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I mean, I find it a feature for some things, and they certainly coffee stain a lot less than regular contrasts, so there's something to be said about them.

Saying someone don't like them only because they have been testing another line of paints is a stretch, though.

I'm a Contrast addict and boy do I regret going all in on Scale75's Instants and AP's Speeds. Should have just filled in my Citadel collection for that money.

Ready to be disappointed again.

I'm willing to look at some of these that are different colors then what I have from the Contrast and Scale 75 as I'm pretty happy with both of those and don't see a reason to change things up. But there are some colors both don't have good representation of or do kind of poorly in my opinion (purples for example) so I'm always looking for stuff to augment what I have.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 JHMiniatures wrote:
I came here to post my video, glad to see it's already been done

You might want to have a listen to the latest episode of The Long War podcast. They don't mention you by name but they are basically saying that you only criticised Army Painter Speedpaints because of your connections to the Vallejo Xpress paint line.

It's obviously bs, they even refer to AP's re-activation issue as a feature rather than a flaw, so you can see how much their opinion is worth

Thanks for all of the videos by the way, your painting is an inspiration

I actually love that podcast, but Rob picked an incredibly weird hill to die on regarding Speedpaints. (saying people who complain about re-activation are "using it wrong". And, yes, that is a quote. He's dumb as hell when it comes to paint).

Edit: to be fair I just double checked army painter's speedpaint website and they do officially recommend varnishing over speedpaint if you're going to apply any other acrylics over the top of them. I'm pretty sure I didn't see that when they first came out, but I could be wrong.

Quasistellar wrote:

Edit: to be fair I just double checked army painter's speedpaint website and they do officially recommend varnishing over speedpaint if you're going to apply any other acrylics over the top of them. I'm pretty sure I didn't see that when they first came out, but I could be wrong.

No, it was added after release, when the reactivation issue became widely known.

I mean it's fine as long as people are aware, but the reactivation thing is pretty important for anyone not doing the literal bare minimum with those paints.

Maybe it's me, but I had not reactivation issues at all.
None of my colors did i


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 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 JHMiniatures wrote:
I came here to post my video, glad to see it's already been done

You might want to have a listen to the latest episode of The Long War podcast. They don't mention you by name but they are basically saying that you only criticised Army Painter Speedpaints because of your connections to the Vallejo Xpress paint line.

It's obviously bs, they even refer to AP's re-activation issue as a feature rather than a flaw, so you can see how much their opinion is worth

Thanks for all of the videos by the way, your painting is an inspiration

That's spikey Bitz, the national inquirer of warhammer

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 JHMiniatures wrote:
I came here to post my video, glad to see it's already been done

You might want to have a listen to the latest episode of The Long War podcast. They don't mention you by name but they are basically saying that you only criticised Army Painter Speedpaints because of your connections to the Vallejo Xpress paint line.

It's obviously bs, they even refer to AP's re-activation issue as a feature rather than a flaw, so you can see how much their opinion is worth

Thanks for all of the videos by the way, your painting is an inspiration

Well, they are wrong, the reactivation is a MESS, I really cannot understand how they let a product like that come to market.

Of course they are trying to spin it as a "feature" now, specially the fanboys (or more like GW haters) but the truth is that is far from it, it's a mistake they made and mark my words here: At some point in the future I BET YOU they are going to release the fixed version

Juan saying they dry slower is getting me a bit excited.

That's one of my biggest hates with the Contrast paints, you take a few seconds too long painting one area and when you go back to extend the paint in the other direction it's already started to dry and you get a coffee stain line. Or you wait too long to clean up pooling and get the coffee stains.

AP is far better for that in large part simply because it dries slower, but then comes with the penalty that it may reactivate later.

So if Vallejo's offering has the slow dry time of AP combined with the hard finish of the Contrasts, that sounds good to me.

I'm a bit worried about the comment that it dries very matte, as that's a situational thing, I'd rather the paint be not overly matte nor overly gloss, then push it one way or the other with varnishes if necessary.

Quasistellar wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 JHMiniatures wrote:
I came here to post my video, glad to see it's already been done

You might want to have a listen to the latest episode of The Long War podcast. They don't mention you by name but they are basically saying that you only criticised Army Painter Speedpaints because of your connections to the Vallejo Xpress paint line.

It's obviously bs, they even refer to AP's re-activation issue as a feature rather than a flaw, so you can see how much their opinion is worth

Thanks for all of the videos by the way, your painting is an inspiration

I actually love that podcast, but Rob picked an incredibly weird hill to die on regarding Speedpaints. (saying people who complain about re-activation are "using it wrong". And, yes, that is a quote. He's dumb as hell when it comes to paint).

