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Hulksmash wrote: I feel like you missed the point or at least one of the more serious ones.....
Spoiler:
Nazi scientist makes super serum. Runs for hills with super serum to escape the impending german loss. Founds company that secretly experiments on people creating super beings. Most/all of those beings are still being raised in a fairly normal home and are people that have people issues.
Enter Homelander. They were still experimenting. Created a super super. Said super super is experimented on and raised by a scientist as a lab animal constantly being poked and prodded. As such he has RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder) and hardcore sociopathic tendencies. Once he's out there is zero controlling him outside of mind games. He starts to twist the 7 (remember he picks the original 7) to be more like him.
These guys are almost never out there doing tons of saving/stopping crime. The 7 basically show up for photo op crime events and use them to promote films and themselves. They literally get prepped for crime fighting by legal and PR.
These aren't direct ports of superman/wonderwoman/batmat etc. They're not even "dark verse" versions. They are literally normal humans with powers that the original author clothed in the most well known super hero tropes to help tell the story.
I get that the focus is a critique on the corruption of big business, abuse and celebrity culture. However that’s very far from how the show is being discussed and the comic was far more critical of the genre generally. If so many Youtubers and commentators take the story to be premised on “saving us from superhero stories”; then I am left scratching my head. There’s an insinuation that it’s the superpowers that are the problem. Butchers solution is to murder all the superheroes (the same motivation as Modok in the Avengers game funnily enough). There’s very little discussion on destroying Vought or attacking the company and it’s employees. I get that impression that if Butcher and the Boys could kill the Superheroes and keep Vought they would be happy with that. So I think there is an anti-superhero agenda and the anti corporate stuff might just be window dressing.
For example when Butcher tells Hughie that superheroes get away with it because people like the idea of somebody saving them rather than helping themselves. That is a spectacular distortion of the moral behind every superhero story. The whole purpose is that they are coming of age tales designed to instil a sense of personal responsibility and obligation to other people. It is not there to teach you that the state and big business will handle everything for you. It would be pretty bad WW2 propaganda if it had that message. In fact, the Boys comics pro military stance and endless droning on about how everything should left to the experts and top men. I mean that’s actually the Hobbesian ideal; not as Butcher frames it here. Plus, again there’s the hypocrisy of the Boys being a superhero team who want to kill all superheroes. If you’re okay with the idea of a vigilante group going out to get revenge and using super powered violence; then that’s a very shaky criticism of superheroes.
Are you saying they aren’t trying to make a satire of the Justice League? Surely that has to be the goal here?
That isn't the goal at all. Also, most of the points you are trying to make don't make a whole lot of sense as far as the show is concerned. Take the issue you have with Homelander somehow not being able to pick up a plane. He could have. He knows he could have and so does Queen Maive. That is the whole point of her being upset. But he didn't, because he needed them to die so he could push his own agenda of superheroes in the military. I am not entirely sure where your take is coming from.
I think maybe you should watch a few more episodes.
Yeah, i feel like Totalwar1402 hasnt actually watched the show. They talk about taking down Vought constantly. Especially once they discover what they are doing. Also Butcher doesnt want to kill all supes though he wouldnt care if most of them died. He just wants homelander dead for for various reasons regarding his wife.
I have zero idea of where your view of the show is coming from butnif youre getting it from youtube or podcasts i suggest dropping those as they are obviously idiots and actually watching the show.
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Homelander couldn't not have saved the plane based on real world physics. He would have torn through any part other than maybe the landing gear and even then how is he going to get it to land safely? Worst case scenario is that he fails to do so and is seen by multiple people in the act of failing. Homelander absolutely refuses to be perceived as fallible.
Given what we know about celebrity culture and how power corrupts I seriously doubt that super-powered individuals would be saints. Look at how many celebrities behave 'badly' behind closed doors or outright commit crimes...and these are individuals with the same physical frailness as everyone else. Translucent for example was literally just a modernized Invisible Man. Creepy Pastor Stretch behaved in the same manner as many of real world television preachers, he just had superpowers as well. A-Train seems to behave much like a real world athlete, he just has superpowers.
You have good, neutral, and forced to play the game examples as well. It's not as if literally every single one of them is evil.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
Isn't the comic book version of the plane crash mostly what Trex says as for all their v-spawned powers they can't beat physics and it even costs them one of the team, I'd imagine would have been quite expensive to shoot even with cgi and fx of late, hence the paired down telly version
Also have a weird think bounce round my head that we only see Annie and Maeve (and very minor supes) in civilian get up as meaning something
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
trexmeyer wrote: Homelander couldn't not have saved the plane based on real world physics. He would have torn through any part other than maybe the landing gear and even then how is he going to get it to land safely?
Land with it on top of him. He isn't going to get hurt and it will just damage the plane, not the passengers.
He could have pretty easily saved that plane. It would have taken a lot of finesse, but it could have been done. The thing was, he didn't want to because that plane needed to be destroyed for his agenda.
trexmeyer wrote: Homelander couldn't not have saved the plane based on real world physics. He would have torn through any part other than maybe the landing gear and even then how is he going to get it to land safely?
