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 lord_blackfang wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Hopefully they will bring their usual offering. Better than army painter and cheaper than Citadel

Those are not high bars

It actually is a high bar, and you know your statement is pretty dishonest. GW is the only company in this hobby that can sell you garbage for two to three times the asking price of a similar product from other competitors and people will still "Well Acktchyually" to defend it because of "Warhammer".

So you're saying that GW is overpriced but it's difficult to be cheaper than GW?

Where did I say it was difficult to be cheaper than GW?

GW can get away with insane prices due to how widespread the "Warhammer" brand is, lack of awareness of other brands, and how diehard many of the GW customers are.

Many products similar or better than the kits, paints, and tools GW makes sell for less, but people still buy the more expensive GW version because "Warhammer".

Being better than Army Painter, but being cheaper than GW is a spot many quite solid/better products sit in, so saying it is a low bar for something to be better than Army Painter but cheaper than GW is an unfair statement.

I made a facetious comment, and he joked back. I don’t think it really warranted this response…

 Flinty wrote:
I made a facetious comment, and he joked back. I don’t think it really warranted this response…

Oof. Looks like I have totally misinterpreted their comment. My apologies lord_blackfang, I am a huge jerk.

All good

Some more info from Juan Hidalgo's YouTube channel:

Gio wrote:How many colours will be available? And will they be price friendly?

Juan Hidalgo wrote:24 colours to begin with, no idea on price sorry

Dash227 wrote: @JuanHidalgo Miniatures Right I'm wondering if it's the same properties as Citadel. Meaning the Speedpaint has the reactivation issue, Citadel Contrast solves that. I'm hoping Vallejos doesn't have reactivation and you can use it just like contrast medium/paints.

Juan Hidalgo wrote:Do you think I would allow them to reactivate? Feth no, not on my watch.

Remember I've been working with them for a year on this

DR. mirage809 wrote:So as I understand it this is Vallejo's answer to Contrast? It looks very good. Finish appears to be a bit more matte than Contrast paints provide. Looking forward to more details.

Juan Hidalgo wrote:Way more matte and can be thinned with water without breaking apart

So I think everything has been answered already, but just in case:

Ask any question you want about the Xpress Color range and I will do my best to answer them

Yes I worked with Vallejo on this for about a year along other very talented people, I'm not a chemist though so I could only test and give input, all credit is for the people working behind the scenes in the lab. The formulation is quite amazing, to me, as good as Contrast in terms of application and effect but matter (which can be good or bad for you) and they are extremely stable when you dilute in water which means you can thin them down to the thinnest of glazes and won't break apart.

Yes there is a Medium obviously.

What will set them apart from the others? Why get them if I already have 4 different lines of "Contrast"?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
What will set them apart from the others? Why get them if I already have 4 different lines of "Contrast"?

For me, personally, the fact they are not aquaphobic, unlike Citadel Contrast paints, is a big(ish) deal. If I can thin them with water, rather than medium, this saves a lot of time and effort but also means I can do more with them.

And the fact that they dry matte, and don't reactivate, has me very interested.

StraightSilver wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
What will set them apart from the others? Why get them if I already have 4 different lines of "Contrast"?

For me, personally, the fact they are not aquaphobic, unlike Citadel Contrast paints, is a big(ish) deal. If I can thin them with water, rather than medium, this saves a lot of time and effort but also means I can do more with them.

And the fact that they dry matte, and don't reactivate, has me very interested.

Fun fact, Contrast isn't aquaphobic, the GW contrast spray is. I thin them with water all the time, over Vallejo primer.

I have found that if you try to thin Contrast paints with water, for things like glazes, it really doesn't go well - the paint just splits apart. I have so far only been able to successfully make glazes using Lahmian or Contrast Medium.

StraightSilver wrote:
I have found that if you try to thin Contrast paints with water, for things like glazes, it really doesn't go well - the paint just splits apart. I have so far only been able to successfully make glazes using Lahmian or Contrast Medium.

Ah well of course it's not going to keep its properties if the majority of your volume is water. This will be true for any brand.

I am able to make glazes using only water from Citadel non-Contrast paints, and other brands, it only seems to be Contrast that has this issue. It sounds like the new Vallejo Xpress paints can also be thinned with water which makes them a very useful tool.

The paints of my dream would have a longer drying time and lay down as smoothly as AP speed paints, but not reactivate or bleed as GW don’t.

I was liking speed paints for a while, but they’ve mostly left my workflow now due to the reactivating and bleeding issues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

StraightSilver wrote:
I am able to make glazes using only water from Citadel non-Contrast paints, and other brands, it only seems to be Contrast that has this issue. It sounds like the new Vallejo Xpress paints can also be thinned with water which makes them a very useful tool.

Contrast paints will spread over slick surfaces when AP speed paints won’t (for example, over a vibrant true metallic base like a tamiya spray metallic). That might be related to why they don’t like mixing wth water, as they must have a very low surface tension.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The paints of my dream would have a longer drying time and lay down as smoothly as AP speed paints, but not reactivate or bleed as GW don’t.

