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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 15:11:44
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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Firstborn have a place in the SM codex, do they?
They are the leftovers of the dark age. I could go without them.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 15:27:33
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Fixture of Dakka
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How do you efficiently replace stuff like venguard veterans or all the marine characters with bike and jet pack option, all the termintor models.Then come all the chapter specific units, knights and terminators for DA, Sang Guard for BAs.
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If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 15:31:00
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Nasty Nob
Crescent City Fl..
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Karol wrote:How do you efficiently replace stuff like venguard veterans or all the marine characters with bike and jet pack option, all the termintor models.Then come all the chapter specific units, knights and terminators for DA, Sang Guard for BAs.
You don't. It jut gets throw out and Gw adds in half that number or a quarter that number of new units then drops a few more with a new book.
Take money and repeat.
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The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 15:38:48
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Those units are crucial to faction identity. Something like Deathwing termintors have been in the game for longer then twice my age. You don't just remove stuff like that, without getting good replacement for it. Unless you are doing something like AoS, where you more or less assume that you will get new players and the players of the prior game may as well not exist.
The take money part, can run in to a slight problem, when people decide that they will not give you money. In fact, if anything this will probably be the thing that kills GW games, way before recasters or 3d printing etc does. When todays 35+ to 40 years olds are gone, and my generation is 30-40, they may not be enough players to buy GW stuff, even if they make it costs 4 or 5 times as much.
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If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 15:50:59
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Deathwing Terminators are just Terminators. And quite frankly if they were tossed away for better proportioned Primaris versions I'd be all for it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 15:53:09
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Nasty Nob
Crescent City Fl..
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Karol wrote:Those units are crucial to faction identity. Something like Deathwing termintors have been in the game for longer then twice my age. You don't just remove stuff like that, without getting good replacement for it. Unless you are doing something like AoS, where you more or less assume that you will get new players and the players of the prior game may as well not exist.
The take money part, can run in to a slight problem, when people decide that they will not give you money. In fact, if anything this will probably be the thing that kills GW games, way before recasters or 3d printing etc does. When todays 35+ to 40 years olds are gone, and my generation is 30-40, they may not be enough players to buy GW stuff, even if they make it costs 4 or 5 times as much.
sure. And that's a fair point but I believe Gw would come up with a few different new units to fill in those gaps but slowly and through their usual methods of making the new thing more op than the one or two units it is meant to replace and buff it again with a supplement and later nerf it as usual. Deathwing, for example, could just be graivis armoured close combat specialist with some kind of deepstrike strat and weapons kit. Ourtiders could get a new set of weapons to build out two or three different outrider type units with just a set of replacement arms, very lazy I know but less bitz and less production costs. Eradicators could get another different ranged weapon to become a different gravid unit. Blade guard could get a new set of close combat options that replace just the arms. Gw would just make the rules for these desirable and bank on players wanting them enough to sell them, maybe even to existing players.
It might sound bad but I don't think it's unrealistic behavior on their part.
As far as the longevity I sorta feel like small specialist games are or will be the future of table top. Not good or bad but it could be that more people reach for a copy of every new big box and buy 2 to 10 small warbands for each which may be more money brought in for GW than one or two large main systems of rules. and with those we could se the return of the first born via rereleases and a stack of rules where applicable. Small quick games and variety. we'll see. I'd give up 40K and 30K for something like Epic Armageddon, a good kill team and BFG game, total campaign fuel imop.
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The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 16:12:57
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Fixture of Dakka
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But the way they do splash releases, even for marines, it would take another 3-4 editions to just get to the point marines were at prior primaris. It took GW almost an entire edition just to give intercessors a melee weapon option for the sgt. Most marine books, got 1 HQ and that is it as far as new models goes in 9th. At best some units were take unit X+faction sprue, get new unit. Which is a good idea, but execution was horrible. I don't think any SW player used their own special reaver unit. And WS didn't even get a unique outrider version. Probably the DW version of blade guard are the only unique faction unit that actually did see play time. Automatically Appended Next Post: EviscerationPlague wrote:Deathwing Terminators are just Terminators. And quite frankly if they were tossed away for better proportioned Primaris versions I'd be all for it.
