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Hmmm...

Seems like Dakka is full of elitism nowadays. Much of the old-vets croon for the old days, casual gamers scoff at tourney players, who in turn scoff at casual gamers.

IMHO, it's definitely changed from the "tournament forum" it used to be, but honestly if we all calm down we'll see Dakka isn't as different as ever.

Polonius wrote:

I'm sure people liked it, but I'm secure enough in my insecurities to wish that there was a way to become a "name" poster without constant drama.

Depends on the reader though as well.

You are a 'name' to me, I don't skim your posts, I've learnt that you often post highly insightful commentary and whether or not I agree with all of it (I'm unaware of ever disagreeing with points you've raised), I do give it time and attention. I'm sure most of us skim over threads in parts until we come across familiar names or avatars and pay them a certain amount more concentration, whether for good or ill.


I think a certain amount of drama is not only inescapable (being as most of us are human), but a wee bit desirable in the old 'bread and circuses' vein. It does give us something to talk about when there aren't any new releases.

Are you not entertained?

I agree that "harsh" modding would be necessary at first. Hours and hours ago I said:

Manchu wrote:I think that a good part of the modding work would be posting this message:

This subject is already being discussed in url= link]this thread[/url]. If you cannot find the information you after posting in that thread, try posting a thread with a more specific title. Remember to always check the Tactics Board Sticky for advice on how to title your thread and to see if the topic you want to know about is already being discussed. Thanks!

And then *thread lock*.

SO you can see that I am pretty much on the same page as DoP when it comes to starting a reorganization. But the goal of my proposal is to foster a culture of self-moderation. The Swap Shop has managed it successfully. No reason why it couldn't be done in tactics, too. If it takes a new mod, fine. But the standards themselves have got to be discussed. Appointing a mod is not step one.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:2. Authority without power is meaningless and empty. If you are granted authority over something without the means to enforce or uphold your authority, you have none in the first place. It reminds me being a West Point cadet....where cadets are assigned "authority" over their peers and are responsible for their actions, but have no authority to either reward or discipline their peers - it makes the position of authority a sham.

Funny, the way I understand Leadership is that by exhibiting the qualities of Leadership you inspire a following on your own merit without having to resort to threats and bribes.

That is a true statement. However, leadership without authority will never be effective. That is also a true statement. Total compliance without authority is impossible without mass hypnosis.

You are getting sleeeeeeepy.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I think a certain amount of drama is not only inescapable (being as most of us are human), but a wee bit desirable in the old 'bread and circuses' vein. It does give us something to talk about when there aren't any new releases.

Are you not entertained?

It's entertaining to a point, but then someone gets their feelings hurt and gets all serious on you or it just gets old. I take great pains to eliminate drama irl, and don't find a lot of need for it online. That's just me though, maybe.

---

I've taken to letting people know via PM when they post something that I really enjoyed. Maybe if more of us did that people would feel more appreciated for their posts.

What the heck? Isn't this the general attitude towards warseer? People are dumb. Dakkdakka is fine.

I've never really heard anyone talk down dakkadakka. How dare they?

Nurglitch wrote:Manchu:

If the moderators were oriented towards enforcing standards of content, then quality threads wouldn't be buried in a mountain of dross. Cutting out Off-Topic would free up moderator time to moderate the forums that are actually pertinent to the site. Let people 'blow off steam' elsewhere on the internet.

Regarding the duplication of threads, I always thought that the article system was wasted. It could have been used to collate and archive thread data, such as common rules disputes and questions and common tactics and whatnot, but it's really an invisible part of the site. Whenever I propose measues to make Dakka Dakka a resource for gamers rather than for campers like Gwar to stroke their own egos, I get told the moderators are too busy, and then a new non-game-related flamepit forum opens up.

Speaking of using Dakka as their personal playgrounds, it used to just be Frazzled, but I'm baffled at how otherwise good moderators like Killkrazy have started posting troll threads.

I totally agree with you. Dakka would be a much better place if Gwar and those like him were not a part of it.

It would also be nice if Dakka would get out of bed with Romeo and Battlefoam.

NecronLord3 wrote:It would also be nice if Dakka would get out of bed with Romeo and Battlefoam.

A bed. Made out of Battlefoam.

Dashofpepper wrote:Enforcement is key though - Killkrazy (and others?) have pointed out that their stickies are ignored.

It would take a bunch of threads getting this message, "Greetings OP! Welcome to the Tactics forum. Please see the stickied thread at the top of the page. If you did a quick search through it, you would have seen that this thread is already under discussion here <link>. Please reference the Tactics Index before creating duplicate threads in the future.

