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I wonder what the financial figures will look like this time next year and if it really will impact GW.

They are obviously thinking

"Stop UK retailers selling our products cheaply to other countries and this will obviously make gamers buy from GW Stores at our crazy prices"

Don't think it's gonna work quite that easy.

ok, so on the Rachkam forum, they had a couple moderators in the USA, who did bulk orders from Rackham (people had to prepay them first via paypal or cash in person) and then arranged to send stuff out to whomever ordered it.

Time to set something like that up.

I get stuff with a 20% discount off the USA price already so i think that ends up being the same as Maelstrom or better anyways.

Sanjay

The following ways around this seem possible:
1. Forwarding address - this is not ideal as you would still need UK payment details unless paypal will hide your address so that retailers are not forced to filter when they can detect it.
2. Ebay middlemen - these will be the real winners in all this - it only takes one person with a UK connection to be able to sell to the whole of a nation. Shipping will be a lot slower obviously, but it cannot be prevented and the UK retailers will not be able to detect it at all.
3. Forum collectives - I'm sure people will pop up as mail forwarders on behalf of other users in exchange for a small commission, trades, etc. I'm surprised one has not already popped up in the DCM forum already actually!

That's just off the top of my head. People ordering from overseas are already used to waiting thanks to shipping and customs, I dont see an extra week here or there making much of a difference once the supply lines get established.

legoburner wrote:The following ways around this seem possible:
1. Forwarding address - this is not ideal as you would still need UK payment details unless paypal will hide your address so that retailers are not forced to filter when they can detect it.
2. Ebay middlemen - these will be the real winners in all this - it only takes one person with a UK connection to be able to sell to the whole of a nation. Shipping will be a lot slower obviously, but it cannot be prevented and the UK retailers will not be able to detect it at all.
3. Forum collectives - I'm sure people will pop up as mail forwarders on behalf of other users in exchange for a small commission, trades, etc. I'm surprised one has not already popped up in the DCM forum already actually!

That's just off the top of my head. People ordering from overseas are already used to waiting thanks to shipping and customs, I dont see an extra week here or there making much of a difference once the supply lines get established.

Is all that really worth the trouble, instead of just playing something else? I don't. And I don't think new players will either.

Its going to kick the "new player" market squarely in the face.

Here is the letter that I will be mailing (constructive suggestions may be welcome)


To whom it may concern,


I am writing you this day to express my utter and complete disgust and frustration at the announced decision by Games Workshop to ban all Internet retailers in the United Kingdom from selling to countries outside of the European Union. As I am a Canadian customer, this directly affects me.

I have been playing Games Workshop games for over a decade now, and have been purchasing Citadel products for the same amount of time. I was introduced to the games through the efforts of your retail arm, specifically the Games Workshop store at Mapleview Mall in Burlington, Ontario (now closed). I had many enjoyable days learning the hobby and learning the game systems both with the employees there and the other customers.

A decade later, I was still playing the games, and introduced my wife and my son to the hobby as well, and it provided a good number of family game nights as their High Elves and Dwarfs would try to defeat my Orcs.

Because of work, I accepted a church position on a semi-remote part of the British Columbia coast. The nearest Independent Retailer is a forty minute ferry ride and two and a half hour drive through rugged mountainous terrain. As such, Internet retailers like Maelstrom Games and Wayland Games were vital to our continued enjoyment of the hobby. Primarily because of the low economic impact that they had upon us. Since moving out here, our food prices have increased by a third due to the remote location we live in, and due to the economic downturn money has been exceedingly tight. Citadel products were still affordable despite the annual, and seemingly inexplicable price increases because of Internet retailers from the United Kingdom. Retailers from Canada and the United States have good pricing value, but as a consumer with bills to pay and a family to feed I had to shop where my money got the most mileage, to use a colloquial expression.

Furthermore, I had hoped to offer a gaming club out here for local members of the communities that I serve, both youth and adult. Primarily, the communities I work with are Aboriginal, of the Kwakwaka'wakw peoples (specifically the Kwakiutl, 'Namgis, and
Musgamagw Tsawataineuk First Nations). Sadly, there are many challenges facing members of these communities, and while there are many opportunities for people to have hobbies, there are none like gaming clubs. Perhaps naively, I thought it would offer one more option for people to develop friendships and skills to avoid alternatives like drug and alcohol abuse. I was prepared to pay for most of these supplies out of my own pocket as disposable income for many people out here is almost non-existent

For the past year or three I have seen some quite inexplicable business decisions made by Games Workshop, not just limited to increasing price rises, a lack of a comprehensible marketing strategy, and perceived general contempt and lack of respect for customers as consumers. Since I as a customer do not feel respected and the value of goods for my money has reached its breaking point I shall share with you what I shall do:
1)I shall never at any point purchase a Games Workshop or Citadel product again.
2)I shall purchase the rulebooks for Warmachine by Privateer Press, and the Open Fire starter set from Battlefront Miniatures to learn the game system. I shall purchase them from Maelstrom Games and Wayland Games.
3)I shall write both the aforementioned game companies a letter with a project outline of my plan to introduce their hobbies to the communities I work in. Not as an attempt to solicit product but so that I may inform them of my intentions and attempts to offer hobby alternatives.


