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Given how far GW plastic technology has come, that original Rhino kit was a bit of a marvel. One single sprue (duplicated) made the whole vehicle, and was done in such a way that it looked natural with all the details stuck on and not like it could flip either way.

Yes, the railings on the side always broke, and it's because of that sprue that the Rhino had two bolters for years rather than a storm bolter, but still, given what they had to work with (and how much it would have cost to produce back then), GW did very well with that kit.

Voss wrote:
*the fact that top and bottom hull were the same utterly confused me when assembling my first Rhino.

That totally blew my 14 year old mind.

And those constantly breaking bars along the top of it. They looked great but they were so finicky.

I always left the bars off of mine because I knew they were going to eventually break and end up being taken off anyway.

I never had the chance to get an RT one, but I have several of the 3rd ed one.

I really like the design. But I didn't like the armament. Luckily the VDR was out and I'd just won a conversion comp and got the local GW's bits box as a prize (my entire salamander army came out of that bitz box...), which included almost a whole land raider (the manager saw that, and swapped the right side with a second left side because 'this is for bits not miniatures'). so I told him I'd turn it into a land raider anyway, which I did. Souped up engine, lighter armour, assault cannons and twin heavy bolters, 15 man transport. It was my favourite vehicle while the rules were allowed...

I think the land raider is a really cool model. It reminds me of the APC in the movie aliens with its interior display monitors and also the central turrent placement. I compared the monitors to images from aliens and tried to paint those to look similar in the model. A total waste of time for sure but it made me appreciate the land raider even more.

Still love my land raiders, got 5 of them-phobos (standard), crusader, helios, prometheus and achillies. all but the achillies(for salamanders) are for my dark angels (azrael has a prometheus as his personal command ride according to the lore so i had to get one)

But then again i use them in 5th ed or 30K so while being expensive they are still a hard nut to crack (that you can assault out of) barring that odd lucky shot (like that darn basilisk back in 3rd that killed my crusader and deathwing command squad inside....ordinance pen 6....@$%#! )


I have repainted the deathwing ones since this pic was taken, well gave them a nice dirty wash to be exact. and yes that is the discontinued FW spaced armor kits on the prometheus/helios because rule of cool.

The problem with Land Raiders is that Knights exist. Your opponents list is more than likely to be tooled to kill a T8 4++ 28W model, which means a T8 16W model with no invul will simply instamelt.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

POMS was outright deleted as per the FAQ

Hopefully temporary as it is purely redundant atm. My fingers are crossed.

As has been pointed out a few times elsewhere, POTMS is not purely redundant because it's a requirement to use the Vengeance of the Machine Spirit stratagem.

The Newman wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

POMS was outright deleted as per the FAQ

Hopefully temporary as it is purely redundant atm. My fingers are crossed.

As has been pointed out a few times elsewhere, POTMS is not purely redundant because it's a requirement to use the Vengeance of the Machine Spirit stratagem.

No, it isn't?

Use this Stratagem when an ADEPTUS ASTARTES LAND RAIDER model, REPULSOR model or STORMRAVEN GUNSHIP model from your army is destroyed. That model can either automatically explode (do not roll a D6), shoot with one of its ranged weapons as if it were your Shooting phase, or make one attack with one of its melee weapons as if it were the Fight phase (use the top row of that model’s damage table when shooting with that ranged weapon or resolving that attack with a melee weapon).

It's based off the keywords, not the special rule.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The problem with Land Raiders is that Knights exist. Your opponents list is more than likely to be tooled to kill a T8 4++ 28W model, which means a T8 16W model with no invul will simply instamelt.

It depends on the metas, in mine the Castellan never existed. Here people have mostly freaked out about hordes so it has been easier to lose 60+ boyz (430 points in 8th, 490-500 in 9th) per turn than a morkanaut (310 points in 8th, 340 in 9th). Land raiders, like any other armored unit, require redundancy to work. In a tank heavy SM list they can work, if all the other models are T4-5 then a single land raider is crap, as it should be.

When I played SW in 8th edition I ALWAYS had a LR Crusader, a Stormfang Gunship and 3 Razorbacks. Yeah, sometimes the LR dies turn 1 but then the flyer and all (or most of) the other tanks will be alive...

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Landraiders will always, always, be cooler than the new repulsive floating tanks. I've got one, with spikes, naturally, and have always wanted a Proteus (fw resin model of the original Landraider) and Achilles (which comes with a sweet 4++).

Always remember: REAL TANKS HAVE TREADS.

dude, the proteus/spartan look is sooooo much nicer looking than the "hidden tracks" of the GW land raider kit.
Im planning on getting a proteus for my night lords, gotta have a nice centerpiece model with all the infantry im running lol.

Just started pointing out a Deathwing army for 9th last night. It has 2 land raiders in it (one Crusader, one regular)

They will be used!

 bullyboy wrote:
Just started pointing out a Deathwing army for 9th last night. It has 2 land raiders in it (one Crusader, one regular)

They will be used!

