerers. The difference is that sorcerers rely on powers gifted by gods or other means that have them rely on something other then their own skills.
Psykers bring their foes down through sheer willpower and bending the immaterium to their will.
Generally Khorne is fine with anything really so long as it's a test of skill/might. Although, sacrifice a planets worth of skulls in his name and he might cut you some slack regardless.
This whole melee only nonsense is a recent change...which I happily ignore. (see Lheorvine Ukris or blood pact)
He used to be/is the god of war, ie discipline, honour etc, not JUST mindless carnage, although that too of course.
So yea, a khorne warpsmith is A-OK. Especially one fueling the warmachine, even if his minions may not be so keen about you.
And as for the daemon engine rituals, well...you normally need a sorcerer and an apostle to to aquire a daemon and subdue it while the smith goes about fusing it into the machine.
But literally anybody can summon daemons, it just takes longer since you need to do rituals, cause enough slaughter /misery etc. And as for subduing them, I suppose some re-purposed necron anti warp tech might help trap them too.
Or you go find a spot where daemons spill forth, shouldn't be that hard to find what with the XBOX HUEG tear in reality now. Then you just have to figure out how not to get your soul eaten and you're good.
Oh and about the hunchback thing, dark mech creates whatever they want, so you can build whatever floats your boat. From spindely horrific skeletal robots to crabs or even armed tires. when I said the sky is the limit I meant it, including re-using xenos tech like tau.
and also:
Not Online!!! wrote: BTW, Khorne doesn't hate warpsmiths, Khorne hates psykers, Warpsmiths are not psykers infact they require psyker help sometimes but they themselves aren't.
One of the few things I don't like about WH40k is how every mech looks like a hunch back XD
I'm having trouble understanding how Khorne doesn't hate warpsmiths and Daemon engines when psykers are mandatory for their creation. If warpsmiths can't get Daemons themselves then I change my answer above to ascended Heretek or Master of Possession.
Crispy78 wrote: Wait, what? This is just for what faction to play in the video games?
Did anyone ever say you maybe worry about this too much? Deliberating over spending vast sums on an army is one thing, but for a video game??? Just play it with a faction, and if you don't like it try a different one... Jeez...
There is a large number of people who don't play WH40K but discuss its lore because the lore is so over the top hilarious. Anytime anything sci-fi comes up there's always someone mentioning and derailing the topic to WH40K. It doesn't help that virtually everything out there is influenced by WH40K like starcraft. And fantasy too because everytime orcs are mentioned there's always someone who says Orks are much better and these "noble" orcs defeats the entire purpose of having orcs. And I agree, I believe WH40K's orks are the best incarnation of orcs in everywhere.
Getting deep into the lore is fun for me. I'm having fun here discussing chaos lore with others. Having a faction to root for lets me enjoy the lore even more.
so discuss 40k, you don't need some bizzare fictional backstory for a character you never touch to do so (in fact I find it's easier to have a rational coversation if the other guy doesn't run around saying "we" and insisting on treating something he knows is BS as true because "my character would belive that"
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
BrianDavion wrote: so discuss 40k, you don't need some bizzare fictional backstory for a character you never touch to do so (in fact I find it's easier to have a rational coversation if the other guy doesn't run around saying "we" and insisting on treating something he knows is BS as true because "my character would belive that"
There's always someone in every forum that tells you that you're having fun wrong.
I enjoy things more if I can picture an original character I made in the setting. If the lore I read affects said character in someway then I get into it a lot more instead of everything feeling like a history textbook. And I like to RP a commander in the setting when I play anything including WH40K video games.
Since you have a problem with me imagining an original character in the setting to the point of telling me i'm having badwrongfun, I'm gonna have to kindly ask you to stop reading this thread. I don't get why people don't just stop reading a thread if they don't like what the OP is doing.
hey all I'm saying is you don't need a personal character to discuss 40k and it can sometimes get in the way.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
roboemperor wrote: Ok so in case anyone was wondering, I'm down to two factions.
Tyranids
Necrons
Spoiler:
Chaos is out because they're just too *censored*. No matter how much I try to ignore it, all of chaos sacrifices their own be it their own sorcerers, warpsmiths, lords, princes, anything and everything. Also Daemon Engines require teamwork to be crafted, and I ain't into Daemon Engines themselves so really no point in going chaos. This is on top of all the sick **** they do en masse to everything.
The thing that is preventing me from definitively choosing Tyranids is Nuclear Transmutation. Tyranids leave a valueless rock behind after consumption, but that's just it. They left something behind. With enough energy you can turn any matter or element into any other matter or element. It may involve anti-matter mass production or artificial stars and supernovas all of which the necrons are capable of doing, but they can and should do it since stars give off endless energy.