It's hard to see reactivation as anything other than a flaw. If it came with some magic chemical that reactivated it at will, then that would be a good thing, but just to reactivate all the time with little control over it, yeah, not so much.

It also doesn't reactivate smoothly, I tried to exploit the reactivation to do blending, but the reactivation isn't consistent and the for some colours it comes away in chunks when it reactivates.

A lesser spoken about thing with AP's offering is the bleeding, if you paint 2 colours next to each other, you can be careful and not overlap them, and then come back 10 minutes later and they've bled together. It's again very inconsistent, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't, depending on the colours it may not matter or it may look ugly. On one model I spent some time painting details on a shield, then painted the body of the shield with AP speedpaint purple, and it bled out into the detail work I had done previously, quite annoying.

Edit: to be fair I just double checked army painter's speedpaint website and they do officially recommend varnishing over speedpaint if you're going to apply any other acrylics over the top of them. I'm pretty sure I didn't see that when they first came out, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, that came after people started complaining about it, lol.

AP released a faulty product. It has nothing to do with techniques. If you have to varnish after every step, there is no "speed" in Speedpaint.
I pump out many hundred figures a year for decades so I am rather fast with regular washing and drybrushing techniques. AP was my first taste of the Contrast-like stuff and a huge disappointment.
I will certainly try out some Xpress paints, but I will never go for a whole set at start.

I listend to the Long war Podcast in question.
Rob said pretty much that the reactivation issue was made up, because JHM wanted his video to be popular. That youtube needed it to be popular for him to suceed.
ignoring that a speedpaint video from him was anticipated, because he in the contrast king.

I believe I was the first to point out the reactivation issue in my review video (got 60k views), so definitely not Juan‘s fault.

I think all the very positive reviews of Speedpaint that came first either didn‘t experiment with them thoroughly enough or didn‘t use them in a way that makes reactivating a problem (no glazing, no painting over). An anti-GW bias might have also played its part…

That is another thing, they also said the reactivation is only a problem if you use speedpaints wrong

No idea how BoLs and Spikey Bits are still a thing.....

Literal dumpster fires

 stahly wrote:
I believe I was the first to point out the reactivation issue in my review video (got 60k views), so definitely not Juan‘s fault.

I think all the very positive reviews of Speedpaint that came first either didn‘t experiment with them thoroughly enough or didn‘t use them in a way that makes reactivating a problem (no glazing, no painting over). An anti-GW bias might have also played its part…

I feel like it was mentioned in passing in someone's review, but yours might have been the first to really discuss it in detail and highlight it as a flaw.

Dana Howl put out a video saying the problem was "fixed" if you only used AP's medium to thin whatever paints you applied on top of them, however I tried that and they still reactivated.

I do still prefer AP over Contrast if I need to apply it to a large flat area because it's easier to get a smooth coat with the AP, but yeah, I find myself more and more buying Contrasts to replace my APs rather than buying APs to replace my Contrasts.

If XpressColor has a slower drying time, making it easier than Contrast to apply without the reactivation issue, then I think it's on to a winner.

Yea I guess you don't notice the reactivation issue if all you do is slap one coat all over a model. I guess wanting to use multiple colors on the same mini is "using them wrong"

 TalonZahn wrote:
No idea how BoLs and Spikey Bits are still a thing.....

Literal dumpster fires

Half of human population has below average IQ

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 stahly wrote:
I believe I was the first to point out the reactivation issue in my review video (got 60k views), so definitely not Juan‘s fault.

I think all the very positive reviews of Speedpaint that came first either didn‘t experiment with them thoroughly enough or didn‘t use them in a way that makes reactivating a problem (no glazing, no painting over). An anti-GW bias might have also played its part…

I feel like it was mentioned in passing in someone's review, but yours might have been the first to really discuss it in detail and highlight it as a flaw.

Dana Howl put out a video saying the problem was "fixed" if you only used AP's medium to thin whatever paints you applied on top of them, however I tried that and they still reactivated.

I do still prefer AP over Contrast if I need to apply it to a large flat area because it's easier to get a smooth coat with the AP, but yeah, I find myself more and more buying Contrasts to replace my APs rather than buying APs to replace my Contrasts.

If XpressColor has a slower drying time, making it easier than Contrast to apply without the reactivation issue, then I think it's on to a winner.

Stahly was indeed the first one, if i said it was me I was wrong obviously.

Mine had more repercussion for some reason, and made AP change their marketing, which I'm very happy it did.