They have a different rule set. And I don't get the proportion comment. Termintors are the right size, it is GW that decided to make all post 8th ed models be gigantic in size, so suddenly SoB are taller then marines.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/26 16:13:56
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 16:21:12
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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The current Terminator models are kinda meh, tbf. The new Chaos ones look much better, and they're not Primaris either.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 16:38:41
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Nasty Nob
Crescent City Fl..
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Karol wrote:But the way they do splash releases, even for marines, it would take another 3-4 editions to just get to the point marines were at prior primaris. It took GW almost an entire edition just to give intercessors a melee weapon option for the sgt. Most marine books, got 1 HQ and that is it as far as new models goes in 9th. At best some units were take unit X+faction sprue, get new unit. Which is a good idea, but execution was horrible. I don't think any SW player used their own special reaver unit. And WS didn't even get a unique outrider version. Probably the DW version of blade guard are the only unique faction unit that actually did see play time.
That's fair. GW could do the same again with a younger player base holding them up or change directions as I believe they might. It's as much about understanding the demographic they wish to bring in to replace the old blood as it is about what's in the codex. I'm not sure I would advocate flushing the firstborn but I can see a path Gw may take to do it but I would say it would be a practical matter for them, production costs and more, more so than they just up and do it. I imagine they still have a large pile of stock they wish to move before they do phase out Firstborn Marines. In the mean time they can just fill in the gaps to save them a number of years of development as you say it would have taken a number of editions to raise SM's up to the current number of units we have. Aside from having kits to sell is that even something Gw would want to do again, maybe. so the larger question I think is just how many units in total and upgrades do they need to sell or on their part maybe they streamline the game even more removing the need for more upgrades. I could see them doing that as well. It's all about what they want not so much about what we want.
I like reavers a little but I just use them as drop troops for objectives, no idea if the SW ones are even useful. Gw should have worked harder to make this unit more desirable for every chapter.
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The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 17:43:36
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM
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Karol wrote:
They have a different rule set. And I don't get the proportion comment. Termintors are the right size, it is GW that decided to make all post 8th ed models be gigantic in size, so suddenly SoB are taller then marines.
the ruleset can be applied to them without needing a specific datasheet entry.
Get rid of Assault/Tactical/relic terminators for a single datasheet that lets you have all the options, then in the DA rules have the rules for the deathwing
And no, old marines had gak proportions, Primaris stuff makes a lot more sense.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/26 17:44:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 17:55:13
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Fixture of Dakka
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I look at the GK terminators and how gravis or aggresor armour looks like, and I find the later ugly.
How would they get a specific rule set, if they didn't have a separate datasheet which is linked to having DA specific models. Canceling the existance of those would plain and simple mean that GW would remove all marine books very fast, and at best they would be some small addon rule set the way some subfactions are or worse just turned in to a way of painting the model, which would not be very fun for all the people who just play the game and don't paint their models.
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If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 17:58:17
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Karol wrote:I look at the GK terminators and how gravis or aggresor armour looks like, and I find the later ugly.
How would they get a specific rule set, if they didn't have a separate datasheet which is linked to having DA specific models. Canceling the existance of those would plain and simple mean that GW would remove all marine books very fast, and at best they would be some small addon rule set the way some subfactions are or worse just turned in to a way of painting the model, which would not be very fun for all the people who just play the game and don't paint their models.
They already have rules like that in the main Marine Codex.
Certain weapon options are locked to certain chapters, as are certain keywords or rules.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 17:59:50
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Fixture of Dakka
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warhead01 wrote:
That's fair. GW could do the same again with a younger player base holding them up or change directions as
I know that age is suppose to be relative with each century, but I have a feeling that stores aren't full of 12 to 14 year olds right now, all around the world. On the other hand I would not be suprised if someone told me that 1/4 of all players are 30+. In the end, I don't really care what GW does to w40k anymore. They are never going to fix the stuff I like and armies being "fun" to play for some faction equates to quarter of a year sometimes. With how much the game costs, it is really hard to get people back in tot he game, or start the game from zero. There are more fun stuff to with a 1000$, then buying a w40k army.