Well if you are true to the original lore that kinda have to-land raiders, terminators and dreadnoughts to the absolution of all other units. the real deathwing.

I love my Land Raiders, but they where pretty bad in 8th for more than one reason:

1) Too expensive / too squishy for their cost.
2) Too little firepower for their cost.
3) Big footprint, so hard to hide and easy to tag in close combat which made them 100% useless.

Now in 9th they are iirc "cheaper" (relatively speaking), and can fire at whatever's engaging them, so they are more viable all of a sudden.

Honestly anyone saying they were squishy hasn't really tried to kill one. Squishy really wasn't the issue. The problem was tagging them and making them unable to move forward.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly anyone saying they were squishy hasn't really tried to kill one.

The audacity in this statement.

I faced three of them (GK-player with a fetish for them) last weekend, 2000 pts game.
My Salamanders brought 8 Lascannons in various forms, and by the start of turn 3 he had one very crippled Godhammer left.

Honestly, 6 Rhinos would've caused more of a problem than those 3 Land Raiders.
Someone feel free to do the math, but I expect 2 Rhinos to be harder to kill than 1 Land Raider for Lascannon-esque weapon.

 MinscS2 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly anyone saying they were squishy hasn't really tried to kill one.

The audacity in this statement.

I faced three of them (GK-player with a fetish for them) last weekend, 2000 pts game.
My Salamanders brought 8 Lascannons in various forms, and by the start of turn 3 he had one very crippled Godhammer left.

Honestly, 6 Rhinos would've caused more of a problem than those 3 Land Raiders.
Someone feel free to do the math, but I expect 2 Rhinos to be harder to kill than 1 Land Raider for Lascannon-esque weapon.

Outside cover the odds are almost exactly the same, actually. the 5+ save almost exactly makes up the 4 wound difference between them. (just over 10 hits each)

 MinscS2 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly anyone saying they were squishy hasn't really tried to kill one.

The audacity in this statement.

I faced three of them (GK-player with a fetish for them) last weekend, 2000 pts game.
My Salamanders brought 8 Lascannons in various forms, and by the start of turn 3 he had one very crippled Godhammer left.

Honestly, 6 Rhinos would've caused more of a problem than those 3 Land Raiders.
Someone feel free to do the math, but I expect 2 Rhinos to be harder to kill than 1 Land Raider for Lascannon-esque weapon.

Lascannons are the right tool for the job of cracking LRs. MLs and other S8 stuff is not bad, but wounding T8 on a 4+ is not as good as you want. LCs wound everything on a 3+. For lists that rely on spamming S7/8 for their AV needs, the LR can be a significant nut to crack.

Salamanders also favor single shot high yield guns like LCs.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Landraiders will always, always, be cooler than the new repulsive floating tanks. I've got one, with spikes, naturally, and have always wanted a Proteus (fw resin model of the original Landraider) and Achilles (which comes with a sweet 4++).

Always remember: REAL TANKS HAVE TREADS.

dude, the proteus/spartan look is sooooo much nicer looking than the "hidden tracks" of the GW land raider kit.
Im planning on getting a proteus for my night lords, gotta have a nice centerpiece model with all the infantry im running lol.

Agreed. And the Hellforged Proteus' "Accursed Phylactery" rule perfectly complements Night Lords. I want one.

People generally don't hate what it is and how it looks, they just can't justify fielding them because of the rules/points that GW gave them.

In 6th and 7th Land Raiders where generally too expensive and tended to carry expensive passengers so A LOT of points where tied up in a single unit which reduced their ability to have big game impact. Generally you just take them out with cost effective weapons such as melta guns, lance weapons, emp, gauss spam, etc. If you didn't have the tools to deal with them then you just kill everything else on the board (which isn't much because the LR + passengers = 1/3rd of your army basically). Str D weapons made AV14 in general useless as they bypassed AV on a 2+ just the same as they bypassed AV10.

In 8th transports generally sucked unless they had good firepower for their points (then its just harder to kill dakka boxes). Also AV14 stuff didn't translate well to 8th so you got a LR that is T8 with 16 wounds and 2+ armor while a Rhino is T7 with 10 wounds and 3+ armor (at around 1/3rd of the points cost). If a weapon is a threat to a Rhino is almost always a threat to a LR which use to not be the case in 6th/7th where a LR could ignore anything S7 or lower (unless melta, armorbane, gauss, or sometimes rending) and S8 hit could only knock off 1 hull point (of 4) on a 6+. It really required S9, S10, special ruled weapons, or Str D (which was a dumb mechanic in non apoc games) to do anything to the thing. Also without fly or other special rules they basically became useless if charged where as in 6th/7th they didn't care about being charged (unless the melee weapons could hurt the thing) and if completely surrounded they could then just tank shock/ram through the enemy.