Land with it on top of him. He isn't going to get hurt and it will just damage the plane, not the passengers.
He could have pretty easily saved that plane. It would have taken a lot of finesse, but it could have been done. The thing was, he didn't want to because that plane needed to be destroyed for his agenda.
Do you not understand that exerting force equal to the required amount to keep a plane aloft an area the size of human hands (or even the upper back/out stretched arms) would tear right through a plane?
Superman's stunts don't work here and wouldn't in the real world. That tone was set in the opening scene when A-Train ran through Hughie's girlfriend. They are at least paying lip service to real world physics.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
As I recall the scene, he didn’t Mean to down the plane, it was a screw up. He had a Well poop kind of reaction to it, and spinning the crash to suit his agenda was a reaction, not the goal.
One has to remember that Homelander is deeply insane, and on top of celebrity status corrupting people, he has slowly twisted the 7 over the years. Half of them do whatever he says because they know he can/will kill them. Most of them do not even do anything "bad" with their powers, just their personality, sometimes helped along by their powers.
For instance The Deep. He is supernaturally resistant and strong, but is hugely ashamed of his body, so he dominates/humiliates women to make himself feel better.
Translucent is a twisted pervert, following the usual storyline of an Invisible Man.
Maeve is pretty much a "good guy", but she does whatever Homelander says because she is worried that he will kill people that she loves out of jealousy. He's basically the boss that's she's had sex with, and is now abusive.
Even Black Noir for all his Snake Eyes coolness, has scenes start showing up where he is majorly off-kilter, the viewers just don't know WHY yet....
There are other 'minor" supers in this series that are not bad guys at all, at least in the normal sense of the word.
The show is basically about how if Homelander gets taken out of the picture, everything would change for the better. And with season 2, it's suddenly more than just him (for those who aren't on Season 2).
.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/09/17 02:55:41
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
And speaking of brutal, to no ones shock Homelanders rampage at the rally was all in his head. Was crazy seeing how it just tore through the crowd though.
The Deeps scenes were getting a bit played out for me, but it looks like that particular story is coming to a new chapter after his convo with Maeve.
Almost had a moment of sympathy for A-train, until I remembered he killed Hughies girl and laughed about it, and killed his own girlfriend to cover up the fact that he was a V junkie.
The scene with Black Noir’s footsteps was pretty fun, but it has me wondering if he will turn out to be who he is from what I wikipedia’d him in the comics. Doesn’t seem as formiddable as his primary target, unless he is sandbagging. Also, was totally worried Black Noir was going to kill the dog
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
And speaking of brutal, to no ones shock Homelanders rampage at the rally was all in his head. Was crazy seeing how it just tore through the crowd though.
The Deeps scenes were getting a bit played out for me, but it looks like that particular story is coming to a new chapter after his convo with Maeve.
Almost had a moment of sympathy for A-train, until I remembered he killed Hughies girl and laughed about it, and killed his own girlfriend to cover up the fact that he was a V junkie.
The scene with Black Noir’s footsteps was pretty fun, but it has me wondering if he will turn out to be who he is from what I wikipedia’d him in the comics. Doesn’t seem as formiddable as his primary target, unless he is sandbagging. Also, was totally worried Black Noir was going to kill the dog
Spoiler:
I'm was surprised that the dog made an appearance.
All in all a crazy episode that ended with hate?fething between two of the most dangerous beings on the planet. Not good.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
trexmeyer wrote: Do you not understand that exerting force equal to the required amount to keep a plane aloft an area the size of human hands (or even the upper back/out stretched arms) would tear right through a plane?
Superman's stunts don't work here and wouldn't in the real world. That tone was set in the opening scene when A-Train ran through Hughie's girlfriend. They are at least paying lip service to real world physics.
Are they, though? One of his arguments was he couldn't lift the plane because "there was nothing to push off of" (I don't remember the exact verbiage, and I can't check now).
What is he "pushing off of" when he is flying normally? He lifted Maeve and flew with her, so now he is lifting, presumably, around 300 pounds between the two of them with nothing to push off of. So that is a weird argument since he is super strong, and can lift weight when flying.
The plane wasn't dead weight. The plane was gliding. Homelander has been shown to have super speed; there was nothing preventing him from doing gentle, high speed corrections on the wings - which obviously can support the weight of the plane in flight - and gliding it in. He could have kept the nose up from the nose landing gear - which obviously supports the weight of half a plane - and so on.
And, putting that aside, there sure as gak nothing stopping him from carrying people 2 at a time and placing them in the water, right? He had a long, long time to do so, and and super speed on his side.
Finally, he blasted the pilot's controls, but man, they didn't even try the copilots.
No - he didn't bother to try to save anyone because it was useful for him to leverage their deaths for his supers-in-the-military agenda. There isn't any other reason.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/18 03:37:20
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Thought the same thing, actually. I knew a deus ex machina save was coming up, and the series is pretty bonkers enough to pull that kind of card.