So if the Tyranids are doing what they're doing for the sake of efficiency to fight the existing factions and eventually, after they win WH40K, will go back with dedicated tyranid hive fleets to turn all matter into biomass, I'm 100% on board with Tyranids. Otherwise there's gonna be a huge nagging voice in the back of my head that the Tyranids are at their technological peak and it's not high enough. Because they're leaving a planet and all of its inner/outer core mantle mineral stuff behind forever. That is a huge ass waste. Not good enough. They should have the scientific know-how to do this stuff because they consumed humans who do know how to do this stuff so....
Necrons on the other hand, are no different than the imperium of man. Also their entire army is like 99% infantry and infantry on vehicles. Even the monolith is crewed by sentient necrons. Their True AI is only canoptek, seraptek, and Obelisk. Former two aren't really military grade combat units but just police security for their tombs. And the obelisk is not a robot. Carnifex is a bio-robot but still a robot. I really like the Carnifex. The Obelisk is just a floating rock made out of necrodermis.
Tyranids
+I really like the Carnifex.
-Warp dependent, though i'm sure they can evolve to use other methods of communication should the Necrons pylon up the entire galaxy.
-Leaves matter behind. If it's truly just a feeding habit thing that will change once the galaxy is devoid of all resistance then my tune will change.
Necrons
+I really like their color scheme and lasers
-Their robots are either police grade or don't look like robots but just floating blocks.
-Most of their army is like imperium of man. "humans" on vehicles.
Overread wrote: Their only weakness would indeed be the burn of energy in transfers; however they can park around a sun and soak up the radiation for energy.
I couldn't locate this piece of fluff. Where did you get this?
My friend, you are waaay over thinking it.
Pick the faction that has the most models you like.
Build & paint a force of those 1st. Play a bunch of games.
Make up whatever fluff you want to justify why your models are fighting, & to explain the inclusion/exclusion of various units (but realize that nobody but you actually cares about your personal story concerning your force - all the opponent sees across from them is Necrons/Tyranids/etc. They MIGHT pause for a moment & think "Huh, that's a different build." if you field non-typical lists. But the moment passes, the shooting/melee begins, & it really doesn't matter.)
While you're doing the above? Start building the 2nd choice force.
Why?
1) You're going to do it anyways & it won't be any cheaper in the future. So as funds & time permit in the here & now....
2) Eventually you'll grow tired of playing only 1 faction. Having multiple forces, that play differently, helps avoid burnout.
3) Eventually the rules will shift. And typically a forces effectiveness swings good ---> bad (or at least to not as effective, though people freak & scream their armies now trash) /bad ---> good. Having multiple forces helps ride out those shifts. The more forces you can enjoy playing, the more likely you are of always having something worth fielding.
Eldar wraith constructs fit somewhat, and you could absolutely add female spiritseers to fulfill the "hawt" (really?). Simple female headswaps and also maybe add Yvraine from the Ynnari to lead them.
For lore we don't know why Tyranids leave behind minerals on planets, however consider that right now they are on the offensive and that living biomatter is clearly faster to digest and use. Their fleets currently attack worlds, consume the readily accessible food and then move onto the next.
This both allows them to retain a high degree of mobility and also allows them to continually weaken their enemies by stripping worlds in this manner.
It might well be that the Tyranids "grazing" on mineral worlds would come much later when there's no viable threat left in the Galaxy and they are then able to settle around mineral worlds and feed more slowly on the mineral content. They might even have different hive ships far out in the dark of the empty between Galaxies which are simply waiting (or travelling very slowly) to come and consume the rest.
Overread wrote: For lore we don't know why Tyranids leave behind minerals on planets, however consider that right now they are on the offensive and that living biomatter is clearly faster to digest and use. Their fleets currently attack worlds, consume the readily accessible food and then move onto the next.
This both allows them to retain a high degree of mobility and also allows them to continually weaken their enemies by stripping worlds in this manner.
It might well be that the Tyranids "grazing" on mineral worlds would come much later when there's no viable threat left in the Galaxy and they are then able to settle around mineral worlds and feed more slowly on the mineral content. They might even have different hive ships far out in the dark of the empty between Galaxies which are simply waiting (or travelling very slowly) to come and consume the rest.
This is just speculation though. Like I do hope it is true but imagine, spending 10 years with Tyranids only to realize at the end, it turns out they don't.
Could you tell me where you found the Tyranids soaking up radiation fluff? I can't locate it.
I did actually. Legio Cybernetica is awesome. They're in fact in Inqusitor - Prophecy and I loved it! Don't like the servitors but the Kastelan Robots were freaking awesome.