Land Raiders are just the coolest tanks that scream 40k, no denying. Now that Death Guard LR's can also have Disgusting Resilience, I might finally finish painting the one I've had on the shelf for some years

Wow, it looks like some of you have accumulated a good number of Land Raiders over the years. Probably part of why GW will never give them good rules.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly anyone saying they were squishy hasn't really tried to kill one.

The audacity in this statement.

I faced three of them (GK-player with a fetish for them) last weekend, 2000 pts game.
My Salamanders brought 8 Lascannons in various forms, and by the start of turn 3 he had one very crippled Godhammer left.

Honestly, 6 Rhinos would've caused more of a problem than those 3 Land Raiders.
Someone feel free to do the math, but I expect 2 Rhinos to be harder to kill than 1 Land Raider for Lascannon-esque weapon.

Outside cover the odds are almost exactly the same, actually. the 5+ save almost exactly makes up the 4 wound difference between them. (just over 10 hits each)

You're using an anecdote for one of the weapons that's actually kinda okay. Did any of you actually run the numbers for the more commonly ran weapons?

If the Multimelta is getting the 2 shots like I hope it is, the firepower potential on the basic Raider is going to be pretty impressive. 4 Lascannon shots, 2 Multimelta shots, HK missile, Heavy Bolters. Starting the game off with seven S8+ D6 damage shots is nothing to scoff at. The problem I have is that 3 Razorbacks don't cost too much more, bring 6 Lascannons and 3 HKs, and don't take a Heavy slot.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Landraiders will always, always, be cooler than the new repulsive floating tanks. I've got one, with spikes, naturally, and have always wanted a Proteus (fw resin model of the original Landraider) and Achilles (which comes with a sweet 4++).

Always remember: REAL TANKS HAVE TREADS.

You know why they call them "Repulsors"?


I hate them. They are heresy.

GW should have released the #New marines instead of numarines, and made all marines #2wounds at that time, and able to ride in landraiders.
And instead of making I-marines of various flavors, and flying tanks (and flying heavy weapons dudes, wtf?), they should have dumped some attention on other factions, balanced the game at least int his way.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

You're using an anecdote for one of the weapons that's actually kinda okay.

I mean, I've faced Land Raiders on and off during the entirety of 8th and neither of my armies has had any real problem dealing with them and I've never felt "Oh god, Land Raiders...how do I deal with these!?".
(Well, my Thousand Sons would probably have troubles if facing 3+ of the damn things, but thats more of a Thousand Sons AT-issue than anything else.)

Call it anecdotal if you will, but your claim that they are "hard to kill" (not your exact words but that was the gist of it) are just about as anecdotal.

 Insectum7 wrote:
If the Multimelta is getting the 2 shots like I hope it is, the firepower potential on the basic Raider is going to be pretty impressive. 4 Lascannon shots, 2 Multimelta shots, HK missile, Heavy Bolters. Starting the game off with seven S8+ D6 damage shots is nothing to scoff at. The problem I have is that 3 Razorbacks don't cost too much more, bring 6 Lascannons and 3 HKs, and don't take a Heavy slot.

Why would the MM get two shots, and where would it say this if not in the Codex FAQs?

Two barrels, brah!

I find it unlikely it's getting 2 shots. For whatever reason it's probably just always going to suck.However, IF it got changed I bet it would be in a forthcoming codex we have to pay for.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
If the Multimelta is getting the 2 shots like I hope it is, the firepower potential on the basic Raider is going to be pretty impressive. 4 Lascannon shots, 2 Multimelta shots, HK missile, Heavy Bolters. Starting the game off with seven S8+ D6 damage shots is nothing to scoff at. The problem I have is that 3 Razorbacks don't cost too much more, bring 6 Lascannons and 3 HKs, and don't take a Heavy slot.

Why would the MM get two shots, and where would it say this if not in the Codex FAQs?

Missile Launchers, Grav Cannons, Lascannons all went down in points significantly. For some odd reason the Multimelta basically stayed static, going from 22 to 20, vs. the Lascannon going from 25 to 15. (infantry costs) And it's not like the Multimelta was particularly popular.

On the other end you have the Eradicator (T5, 3W, 2 Melta shots at 24") for 40 points.
While a Devastator with a Multimelta (T4, 1W, 1 Melta shot at 24") for 35 points.
Normally I'm not keen on doing points comparisons, but this is same book, same FOC slot, same role, etc.
Given these contexts, it doesn't make sense that the MM costs what it appears to cost for what it currently does.

As for where you get the change? Something you buy, probably.

I think it's mostly the cost of the transport capacity.

It has no invulnerable save, but with a 2+ save, you've got a 5+ save even against AP-3.
In theory it's only lascannons and equivalents you really have to worry about, but the problem is that a land raider is not much more capable of resisting lascannon fire than lighter tanks.

Land raiders are "extra, extra immune" to light weapons fire compared to a normal tank, but it's not light weapons fire that was ever killing them, and they're NOT detectably tougher against big guns.