Also yeah the Dana's solution is BS, they still reactivate even if you use pure medium, the product is a dumpster fire.

 JHMiniatures wrote:

Stahly was indeed the first one, if i said it was me I was wrong obviously.

Mine had more repercussion for some reason, and made AP change their marketing, which I'm very happy it did.

Also yeah the Dana's solution is BS, they still reactivate even if you use pure medium, the product is a dumpster fire.

While we have you here, I'm curious, do you have an opinion on Scale75's Instant Colors?

 JHMiniatures wrote:
.Mine had more repercussion for some reason, and made AP change their marketing, which I'm very happy it did.

I do seem to remember you and Army Painter having a discussion about the reactivation on Twitter so maybe that's the reason...

https://twitter.com/thearmypainter/status/1496570168666951680

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 JHMiniatures wrote:

Stahly was indeed the first one, if i said it was me I was wrong obviously.

Mine had more repercussion for some reason, and made AP change their marketing, which I'm very happy it did.

Also yeah the Dana's solution is BS, they still reactivate even if you use pure medium, the product is a dumpster fire.

While we have you here, I'm curious, do you have an opinion on Scale75's Instant Colors?

Haven't used them. But i think the colour selection is not very good and the videos showcasing them from Scale75 are horrible.


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 Ghaz wrote:

 JHMiniatures wrote:
.Mine had more repercussion for some reason, and made AP change their marketing, which I'm very happy it did.

I do seem to remember you and Army Painter having a discussion about the reactivation on Twitter so maybe that's the reason...

https://twitter.com/thearmypainter/status/1496570168666951680

Could be, but I'm still happy the company took measures to ensure their clients are well informed, wish they did since the very beginning though

Something interesting from Vallejo about the Game Color range on their Instagram account:

New Formula
Sustainable r-PET Bottles
Intense and Saturated Colors
Matt Finish
Vallejo Paint System BSL

It's that last one that's interesting. I'm assuming 'BSL' stands for 'Base, Shade, Layer'. They've had suggested paint triads in their Game Color pamphlet of regular paints but possible shades sound interesting.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 JHMiniatures wrote:
I came here to post my video, glad to see it's already been done

You might want to have a listen to the latest episode of The Long War podcast. They don't mention you by name but they are basically saying that you only criticised Army Painter Speedpaints because of your connections to the Vallejo Xpress paint line.

It's obviously bs, they even refer to AP's re-activation issue as a feature rather than a flaw, so you can see how much their opinion is worth

Thanks for all of the videos by the way, your painting is an inspiration

Just googled it - saw it's the guy from Spiky Bitz. No need to bother taking any notice.


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 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yea I guess you don't notice the reactivation issue if all you do is slap one coat all over a model. I guess wanting to use multiple colors on the same mini is "using them wrong"

Too many of the current crop of YouTubers are just a wee bit too beholden to just trying to get their videos out first and keeping sweet with potential sponsorships rather than being in-depth or fully truthful in much besides their own self-promotion. Ninjon, who is usually at least bearable did a sponsored-by Army Painter video to show that good results can be achieved using their paints. And to be fair, he did do an excellent job, but he really had to work at it since the paints aren't particularly good/easy to use. I haven't seen him use their paints since then, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeX7ijTBuGM&ab_channel=Ninjon

The result of all this is that the only two Youtubers who I really fully trust when it comes to paints are Stahly and Juan, because of the no-bs, tell-it-like-it-is information that they give viewers. I also don't mind people like Tabletop Minions who doesn't do the promo thing like most of the rest of them, but most of the rest of them might have useful stuff on occastion, or entertaining bits, or good ideas, but have very little credibility when it comes to whatever they're promoting or reviewing/shilling at the time.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 JHMiniatures wrote:
I came here to post my video, glad to see it's already been done

You might want to have a listen to the latest episode of The Long War podcast. They don't mention you by name but they are basically saying that you only criticised Army Painter Speedpaints because of your connections to the Vallejo Xpress paint line.