TL;DR;
Tyranids suffer from the same problem Abaddon does, people see only the memes, ignoring that nids are an insanely badass faction.
And you'd throw that away for not eating a dead rock?
So you had fun for 10 years and then have a midlife crisis because they added fluff you didn't like? Then 40k really is not for you lol. That's setting unrealistic standards.
GW mess with the lore all the time. 40k is also full of speculation and to a degree that's part of the fun.
This is simply a matter of head canon, there sa good chance you will never get an answer to why they don't consume planets, so you might as well go with the idea that works for your hive fleet.
In this case being that they do but they are in on the front lines and attacking, so no time for that.
Besides, nobody has ever been to a planet that has been eaten and STAYED in tyranid controlled space. That would mean that it's no longer a passing hivefleet but the main mass of tyranids has made contact.
There is currently no faction in 40k that could survive that. What people encounter in 40k are what a hivefleet left in it's wake, that is a different from being at the center of a tendril and doesn't even come remotely close to whatever said tendril is attached to.
People in general underestimate what the tyranids are.
There is/was fluff that basically says that for all we know, the nids might as well have consumed all the surrounding galaxies. We know they are a pan-galactic organism. The nids are a lovecraftian kind of horror and not because they have tentacles. They are UTTERLY alien, enough so to push even astartes psyker minds to their limit from simply glimpses of the shadow in the warp.
Which also brings me to being dependant on warp. How are nids dependant on the warp? They don't even travel through it, they supress it. They kind of just float around until something rings the dinner bell.(It's more complicated but whatever)
I guess that depends on how you look at it. You can't take the warp out of 40k, that's like saying (in RL), no reality= no life, it's absurd.
The warp is there to stay, or it's not 40k anymore.
And given that, you can only locally dampen the warp, and then it depends on how many nids there are, or how close you are to the main biomass.
A couple of pylons can be an issue for a low number of nids and even then, as you say, they can adapt. That is their whole shtick after all.
But blocking their psychic aspect as a faction, that is a laughable idea. That's like trying to wall of all the water on the planet with a single popsicle stick and that's being generous, it's just not happening.
As far as I'm concerned, the shadow in the warp is not so much suppressing the warp as it is such a monstrously strong psychic presence that it effectively takes over the warp in it's path.
Like turning up the volume until the ground starts shaking and then breaking off the knob ( Which we can already do ).The sheer scale makes it behave in new ways that it can barely still be called a psychic presence.
Even a single hive fleet can generate a strong enough presence to make daemons fade from reality from simply being there. And if that is indeed a psychic resonance of sorts, then , yes, it is also affected by warp dampening technology, but that technology will inevitably be overpowered if there are enough tyranids.
Roknar wrote: I guess that depends on how you look at it. You can't take the warp out of 40k, that's like saying (in RL), no reality= no life, it's absurd.
The warp is there to stay, or it's not 40k anymore.
Off topic, but the topic is kinda weird anyway, so…
I had an idea once for a "Warhammer 50k" fan-setting, wherein the warp is totally gone:
There's no more warp travel, the webway only has tiny little fragments left, there's no more psykers or daemons anymore, no more Emperor or astronomicon, no more Imperium (though there's still humans), the surviving Aeldari no longer have to worry about Slaanesh and live in isolated little hedonistic covens, the tyranids are (almost) extinct, the centre of the Segmentum Solar where Terra used to be is now just a big black hole, and no one remembers what exactly happened. So it'd have a sort of "post-apocalyptic" vibe on a galactic scale: remnants of the Imperium regressing to barbaric tech-scavenger cultures on some worlds while others start beginning to develop science again (even dangerous AI!), the few remaining Astartes (no imperium means no proper geneseed maintenance) rule as superhuman tyrants and warlords over their feudal worlds, Orks or Ogryn raiders are a constant threat, little pockets of increasingly inhuman tech-priests and pseudo-skitarii still keeping their old tech alive under a new version of the Cult Mechanicus that denounces the Emperor (who they don't even remember accurately) as having been an evil False Omnissiah, the Necron dynasties are held in check only by their own madness and internecine warfare, etc. etc.
Like a setting where the big climax of 40k happened, but no one remembers what exactly it was, and everything is simultaneously much much better AND much much worse.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/19 20:27:47
***Bring back Battlefleet Gothic***
Nurgle may own my soul, but Slaanesh has my heart <3
I'm gone. 
Neutran Panzergrenadiers, 
Ostrakan Skitarii Legions, 
Order of the Silver Hand
For the Emperor and Sanguinius! 
