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Agreed with Nevelon. You can get a good cross-section of America in NYC, but if you're only seeing NYC you're going to fail to fundamentally understand America as a whole and miss a lot of what shaped the nation into what it is.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

Voss wrote:
Just FYI, those are contradictory statements. To get actual Americana you need to leave the cities.
The big cities are where we go to get the dim echoes of other cultures and put our toes into the shallow end of experiences past the limitations of 'Merica!'

Interesting. It's rare you see anyone handwave away 83% of a country's population as insufficiently part of the nation.

To be fair, I think there is a difference between “America” and “Americana” While the hustle of the urban centers, and the things it supports (theater, museums, events) is a huge part of our nation, when I think “Americana” I think small town, Norman Rockwell, quaint little things. Not full on farm-rural, but not the big city. This is almost defiantly an image that does not actually exist, but one I hold. This might be from my growing up in New Hampshire, and now in Upstate. I’m no stranger to cities. I spent a decade living in Louisville; while not the scale of NYC, few things are. But for me, my heart is craft fairs, farmers markets, mom and pop diners, and small town, USA. YMMV.

Exactly this. When someone says 'Americana,' they're not talking about big city corp/academic/gov't/cultural centers.
Though I'd definitely argue that Rockwell contributes to the image that didn't exist (and did it from the city perspective).

chaos0xomega wrote:
Agreed with Nevelon. You can get a good cross-section of America in NYC, but if you're only seeing NYC you're going to fail to fundamentally understand America as a whole and miss a lot of what shaped the nation into what it is.

TBH it's impossiable to experiance all of the US in one city; it's like saying "I want to experiance all of europe" when going to Paris

BrianDavion wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Agreed with Nevelon. You can get a good cross-section of America in NYC, but if you're only seeing NYC you're going to fail to fundamentally understand America as a whole and miss a lot of what shaped the nation into what it is.

TBH it's impossiable to experiance all of the US in one city; it's like saying "I want to experiance all of europe" when going to Paris

Tbf you can experience basically all of france in a Way in paris. Atleast continental france.
The francophonie overall though you wouldn't, considering a Lot of that is outside of continental france.

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Agreed with Nevelon. You can get a good cross-section of America in NYC, but if you're only seeing NYC you're going to fail to fundamentally understand America as a whole and miss a lot of what shaped the nation into what it is.

TBH it's impossiable to experiance all of the US in one city; it's like saying "I want to experiance all of europe" when going to Paris

Tbf you can experience basically all of france in a Way in paris. Atleast continental france.
The francophonie overall though you wouldn't, considering a Lot of that is outside of continental france.

No, and the US isn't exactly like le Francophonie (I should know my country's a member) but I do think the europe comparison was valid. the US is a big place and despite being one country with one langauge there are a fair number of cultural differances across it

Meh, he's going on vacation, not getting a PhD in American Studies. If he wants to go to NY, let him go to NY.

BrianDavion wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Agreed with Nevelon. You can get a good cross-section of America in NYC, but if you're only seeing NYC you're going to fail to fundamentally understand America as a whole and miss a lot of what shaped the nation into what it is.

TBH it's impossiable to experiance all of the US in one city; it's like saying "I want to experiance all of europe" when going to Paris

I mean, you can experience more of the US in one city than you might think. Certainly more than this weird rosy glasses idea of "gotta go to a small town" to experience it.

The days of roadside diners, cross-country roadtrips, and the like were more fiction than reality.

American cities I think are generally too modern and cosmopolitan to actually give you an accurate reflection of American culture and society as a whole, unlike many major cities in Europe which even if they have large international communities are still deeply rooted in a local culture and longstanding history that continues to define them and their surrounding environs.

The US, like certain other parts of the world, also has a lot of distinction between cities themselves - the culture in NYC is very different from Boston, or Miami, or Los Angeles, or Seattle, etc. Its not unlike the cities in the UK in that regard, but in many cases (especially as you travel south and west) the differences are even more stark.

I probably should’ve said a very literal taste of Americana.

Gumbo, Grits, Biscuits, Barbecue, Street vendor Hotdogs.

I know the majority of the stuff I shortlisted above is Southern cuisine, but I figure most US Cities will offer authentic options to get trying.

The best bit? Next time I’ll visit Texas or Louisiana, and be able to appreciate.

Street Vendor is a very regional.... as in mostly just New York City and to extent a few other cities thing. You don't find that in other places.

You do find food trucks everywhere, though. I found a food truck 9000 feet up a mountain in Utah.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
You do find food trucks everywhere, though. I found a food truck 9000 feet up a mountain in Utah.