*lock*

Bingo, they just learned to use the Tactics Index. 25 people click on the thread to see why it was locked and see that they should use the tactics index as well - and they will use it before creating new threads in the future too, realizing that duplicate threads will get locked.

(snip)

And sooner than you think, traffic is cleaner.

Tactics isn't the only place that needs help. The army list section needs help, so does General Discussion. Signal to Noise there is out of control.

I think the swapshop is the only area of the site where certain titles are required. It takes a *lot* of work to enforce this, and from our experience a lot of times it's easier just to edit the title without posting in the thread. Otherwise, half the replies in the forum are from mods about titles!

When we're implementing a change (like recently with bumps) we post more often, but this can rub people the wrong way and isn't a long-term solution.

I think posting that message in people's threads would discourage lots of posters, especially new ones.

I'm also not sure if people want title standards for the rest of the site, or if it's needed. Again, Dakka is pretty loose and easy-going for the most part, and this kind of enforcement is done elsewhere... I just don't see that as being how Dakka is, or should be.

It's different in sections with very, very clear (and narrow) purposes and guidelines, like the gallery or the swapshop. The rest of the site is for lots of different kinds of things, and is more broad- and thus hard (and imho, impractical) to enforce the kinds of things you're suggesting.

The mods have mentioned that some of these things have given them ideas, which is great. However, a lot of the ideas being mentioned involve (as I said above) a *lot* of work. I think Manchu is on the right track about doing this as a user thing. Make a thread, gather all of the information you're talking about, and who knows maybe it'll get stickied! Either way you can reference / link to it. But I don't personally think that adding more moderation (and/or more mods) and title standards to the rest of the site is the right way to go at all...

Monster Rain wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:It would also be nice if Dakka would get out of bed with Romeo and Battlefoam.

A bed. Made out of Battlefoam.

You mean like this:

Lol KR multicase foam:

I prefer KR foam because it is softer...

Monster Rain wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:It would also be nice if Dakka would get out of bed with Romeo and Battlefoam.

A bed. Made out of Battlefoam.

I don't think Dakka has a choice. They don't get to pick what advertisements they get, it's up to the domain controller or something. It's nice that dakka gets actually useful advertisements as opposed to 'meet hot young singles in your area' and 'make your own zwinky!'

RiTides wrote:I think Manchu is on the right track about doing this as a user thing. Make a thread, gather all of the information you're talking about, and who knows maybe it'll get stickied! Either way you can reference / link to it. But I don't personally think that adding more moderation (and/or more mods) and title standards to the rest of the site is the right way to go at all...

*shrugs* To each their own. I've gone the distance to try bringing something useful and helpful to Dakka. Hundreds of hours and sweat and blood and sleeplessness and procrastination of work. I'm happy to give ideas here, but nothing promotes the abandonment of a good idea like the inability to implement it. The last thing any section of the forums needs is a "team" of people to internally discuss how to index or sort something before finally coming to agreement about what to posit forth to someone else who will ultimately eventually probably disregard it.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:It would also be nice if Dakka would get out of bed with Romeo and Battlefoam.

A bed. Made out of Battlefoam.

I don't think Dakka has a choice. They don't get to pick what advertisements they get, it's up to the domain controller or something. It's nice that dakka gets actually useful advertisements as opposed to 'meet hot young singles in your area' and 'make your own zwinky!'

No I'm fairly certain that they do. Even lets say they don't, for argument's sake, they don't have to lock every negative Battlefoam thread. Now that I've mentioned it, let the countdown begin.

I dunno, Dash- many of us devote hours every week to contributing content to the site... honestly, a lot of the moderating side of things just comes down to deleting things, sending PMs about the rules... it's not grand, and it's not really what I see as "Dakka". For me, that's the ideas and content we all post... not what the mods are doing (or not doing).

DakkaCon, for example, is an unofficial thing that a bunch of Dakka members want to do, and are making happen. Imho, that's how the best ideas happen on this site... how it's always been, and always will be! Rather than enforcing more rules or policies (whether about titles or content) other than the basic "be polite".

Just my $0.02, of course...

Dashofpepper wrote:

RiTides wrote:I think Manchu is on the right track about doing this as a user thing. Make a thread, gather all of the information you're talking about, and who knows maybe it'll get stickied! Either way you can reference / link to it. But I don't personally think that adding more moderation (and/or more mods) and title standards to the rest of the site is the right way to go at all...