It's obviously bs, they even refer to AP's re-activation issue as a feature rather than a flaw, so you can see how much their opinion is worth

Thanks for all of the videos by the way, your painting is an inspiration

Just googled it - saw it's the guy from Spiky Bitz. No need to bother taking any notice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yea I guess you don't notice the reactivation issue if all you do is slap one coat all over a model. I guess wanting to use multiple colors on the same mini is "using them wrong"

Too many of the current crop of YouTubers are just a wee bit too beholden to just trying to get their videos out first and keeping sweet with potential sponsorships rather than being in-depth or fully truthful in much besides their own self-promotion. Ninjon, who is usually at least bearable did a sponsored-by Army Painter video to show that good results can be achieved using their paints. And to be fair, he did do an excellent job, but he really had to work at it since the paints aren't particularly good/easy to use. I haven't seen him use their paints since then, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeX7ijTBuGM&ab_channel=Ninjon

The result of all this is that the only two Youtubers who I really fully trust when it comes to paints are Stahly and Juan, because of the no-bs, tell-it-like-it-is information that they give viewers. I also don't mind people like Tabletop Minions who doesn't do the promo thing like most of the rest of them, but most of the rest of them might have useful stuff on occastion, or entertaining bits, or good ideas, but have very little credibility when it comes to whatever they're promoting or reviewing/shilling at the time.

Funny you mention that video of Ninjon. You know what? Army Painter offered me making the same video for quite a lot of money (at least to me) in fact they wanted to make at least three videos with me fully paid for.

I rejected the money after receiving the paints and trying them out. Yes, I COULD get an excellent paintjob out of them but I would have been misrepresenting then to my audience because being a fully paid video and subjected to peer review, I wouldn't have been able to give my honest opinion and they are not a good product at all.

As with any range of course there are some decent paints there but they are few and far between.

That being said the AIR range is AMAZING, SO GOOD. I mean, at this point I would just scrap the old paints and just sell the air range, they are that good.

Yeah, I used to really like the old/original Army Painter paints - the ones with the paint splatter on the label. They were pretty similar to Citadel/Vallejo/etc and nice to use.

Later, I bought the mega-set of new colours, but on arrival I found that they changed the formula to the awful gel-based medium. No idea why they downgraded their product so significantly, but I just don't use them because they're trash. I stil use their lione of Washes ("Tones") since they're still good products.

Ninjon really walked the line and basically came up with "you can use any paints with enough effort" rather than outright endorsing them, though the truth is that they're simply a sub-par tool and savings aren't enough to recommend them over other brands.

I've heard positive things abouit their Air range, but at this point I have a ton of Vallejo Model/Game/Air/Mecha, Citadel, Monument, AK 3rd Gen/etc.. so I don't know if they're ultimately worth bothing with. Do you have a video on them so I can see things like opacity and how they perfrom with a brush for painting/blending/glazing/etc?

 Azazelx wrote:
Yeah, I used to really like the old/original Army Painter paints - the ones with the paint splatter on the label. They were pretty similar to Citadel/Vallejo/etc and nice to use.

Later, I bought the mega-set of new colours, but on arrival I found that they changed the formula to the awful gel-based medium. No idea why they downgraded their product so significantly, but I just don't use them because they're trash. I stil use their lione of Washes ("Tones") since they're still good products.

Ninjon really walked the line and basically came up with "you can use any paints with enough effort" rather than outright endorsing them, though the truth is that they're simply a sub-par tool and savings aren't enough to recommend them over other brands.

I've heard positive things abouit their Air range, but at this point I have a ton of Vallejo Model/Game/Air/Mecha, Citadel, Monument, AK 3rd Gen/etc.. so I don't know if they're ultimately worth bothing with. Do you have a video on them so I can see things like opacity and how they perfrom with a brush for painting/blending/glazing/etc?

No, sorry but I've been extremely impressed so far. Might do one at some point but for the time being my to do list of videos is full

 TalonZahn wrote:
No idea how BoLs and Spikey Bits are still a thing.....

Literal dumpster fires

Some people just like to watch the world burn.

 JHMiniatures wrote:

No, sorry but I've been extremely impressed so far. Might do one at some point but for the time being my to do list of videos is full

No problem. I've got a bunch of Game Air paints but they're ...uneven in quality for brush paints. How would you compare the AP Air to Model Air overall?

Also - maybe it'd be worth contacting them for those sponsored videos to do them with AP Air if the paints are good/excellent instead of their regular line?

I always found most GW centric podcasts and channels to be essentially shills for the most part, and or just plain wrong about most things what certain communities want (also boring because I'd rather see a non GW model every once in awhile). Listing to that particular episode just felt like some sort of weird jealousy going on. Jilted stans or something.

 Azazelx wrote:

 JHMiniatures wrote:

No, sorry but I've been extremely impressed so far. Might do one at some point but for the time being my to do list of videos is full

No problem. I've got a bunch of Game Air paints but they're ...uneven in quality for brush paints. How would you compare the AP Air to Model Air overall?

Also - maybe it'd be worth contacting them for those sponsored videos to do them with AP Air if the paints are good/excellent instead of their regular line?

Pretty sure I burned that bridge with my Xpress Color affiliation