I was liking speed paints for a while, but they’ve mostly left my workflow now due to the reactivating and bleeding issues.

Yeah same. GSW Dipping Inks allegedly hit that sweet spot, but most are a bit thinner than Contrast.

 JHMiniatures wrote:
So I think everything has been answered already, but just in case:

Ask any question you want about the Xpress Color range and I will do my best to answer them

Yes I worked with Vallejo on this for about a year along other very talented people, I'm not a chemist though so I could only test and give input, all credit is for the people working behind the scenes in the lab. The formulation is quite amazing, to me, as good as Contrast in terms of application and effect but matter (which can be good or bad for you) and they are extremely stable when you dilute in water which means you can thin them down to the thinnest of glazes and won't break apart.

Yes there is a Medium obviously.

What do you feel that these paints bring, that Contrast dont?
I have almost the entire Speedpaint line, but i barely use them because i much more prefer contrast.
Ignoring price and availability of vallejo(I love vallejo, they are my favorite brand, but i dont use then as much because they are hard to get) what makes these a worthwhile purchase over Contrast.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 JHMiniatures wrote:
So I think everything has been answered already, but just in case:

Ask any question you want about the Xpress Color range and I will do my best to answer them

Yes I worked with Vallejo on this for about a year along other very talented people, I'm not a chemist though so I could only test and give input, all credit is for the people working behind the scenes in the lab. The formulation is quite amazing, to me, as good as Contrast in terms of application and effect but matter (which can be good or bad for you) and they are extremely stable when you dilute in water which means you can thin them down to the thinnest of glazes and won't break apart.

Yes there is a Medium obviously.

What do you feel that these paints bring, that Contrast dont?
I have almost the entire Speedpaint line, but i barely use them because i much more prefer contrast.
Ignoring price and availability of vallejo(I love vallejo, they are my favorite brand, but i dont use then as much because they are hard to get) what makes these a worthwhile purchase over Contrast.

Well, you already know I also love Contrast, so it's not an easy question to answer, if you love contrast and own them all, maybe this line won't be the one to buy entirely.

That being said, we intentionally created some colours to be a copy of Contrast and others to be original to this line, so it's a great opportunity to get those missing pieces in the hue range.

As for properties, they apply as well as Contrast, because it's impossible to improve on perfection, but they are VERY matte and can be thinned down with water without breaking apart, so to me they are a more versatile tool specially for more experienced painters.

As you two asked the same question, this will answer it.

How do they look over metalics? Saying that they dry very matte gives me some concerns in that direction.

Irdiumstern wrote:
How do they look over metalics? Saying that they dry very matte gives me some concerns in that direction.

I will be honest with you, haven't tried it but yeah I think you might be correct, probably not the tool for that kind of job but maybe mixing it with the metallic paint can work

 JHMiniatures wrote:

As for properties, they apply as well as Contrast, because it's impossible to improve on perfection, but they are VERY matte and can be thinned down with water without breaking apart, so to me they are a more versatile tool specially for more experienced painters..

Does 'as well as Contrast' mean that they're blotchy on flat surfaces, though? I would hope for something more like Speedpaint coverage, but without the reactivation. That would certainly save me some money on sealer, which is how I'm getting around Speedpaint's little issue currently.

 Garfield666 wrote:
After the Army Painter Speedpaint disaster, this could be good.
Although I also like the regular AP paints and washes, so...

Speedpaint is not a disaster, you just need to know how to use it.
It's quirks are highly useful in the right circumstances. I use both Speedpaint and Contrast for different functions. The failed product is Scale 75's Potion series, because it is pissweak..


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 stahly wrote:
Vallejo entering the game? Wow, took them long enough! Really intrigued.

Vallejo is a paints only company and prides itself on getting their core competency right and producing the best quality product they can. I seriously doubt that were slow to react to Contrast paints, but they don't have the scale of economy to do anything ground breaking like GW can, so they generally react rather than innovate.

I suspect the reaction came swiftly, but they have taken their time to make sure their entry is a top tier product from day one. I expected Vallejo to join the contrast party, I expected them to arrive late and I expect their entry to be objectively superior when it comes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I just put 8 Green Stuff World dipping inks in my cart... I'm not taking them out.

Keep them in, but also buy this:

https://www.daler-rowney.com/fw-acrylic-ink/

Link is indicative of product, not recommended purchase source. Buy some or buy them all, you will not regret it.

 Orlanth wrote:

 stahly wrote:
Vallejo entering the game? Wow, took them long enough! Really intrigued.

Vallejo is a paints only company and prides itself on getting their core competency right and producing the best quality product they can. I seriously doubt that were slow to react to Contrast paints, but they don't have the scale of economy to do anything ground breaking like GW can, so they generally react rather than innovate.