*shrugs* To each their own. I've gone the distance to try bringing something useful and helpful to Dakka. Hundreds of hours and sweat and blood and sleeplessness and procrastination of work. I'm happy to give ideas here, but nothing promotes the abandonment of a good idea like the inability to implement it. The last thing any section of the forums needs is a "team" of people to internally discuss how to index or sort something before finally coming to agreement about what to posit forth to someone else who will ultimately eventually probably disregard it.

I'm not disagreeing with DoP about needing authority--this will take a mod to make happen. Swap Shop is a lot of work, I know. I just don't know why other boards could not also benefit from a lot of work. What you're disreharding, DoP, is that without some kind of consensus you'll be accused with good cause of being a self-aggrandizer. I think you'll find that real communities work with teams, not solo "men of action."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RiTides wrote:DakkaCon, for example, is an unofficial thing that a bunch of Dakka members want to do, and are making happen. Imho, that's how the best ideas happen on this site... how it's always been, and always will be! Rather than enforcing more rules or policies (whether about titles or content) other than the basic "be polite".

Just my $0.02, of course...

But that's not how you guys straightened out Swap Shop, either.

Good point, Manchu. I guess my view is that the rest of the site doesn't need straightening out, and that better tactics discussion and the like can be accomplished by generating more "good" content (or pointing people to where it's already been generated) rather than by more moderation.

I can only say again that much of the "good" content is indeed drowned out. And that drowning out is undermining the purpose of the sub-fora.

I agree that the messianic search fix will help a lot, however.

I find the .... irony in the fact that there are two versions of the same thread in the top 10 most recent posts this morn. I also am amused that one of them contains a poll. Just... funny.

the_ferrett wrote:I find the .... irony in the fact that there are two versions of the same thread in the top 10 most recent posts this morn. I also am amused that one of them contains a poll. Just... funny.

That was the point of KK's joke.

Hellfury wrote:

Frazzled wrote:But all I see here is people who have been suspended or warned by Mods griping about the Mods or how they themselves can't zap people.

Show me and tell the world how many times I have been warned.

*crickets chirp*

Thats what I thought.

+1.

In the multi years (5+ at least - 3 diff versions of dakka) I have been here I have had about 2 warnings and each one was deserved during some fun flame festing. If fact I think I have had less warnings or suspensions than you Frazz so suck it - funny that - less suspensions than a MOD. Talk about topsy turvy. Actually talk about idiotic. I wonder if you have had less suspensions than GWAR - now that would be frikking funny.

Keep up the uninformed comments Frazz as you just keep proving my extremely low opinion of your suitability to be a MOD.

RiTides wrote:Good point, Manchu. I guess my view is that the rest of the site doesn't need straightening out, and that better tactics discussion and the like can be accomplished by generating more "good" content (or pointing people to where it's already been generated) rather than by more moderation.

Not true.....its been explained time and again by quite a few parties now.

Dashofpepper wrote:It would take a bunch of threads getting this message, "Greetings OP! Welcome to the Tactics forum. Please see the stickied thread at the top of the page. If you did a quick search through it, you would have seen that this thread is already under discussion here <link>. Please reference the Tactics Index before creating duplicate threads in the future.

*lock*

Bingo, they just learned to use the Tactics Index. 25 people click on the thread to see why it was locked and see that they should use the tactics index as well - and they will use it before creating new threads in the future too, realizing that duplicate threads will get locked.

And then tomorrow, when those threads have moved off the front page, the whole saga starts again.

Not saying it won't help, but it's not the easy and instant fix that you seem to be suggesting. As evidenced by the fact that I'm still moving rules questions from 40K Discussions on pretty much a daily basis, despite the sticky that's been there for months now.

NecronLord3 wrote:It would also be nice if Dakka would get out of bed with Romeo and Battlefoam.

The what to the who now?

the_ferrett wrote:I find the .... irony in the fact that there are two versions of the same thread in the top 10 most recent posts this morn. I also am amused that one of them contains a poll. Just... funny.

you should also find it amusing that one of those threads was started by a moderator as a troll.

Athera wrote:

the_ferrett wrote:I find the .... irony in the fact that there are two versions of the same thread in the top 10 most recent posts this morn. I also am amused that one of them contains a poll. Just... funny.

you should also find it amusing that one of those threads was started by a moderator as a troll.

That's the most amusing thing about it.