Far rarer though. Out where I am, we barely ever get a food truck. You have to go the next county over to get one and they are usually only on the occasional event day.

We have plenty of food trucks around here upstate. Not sure how widespread they are as a phenomenon. But they are the modern upscaled hot dog cart, with WAY better offerings.

Only proves more of what I said. Think of the states as small independent countries with cultures and customs similar but different.

It's worth noting that the covid rules change quite a lot - so there's no guarantees about what state things will be in even a month or 2 out.

There's also a huge amount of nothing between the cities, big, flat, grey, nothing. Unless you're going along a coast or mountains then don't expect much from a train view and just go with whatever has less changes or is quicker.

If you want to see more then you can always fly into NYC and then fly out from somewhere else (Philadelphia with it's cheese steaks or Boston with its seafood).

I like Boston, it's got loads of American history stuff and is a fairly walkable city.

Herzlos wrote:
It's worth noting that the covid rules change quite a lot - so there's no guarantees about what state things will be in even a month or 2 out.

There's also a huge amount of nothing between the cities, big, flat, grey, nothing. Unless you're going along a coast or mountains then don't expect much from a train view and just go with whatever has less changes or is quicker.

If you want to see more then you can always fly into NYC and then fly out from somewhere else (Philadelphia with it's cheese steaks or Boston with its seafood).

I like Boston, it's got loads of American history stuff and is a fairly walkable city.

Grey nothing? I didn't now large parts of my country was a grey hellish landscape.

On the food truck thing, there are such things in the U.K.

However, they tend to be overly trendy, and run by hipsters. So I’m hoping to experience the genuine article.

For example, a Taco truck not run by some trendy hipster with a passion for easy money, but someone with an actual, cultural love and knowledge of the food.

Just as you can never respect an English Haggis (what with me being Scottish), I want a Hispanic Taco Truck at which to stuff my stupid bearded face.

Then you'll be hard pressed to find such a thing, period.

Well.

Bugger.

Not a problem in NY, if not a food truck it's an easy subway rise to Spanish Harlem or other Latin neighborhoods.

I can only imagine that folks in NYC would have a low tolerance for fake/phoned in ethnic cuisine. Pretty much every cultural sub-group should have a number of authentic restaurants kicking around.

If you know where to find them.

(But that’s me guessing)

You might think the same of Awwwwwwwwlllldd Lahndahn Tahn (as the native cockernees call it).

But….you’d be wrong.

Just hipsters. With nothing but their gumption and a multiple thousand pound “loan” from their parents

 Nevelon wrote:
I can only imagine that folks in NYC would have a low tolerance for fake/phoned in ethnic cuisine. Pretty much every cultural sub-group should have a number of authentic restaurants kicking around.

If you know where to find them.

(But that’s me guessing)

This is true...my statement was more in regards to the idea of food trucks being trendy. It's not really a "trend" for a lot of them but rather the fact that renting a crummy old truck and getting it fixed up is cheaper than a storefront.

 Nevelon wrote:
I can only imagine that folks in NYC would have a low tolerance for fake/phoned in ethnic cuisine. Pretty much every cultural sub-group should have a number of authentic restaurants kicking around.

If you know where to find them.

(But that’s me guessing)

Oh hell yeah, any inauthentic food will be called out pretty fast here. Well, maybe not called out, but a restaurant can't survive if its food isn't authentic, cause you'll find a hundred other restaurants run by people from those actual places easily.

As for food trucks, try them if you REALLY want to I guess, or if; like any New Yorker, you want something fast and cheap and you're short on time. Some of them are pretty decent, but most of the time, you'll find better food elsewhere.

 LumenPraebeo wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
I can only imagine that folks in NYC would have a low tolerance for fake/phoned in ethnic cuisine. Pretty much every cultural sub-group should have a number of authentic restaurants kicking around.

If you know where to find them.

(But that’s me guessing)

Oh hell yeah, any inauthentic food will be called out pretty fast here. Well, maybe not called out, but a restaurant can't survive if its food isn't authentic, cause you'll find a hundred other restaurants run by people from those actual places easily.

As for food trucks, try them if you REALLY want to I guess, or if; like any New Yorker, you want something fast and cheap and you're short on time. Some of them are pretty decent, but most of the time, you'll find better food elsewhere.

I found NYC great for international food, but is it good for typical American foods? I figured you're better off just travelling to those places.

Personally, I lived a year and a half in the US and didn't spend much time in the cities. Cities all feel very same-y to me, I grew up in the suburbs of an Australian city and NYC just feels like a bigger version of an Australian city to me, just the people have a different accent, lol. Sure, some cities are quieter, some cities have more of a night life, but they all have a similar vibe to me. Nashville was the only one that stood out as unique for obvious reasons.