I suspect the reaction came swiftly, but they have taken their time to make sure their entry is a top tier product from day one. I expected Vallejo to join the contrast party, I expected them to arrive late and I expect their entry to be objectively superior when it comes.

From just a little way up this page:

Dash227 wrote: @JuanHidalgo Miniatures Right I'm wondering if it's the same properties as Citadel. Meaning the Speedpaint has the reactivation issue, Citadel Contrast solves that. I'm hoping Vallejos doesn't have reactivation and you can use it just like contrast medium/paints.

Juan Hidalgo wrote:Do you think I would allow them to reactivate? Feth no, not on my watch.

Remember I've been working with them for a year on this

So Juan's been working with Vallejo on this for a year as a tester and there's no telling how long they've been working on it before he was brought on board.

 insaniak wrote:

 JHMiniatures wrote:

As for properties, they apply as well as Contrast, because it's impossible to improve on perfection, but they are VERY matte and can be thinned down with water without breaking apart, so to me they are a more versatile tool specially for more experienced painters..

Does 'as well as Contrast' mean that they're blotchy on flat surfaces, though? I would hope for something more like Speedpaint coverage, but without the reactivation. That would certainly save me some money on sealer, which is how I'm getting around Speedpaint's little issue currently.

I never had any issues with contrast on flat surfaces, it's all about technique.

Magic doesn't exist, you cannot lean onto one side with loosing something else


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 stahly wrote:
Vallejo entering the game? Wow, took them long enough! Really intrigued.

Vallejo is a paints only company and prides itself on getting their core competency right and producing the best quality product they can. I seriously doubt that were slow to react to Contrast paints, but they don't have the scale of economy to do anything ground breaking like GW can, so they generally react rather than innovate.

I suspect the reaction came swiftly, but they have taken their time to make sure their entry is a top tier product from day one. I expected Vallejo to join the contrast party, I expected them to arrive late and I expect their entry to be objectively superior when it comes.

From just a little way up this page:

Dash227 wrote: @JuanHidalgo Miniatures Right I'm wondering if it's the same properties as Citadel. Meaning the Speedpaint has the reactivation issue, Citadel Contrast solves that. I'm hoping Vallejos doesn't have reactivation and you can use it just like contrast medium/paints.

Juan Hidalgo wrote:Do you think I would allow them to reactivate? Feth no, not on my watch.

Remember I've been working with them for a year on this

So Juan's been working with Vallejo on this for a year as a tester and there's no telling how long they've been working on it before he was brought on board.

As far as I know, they got me in because Angel Giraldez told them. Speaking about time, I think I joined about half way into the process at the very least.

A lot of people like to think that contrast medium is just flow improver, medium and water... Yeah f*ck no, it's extremely complicated, said by the Vallejo chemist team and I'm paraphrasing:

Contrast Paints are a marvel of paint chemistry

 JHMiniatures wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:
How do they look over metalics? Saying that they dry very matte gives me some concerns in that direction.

I will be honest with you, haven't tried it but yeah I think you might be correct, probably not the tool for that kind of job but maybe mixing it with the metallic paint can work

thanks, I'll just have to give it a shot when they're here.

After the new round of Contrast colours costing me almost $30 of Canadian funny money for THREE pots, I’ll be all over these.
Vallejo is easy to get and plentiful around these parts. Them being a non-spilling dropper bottle, and likely half the cost? Yeah, it’s a no-brainer.
Looking forward to more videos on these JH. You sir are the King of Contrast.

For me the biggest strength of Contrast is that it is a paint with very strong hue that is meanwhile transparent. The whole ,It created shadows by pooling‘ is just marketing bs so noobs buy it and ruin models by slapping too much of this paint on it. It really shines when applied thin over a model with basecoat and zenithal highlight. And for this application all other brands I tried so far (Elixir Paints by Scale and Army paibter) sucked hard. Hoped are high that Vallejo do the job right

Juan's review is LIVE.




Release date is late October/early November according to Juan in the chat on the video.

I love that it has a longer drying time than Contrast, Contrast dries so fast that you can't really go back over areas you have just brushed on without "tearing" the surface.

The video looks good, excited for these to be released!

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
I love that it has a longer drying time than Contrast, Contrast dries so fast that you can't really go back over areas you have just brushed on without "tearing" the surface.

The video looks good, excited for these to be released!

Yeah, that is indeed a great positive, and the video looks like it's going to be a good alternative

I came here to post my video, glad to see it's already been done

 JHMiniatures wrote:
I came here to post my video, glad to see it's already been done

You might want to have a listen to the latest episode of The Long War podcast. They don't mention you by name but they are basically saying that you only criticised Army Painter Speedpaints because of your connections to the Vallejo Xpress paint line.

It's obviously bs, they even refer to AP's re-activation issue as a feature rather than a flaw, so you can see how much their opinion is worth

Thanks for all of the videos by the way, your painting is an inspiration