Dashofpepper wrote:

RiTides wrote:Good point, Manchu. I guess my view is that the rest of the site doesn't need straightening out, and that better tactics discussion and the like can be accomplished by generating more "good" content (or pointing people to where it's already been generated) rather than by more moderation.

Not true.....its been explained time and again by quite a few parties now.

Having read both threads I am with DofP on this (I know, don't faint).

I am in the camp of more moderation, but the key word is effective. A more effective tactics forum with closed down threads where required would be a good idea. After a while people would get "trained" by having posts locked. A "like" function that displaces the number of "likes" would be useful. As some one who went into the tactics forum when trying to get back into v5 i think I lasted 10 minutes and have never been back since. DofP, if this isn't your position it isn't because I haven;t read the posts it is because I am senile and cannot remember who is proposing what anymore and I am a dork.

I recently found myself embroiled in a very unintentional and childish argument on a thread about EmpChild's design contest.

I was very disappointing to have a mod post in there without attempting to calm things down... I try to be very well behaved on this site, as I appreciate the distraction and entertainment it provides, but more and more often I find just about any thread gets derailed with pissyness and people who respond to your posts based on the first line, not even bothering to read the whole thing...

No one wants to discuss anything, just tell other people what they think and that's it... in that thread I am probably guilty of coming off that way, however unintentionally. which sucks as I have seen there are plenty of intelligent, well spoken lads on the site I would love to have a proper, civil debate with.

Cryonicleech wrote:Hmmm...

Seems like Dakka is full of elitism nowadays. Much of the old-vets croon for the old days,

Not this one. The old Dakka was a shark pit and the moderation sucked and it was full of people sharpening their epeen; which on reflection seems a strange metaphor. Todays MOD's are pretty good (except one, just got to get that cheap shot in) and I think overall they do a good job considering it is unpaid. Alph particularly when he joins in a an antagnostic thread still maintains a good hold on the bile and the new crop of MOD's over the last year have done well IMHO.

I'm clearly a noob here and have no recollection of the good ol' days, but as a member one suggestion I've seen that makes a great deal of sense is with respect to modifying forum structure: any time I have a question or thought I attack the Search button first,but it might be very useful to have things such as army specific forums and more stickies for the most "authoritative" positings or threads. Since that could lead to infinite stickies, perhaps there should be a "best of the best" section that moderators can place on their own that can't be modified, with a separate area within the same thread for good, "academic," and intelligent wargame discussion. One problem for new users may be that sometimes it's tough to know where to start, while the seasoned Dakka veterans have literally read most posts that have ever been on Dakka within their personal interest bubble.... noobs don't always have this frame of reference, and the Search button by itself cannot provide it either.

Dashofpepper wrote:

RiTides wrote:Good point, Manchu. I guess my view is that the rest of the site doesn't need straightening out, and that better tactics discussion and the like can be accomplished by generating more "good" content (or pointing people to where it's already been generated) rather than by more moderation.

Not true.....its been explained time and again by quite a few parties now.

It's a good point, and it's definitely given me a lot to think about as far as what I contribute to the other sections of the site.

That's got to be the best thing to come out of threads like this- giving people more to think about and possibly bringing about change for the better. However, I don't completely agree with your take on what would make the site better, and I guess I was trying to point out from my experience what I thought was good and what could be implemented in other ways.

Imho, it's a bit silly to say you'll only work towards these kinds of things if given a position of authority. That doesn't show commitment to the idea. In your cadet example, often future leaders are chosen as "peer leaders"- even if it's a hard thing to pull off, leading by example is a very good way of starting things off.

But like I said, lots to think about...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:I would think the Like/Dislike option would work.

So Dakka becomes a popularity contest? I fail to see that helping things.

Pretending some basement-dweller named "Kelets" appears and actually has good tactical advice, how would his +/- rating be interpreted?

Would Kelets' positive tactical acumen outweigh his negative behavior?

I was thinking the "like" would be for the thread not the poster. Why have a dislike - simply the lack of "likes" would suffice and therefore no negativity yet achieving same effect.

Reecius wrote:@MagickalMemories

You are correct. You do not have to rely on insults to get your point across. Look at Shep. He presents great advice and tactics and does so in a respectful way. So does Yakface. That is fine. I do think though, that a little bit of sass helps to put a sense of accountability in people. If you know you're gonna get ribbed a bit, you think twice before spouting something off.

I know not everyone is as thick skinned as me, but I think that is perfectly reasonable.

Did we just agree, disagree AND agree to disagree? All at the same time? Without arguing or calling names?

OMG! What is Dakka coming to? : )

Eric