Spoiler:
Or the old lady was going to do something. All the Supes have parental issues it seems and her maybe yelling at him could've triggered something in his fethed up head.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/18 14:23:57
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
I have to say, introducing a supe who can blow people's heads apart instantly has made me nervous.
In any scene between two people, whenever there's a long pause, or the director has placed the camera a bit further back than normal, I'm expecting someone to explode.
So i didnt read the comics so i only have a vauge idea of whats happening later on, but who actually expected homelander to have a fetish for rough sex?
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Eihnlazer wrote: So i didnt read the comics so i only have a vauge idea of whats happening later on, but who actually expected homelander to have a fetish for rough sex?
I suspect it more being able to bump belly button without killing the other party, heck Popclaw was only slightly super and still accidentally squished someone
But the whole angry super squelching and plans within plans were just a side show to the adorably fugly beast and bane of soft toys Terror, such a good dawg
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
And speaking of brutal, to no ones shock Homelanders rampage at the rally was all in his head. Was crazy seeing how it just tore through the crowd though.
The Deeps scenes were getting a bit played out for me, but it looks like that particular story is coming to a new chapter after his convo with Maeve.
Almost had a moment of sympathy for A-train, until I remembered he killed Hughies girl and laughed about it, and killed his own girlfriend to cover up the fact that he was a V junkie.
The scene with Black Noir’s footsteps was pretty fun, but it has me wondering if he will turn out to be who he is from what I wikipedia’d him in the comics. Doesn’t seem as formiddable as his primary target, unless he is sandbagging. Also, was totally worried Black Noir was going to kill the dog
Spoiler:
I'm really curious how and if they do something similar with Black Noir as in the comics.
I mean in the Comic it was a huge plotpoint, basically making homelander a lot less dangerous or important.
It seems like Stormfront is being setup as Homelander's foil/control. Sure, she had sex... but was it to prove she was capable of taking everything he could dish out? And if she is... well she never unloaded her full power on him. I suspect that's a threat she'll use when Homelander tries to regain some independence. Outstanding episode, I'm also surprised and glad that Terror survived!
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
It seems like Stormfront is being setup as Homelander's foil/control. Sure, she had sex... but was it to prove she was capable of taking everything he could dish out? And if she is... well she never unloaded her full power on him. I suspect that's a threat she'll use when Homelander tries to regain some independence. Outstanding episode, I'm also surprised and glad that Terror survived!
Speaking of Terror...
Spoiler:
...has it been hinted at (or confirmed) in the show that Butcher has treated the dog with Compound V?
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
there is a throw away line about Terror not having aged which may tie into Stormfronts apparent longevity being v induced so maybe, and of course the command is in place and Terror is a good boy and obeys, this time was only a cuddly toy..
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/20 21:41:38
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
Finally, he blasted the pilot's controls, but man, they didn't even try the copilots.
No - he didn't bother to try to save anyone because it was useful for him to leverage their deaths for his supers-in-the-military agenda. There isn't any other reason.
Thanks, yep that's what I was about to write. The point was in that scene that he obviously had no intention/desire to save the plane or the people.
Yep, definitely looking to know BN's backstory now. Having not read the comic he seems fairly indestructible along with being a master assassin - what are his other specific powers?
Spoiler:
And T being treated with Compound V? He's such a good boy!!
Definitely the big match up this season will be between Homelander and Stormfront and my guess is they will position Homelander as the least insane of the two and we expect to root for him in the upcoming face-off; however, seeing Stormfront take Homelander's deadly lasers and get off on it, what else could he possibly do to her to even think about defeating her? Does he have another significant power we don't know yet?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/21 18:48:43
I think they are doing an awesome job fleshing out Homelander! His reactions of being terrified by his own actions during the scene where he was daydreaming (avoiding spoilers) made him much more than a one-dimensional bad guy. Stormfront is a monster, Homelander is just a messed-up in the head guy who's lying to himself to justify his actions.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
Mmmm, Homelander is a monster as well. He's done many horrific things purely out of spite, and has never felt sympathy for any of his actions as far as we can tell, such as on the plane.
He is a victim of abuse and certainly has a tragic past, but most of the monsters in human history do.
MDSW wrote: Yep, definitely looking to know BN's backstory now. Having not read the comic he seems fairly indestructible along with being a master assassin - what are his other specific powers?
Going by the comics, BN is...
Spoiler:
...a back-up clone of Highlander, positioned to eliminate him if Voight couldn't maintain control. Because he's positioned next to his target for so long, but without getting approval to execute, he eventually goes insane. This leads him to carry out many of the acts that get blamed on Homelander, leading the latter to think he's losing the plot. In the comic continuity, for example, he's the one that causes the death of Becky, not HL.
In terms of powers, he should have roughly the same ones as Homelander, even if he doesn't always use them (to maintain his cover). He is noted for being physically stronger than HL, so presumably their powers aren't all on the same levels.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