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If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/26 19:25:30
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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VladimirHerzog wrote:Karol wrote:
They have a different rule set. And I don't get the proportion comment. Termintors are the right size, it is GW that decided to make all post 8th ed models be gigantic in size, so suddenly SoB are taller then marines.
the ruleset can be applied to them without needing a specific datasheet entry.
Get rid of Assault/Tactical/relic terminators for a single datasheet that lets you have all the options, then in the DA rules have the rules for the deathwing
And no, old marines had gak proportions, Primaris stuff makes a lot more sense.
THANK YOU. The current dataslate organization of Terminators is utter garbage, and yes Terminators are terribly proportioned.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/28 07:57:41
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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EviscerationPlague wrote:They just need to consolidate the profiles so everyone wins.
HOWEVER the neckbeards that constantly defend the Manlet Marines would be mad at a First Born elimination. Tough decision.
I think Primaris were a stupid idea for a number of reasons. Calling people who disagree with you "neckbeards" is generally gakky and probably points to your reasoning being spite rather than any higher rationale. Automatically Appended Next Post: EviscerationPlague wrote:Washing Machine Dreadnought sucks. I will die on this hill. They look bad and impractical even by 40k standards. Contemptors and Redemptors look SO much better.
I will say I was initially turned off by the Redemptor but as I've actually seen it in person, they actually have a similar build to a strongman which helped me appreciate it more.
Nah. Boxnaught, Indomitus Termie armor, and MK VI/VII power armor are where it's at.
Gravis armor is a horrible design that looks ridiculous. The flying ones are even worse. Overall, a lot of the primaris kits are trying to look too clean and "tacticool," rather than the psychotic brain-eating fascist shock troops they actually are.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/28 07:59:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/28 14:22:23
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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Shrink-wrap two books, one primaris, one firstborn.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/28 14:30:46
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Fixture of Dakka
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So in order to play a marine faction you would have to buy 2 codex, a faction codex and a campaign book, if GW puts required rules in to it? I mean, I can imagine GW liking such an idea, but it wouldn't be very fun for all marine players, specially when other factions run on 2 books max.
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If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/28 18:56:49
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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If you're responding to Jid's suggestion (and if I'm reading it right), I think the idea would be that the two codices are sold together despite being separate books. The rest...well, that's the same as it is now for most factions that have subfaction codices, isn't it?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/28 19:04:47
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Why.
Look, we all thought GW was gonna bin Firstborn but that ship sailed four years ago. With Heresy’s accidentally-compatible and noticeably upscaled new Firstborn launching why leave 40K money on the table by having a Codex cull?
Any why bother splitting books?
Meh. It’s a clickbait thread anyway!
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/28 20:03:31
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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[DCM]
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Reckon if first born get legended, i'll just play them as 'count as' primaris if needed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/28 23:09:20
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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JohnnyHell wrote:Look, we all thought GW was gonna bin Firstborn but that ship sailed four years ago.
Nah. That boats still at the dock.
No, it's a discussion people are having. You're welcome to contribute to it if you wish.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/29 00:15:19
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Terrifying Doombull
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Yeah, it definitely matters. The SM Codex is overstuffed (and has dependents), so a solution is needed.
Its just a matter of figuring out what's palatable, which is why I like 'your models aren't obsolete, you can use any of <variants> to fill the major datasheets.'
It does the least amount of damage to current or future collections, but makes the book far more functional.
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Efficiency is the highest virtue. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/29 04:20:22
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Thinking on it, I have come to the conclusion that GW is going to have a creative solution to this, something we at most only partly guess at, which will be either brilliant or deeply inane. Naturally the black/white knights will hate/defend whatever happens, but I think GW isn't going to split the middle on this one.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/04/29 05:00:15
Subject: Should GW release Codex: Space Marines with Primaris units only?
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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JohnnyHell wrote:
Why.
Look, we all thought GW was gonna bin Firstborn but that ship sailed four years ago. With Heresy’s accidentally-compatible and noticeably upscaled new Firstborn launching why leave 40K money on the table by having a Codex cull?
Any why bother splitting books?
Meh. It’s a clickbait thread anyway!
Just for practical reasons - it allows you to leave the one at home you don't need, and find stuff quicker.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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