Probably my favourite part of my stay in the US was jumping in a car and driving across half the country. Stop at a town and pop into a pub or diner that has a good rating on the interwebs, ask for a pint of the local beer and a dish of whatever the local speciality is (if there is one), have a chat to some of the locals then drive 4 or 5 hours to another place.

But each to their own, I have friends who just did the cities and really enjoyed it, I never felt a great compulsion to go to NYC even though I was living less than 2 hours away from it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Probably gonna stick to the city I think, as I’m after a taste of as much Americana as I can get.

I know in the current climate it can be tricky as who knows which might survive until my visit, but I’m open to recommendations for Mom & Pop style restaurants where I can try different American cuisine.

A few thoughts.

- The lockdowns have been hard and the restaurant scene has taken a beating. You're better off focusing on known good quantities than taking a chance at some hole in the wall you read about online.

- Expect everything to be expensive, prices can change quickly right now. Had an $18 Pabst at an Irish Pub last month, which is a disgrace.

- Rays Pizza is the best. Make that one of your first stops.

- Take the time to go to Peter Luger's in Brooklyn. Legendary steakhouse, worth the trip.

- I'm personally a fan of Carmines for Italian. There's a location near Times Square, save room for the Tiramisu.

- Rosie O'Grady's is a good place for steak and seafood. I usually stop there when I'm in town, they are unaffected by shortages because they have own suppliers.

- The Doubletree in Times Square is a good place to stay. Central to most of the rest of the city, have recently been able to get rooms for $120 a night.

- Conversely, some friends and I have had bad experiences with AirBnBs. There are a lot of high vacancy buildings right now, people who moved out of the city and still own a condo are putting these things up left and right. Low occupancy means you don't get important amenities like doormen, friend of mine was mugged last month in the hallway of the place he stayed in Dumbo. Had his cheek slashed in what used to be a safe building.

- Unless you're really, really into the spectacle - avoid Broadway plays. Right now, there's a lot of security theater going on, it takes away from the experience.

LMK if there's anything more specific you're interested in.

You won't get an overall sense of America from a visit to NYC because that isn't really possible. All of the major cities are different and there is are major cultural differences between them. Los Angeles is different than Chicago is different than Atlanta is different than New Orleans, ect.

That being said one will still get a lot out of it and there is much to do in any one of them. NYC is a special and unique place, though not quite as much as some New Yorkers would like to believe, and is a great place to visit with good people and lots of sights to see.

Just going to London won't encompass the entirety of the UK but that doesn't mean one shouldn't visit. I mean even Ron Swanson has been to London.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Conversely, some friends and I have had bad experiences with AirBnBs. There are a lot of high vacancy buildings right now, people who moved out of the city and still own a condo are putting these things up left and right. Low occupancy means you don't get important amenities like doormen, friend of mine was mugged last month in the hallway of the place he stayed in Dumbo. Had his cheek slashed in what used to be a safe building.

Your friend got attacked and mugged in one of the most hipster and gentrified neighborhoods in Brooklyn? Was the attacker walking sideways and snapping his fingers to a steady beat when he was approaching? Sorry, just having a laugh. It's bad luck and unfortunate your friend was attacked. I hope he's recovered from the ordeal and has better future fortune.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I found NYC great for international food, but is it good for typical American foods? I figured you're better off just travelling to those places.

Atmosphere of a midwest restaurant in NYC isn't going to be the same as a restaurant in the American midwest, but yeah, I'd say the food would have a fairly authentic American taste to it. If there's any noticeable difference between hamburgers, briskets, salmon, or taters/gravy between regions, it's too small for me judge clearly. It'll be closer than any American restaurant in another country at the very least, I'd bet.

 LumenPraebeo wrote:
If there's any noticeable difference between hamburgers, briskets, salmon, or taters/gravy between regions, it's too small for me judge clearly. It'll be closer than any American restaurant in another country at the very least, I'd bet.

Bolding mine.

There is a whole food culture about American BBQ, and the brisket is a big part of that. There are places where if you loudly said “Briskets all the same, I can get this in NYC” I would not place bets on your ability to walk out the door under your own power.

Because you are going to have to roll out after being stuffed full of the local speciality.

I suspect that I’d need to take my Jollof approach when tasting American Barbecue.

Jollof is a really, really awesome African rice dish, with many regional variations. I’m lucky to have tried a good half dozen or so iterations through my colleagues.

The key is to always declare the one you’ve just had The Best. It will have been delicious, so no worries about pretending to enjoy it.

And if you’ve been presented with two? Make a show of savouring each. Then either Batman out with a smoke pellet, or spontaneously combust before offering an opinion.