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 LunarSol wrote:


As much as we like to blame unpopular rule changes for these things, the reality is its usually more of a business failing. For all the finger pointing, what really killed Privateer was failing to manage its distribution partners. They made a game that just couldn't be stocked in the average store. There were so many SKUs that had all largely been hugely devalued by online discounters including an absolute glut of niche, expensive kits that most of their business shifted to online sales. While good for the player, it meant that they didn't have a reliable way of getting big initial purchases and the game wasn't reaching new players who pick it up off the shelves. The main reason cited for selling to SFG was simply to gain access to the distribution network SFG had created by getting their board games on store shelves. PP couldn't do it themselves anymore because all those bridges had been burned.

I'd add Star Wars Armada and Star Trek Attack Wing to that. Even before they cancelled Armada some kits were already going for insane prices (Rebel squadrons, Venator) on ebay because they've apparently never been reproduced.
With Attack Wing you had the problem that Wizkids were producing stuff once and then it was pretty much gone. So if you joined the game later on you'd be missing out on stuff from before.
Attack Wing is still going and everything they've produced in the last ten years, game wize, was pretty much fine. But it was always hard to get. Kits would need more than a year to become available in retail in europe, by that time players already found their own ways to get stuff from the USA (because you'd never know if kits would actually be available over here). As a result the playerbase has pretty much dried up.

 Robert Facepalmer wrote:


What hidden gem of the 80s-90s have I forgotten? It must have been truly underground if I can't think of some random blister back, book, supplement, ad from WD/Dungeon/Dragon/Pyramid, or con booth discount bin.

Clan War, Stargrunt, B5 Wars.

 insaniak wrote:
There have been a lot of mini agnostic offerings over the years. They've failed due to (I suspect) a lack of sufficient exposure and lack of an attention-grabbing setting... Because, as proven by GW quite successfully over the years, the quality of your rules is ultimately much less important than how much people are drawn to the game setting.

Couldn't agree more.

Quality of rules has absolutely nothing to do with its success.

I have probably seen one game of Flintloque being played, which is more than i can say for Dark Heaven or a bunch of other 'also rans'.

I am going to be using my flintloque models for silver bayonet

I think why a lot of games die can also ultimately depend on what a FLGS is willing to support and make time for.

In some places games can die out, while in others they flourish. Just this month my FLGS has events for

One Page Rules
SAGA
Carnevale

This is in addition to regular 40k nights. While these events are not as frequent, maybe they'll have a non GW event every 3 months or so. They do happen.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
I think why a lot of games die can also ultimately depend on what a FLGS is willing to support and make time for.

In some places games can die out, while in others they flourish. Just this month my FLGS has events for

One Page Rules
SAGA
Carnevale

This is in addition to regular 40k nights. While these events are not as frequent, maybe they'll have a non GW event every 3 months or so. They do happen.

my store refuses to carry any non-gw wargame, except battletech, and refuses any events for them

A lot of stores are bad. Most of them blame their customers too.

 LunarSol wrote:
A lot of stores are bad. Most of them blame their customers too.

the funny thing is my local store is known asmong the store community for being well known well run store. But the problem is, a well run store for the owner, doesnt always mean a good store for the customer

Well stores are in it for the money obviously. If they lose money and upset customers every time a game folds or supplies for that game are not adequate etc... they will avoid them in the future.

People keep saying its better now... Salute before Covid and now... Thats a good indication how small Indies are just not bothering doing it anymore.

Second games were always there and a strong alternative... now it's just another boardgame, splash game, go print it yourself etc. It's just a quick cash grab and that does not really goes well with longterm investment required for war-games.

Confrontation, Hell dorado, anima tactics, Warhammerhordes, FOW just a few of the things with actual wide catalogues and products that simply gone. I cannot even start naming the dozens of indie games and ranges that simply vanished in silence in the last few years. It's just too many of them.

My local shop is very good, very friendly staff and really broad stock.

But you can see when they've been burned by games in the past - when PP collapsed and had massive supply issues in Europe, every shop in Germany was left sitting on piles of stock (invested money) that they had to heavily discount to shift.

When companies like Mantic do everything on Kickstarter and fill the demand before it even gets to the shops, their stuff sits around unbought until it is sold off cheap again.

GW, and I'm no great defender, consistently sell, rarely have to be discounted and make good profit.

Problem 1: competitive players. WH/40K/WMH/Infinity attract the kinds of players who will obsess over rules decisions, the latest meta, and all of that. If something shifts and makes a new release a must have for their army, lots of them will buy it. Necromunda and Mordheim appeal because while they're janky and can be unbalanced as hell, they still get an opportunity to use bits and models that they already have. And it's sufficient at scratching that "playing a game just for fun" itch.

Problem 2: stores. Stores need to move product. They can think that a game looks cool and invest in it, but they may not have the time or wherewithal to promote the game themselves. If the one testing the waters copy goes to someone who reads it and goes "enh", it won't go anywhere else.

Waaaaay back when, my local store was happy to invest in games like Vor and Void, as well as weird little games like Pirates! But that's because the store manager was a painter and gamer himself, and he was happy to bring people in and host painting nights.

I have a half dozen game stores in easy travel distance of me. They all carry GW stuff and D&D focused minis. Crisis Protocol and SW legion have decent representation, WMH has some legacy stuff on the pegs. I know there's a store an hour south that has a solid Bolt Action player base. Other than that, it's all up to some player trying to drum up enough interest so they can get folks to play against.