My memories of playing Games Workshop games are very fond, and for my wife and son's sake I shall continue to play the odd game of Warhammer Fantasy Battles. But only for their sakes, and not for any other reason.

It is my hope that in the future the decision makers in Games Workshop corporate will get more in touch with their players rather than act in an oblivious and contemptuous manner.


Sincerely,
(Mithrax's Signature)

Edited to correct one or two errors I found already.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:Its going to kick the "new player" market squarely in the face.

Heh, what new players? I haven't met any in my city in years.

Poor Maelstrom. They're getting pig roasted by GW and BF.

Nah. Don't feel sorry for us - we'll get over it, just like we got over:

1) GW's decision to stop us selling their products on eBay in 2009
2) Their reduction of trade sales prices by 10% the same year to internet retailers
3) Their decision to limit us to one order a week
4) Their further reduction of trade prices by 6% in 2010
5) Battlefront's decision not to sell to us

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

And, as many people have pointed out, there are many ways to get around this latest decision. Not that we can condone such a thing publicly.

Regardless, I'd like to say thank you to all those Rest of the World customers on Dakka who have supported us over the years - you will not be forgotten, and I apologise to you all that we cannot bring our service to you in the future.

Don't forget, too, that you can still buy everything else that's good in wargaming from us regardless of GW's decision.

Cheers

Rob Lane
MD, Maelstrom Games

Here's GWS office response: Pick up the can, citizen.

obsidianaura wrote:Not sure how this works out cheaper.

When buying from UK resellers a small amount at a time, then having to pay the shipping cost of having it sent to places like Australia and works out cheaper than buying it from local resellers who would be getting goods from the UK in bulk. (Maybe even cheaper if it's coming from a factory closer by.)

Resellers in Oz buy direct from GW OZ (well, those who aren't buying from overseas distributors because GW OZ won't give them a trade account or is too expensive). This thing is, GW OZ sets the wholesale prices... and they're not 50% of retail. Retail mark-up here is about 30%. But in most cases, the Oz wholesale price is around about equivalent to UK retail, due to the prices being set back when the Oz dollar was rubbish, and also in part due to Australians by and large having more free cash to spend on luxuries... so they charge what they think they can get away with.

So for stores like Maelstrom, that offer a discount plus free worldwide shipping, it's substantially cheaper to order from halfway around the world than to walk down the street and buy from a local store.

Which is nuts, but that's the way it is. Not everyone goes that route (GW OZ still brings in a disproportionate amount of money compared to the much larger markets in the US and UK) but obviously either enough were doing it for it to start to become a problem, or the few remaining Australian games stores were complaining loudly enough for GW to decide they needed to do something about it.


It's a backwards solution, IMO, as it doesn't solve the underlying problem. Those people who already buy from Oz stores won't be affected in the slightest by this. Those buying from overseas will either stop buying, buy from alternate sources like eBay, or will not buy as much. So the local stores, who were already struggling at making a profit out of this stuff in a highly competitive and comparatively low-margin market, gain practically nothing.

A better solution, IMO, would have been a lowering of OZ retail (it doesn't have to be exactly on par with the rest of the world, just not ridiculously higher) and more effort put into improving Australian stores to make them places that gamers want to go to. Building an Oz casting plant (which has been discussed on and off since the early '90s, but has just never happened) would surely be a help as well, since it would remove the extra expense of shipping product from the US or UK and import tarifs and taxes. But no, regionalising sales and increasing prices seems to be the Codex-approved solution.

Noisy_Marine wrote:Poor Maelstrom. They're getting pig roasted by GW and BF.

Don't worry about Maelstrom.

They will more than make up in Infinity and Mantic sales what they lose in 40K.

I just read the Maelstrom email. Wow, just wow. Is this Maelstrom specific or everyone like the rumour suggested?

I am vindicated.


And I feel terrible for it.


'Outrage' isn't really the word that can be used to express what I feel right now. It's more a simultaneous feeling of being surprised, yet completely unsurprised. I will be writing to GW (physical letter) to both GWUK and GWOZ to express my dissatisfaction with this decision.

For now though I'll simply sum up my thoughts in the most vulgar way possible:

Games Workshop - GO F**K YOURSELVES!

Uhmm, although i quit the GW hobby last year i've been lurkin dakka/WS for whatever news of new miniatures GW makes.
The sole reason i quit the GW hobby was because of their annual price rises, i started buying from GW ca Q1 2009, when 5th ed WH40K was still kinda young. I thought the prices for their products back then was manageable for my wallet, so i bought kinda large sums of mini's (atleast 1500+ SEK worth of minis each month). I continued to do so until their price rises started to happen, and for GW's "sorry for the 15-20% price increase but we have been doing bad this quarter, please, GO BUY MOAR MINIS SO WE CAN MAKE NEW ONES!" seemed to be their sole reason for their price hikes. So i began to shift down om my GW spending each month, down to 500~ SEK.
I continued to do so til i saw another one of those price hikes, what's the reason now i thought? "Oh, the british £ have gone down, so we gotta charge more for our minis! sorry ;_;". I the took the decision to quit solely because of their price hikes.
Seeing the rumours on the metal to resin shift just screams "sorry, because of the shift to resin, we will have to charge a little extra for the minis, molding equipment isn't cheap!" excuse.
Now, with the ban on shipping to other countries embargo, i think to myself "I got out in time."
I feel sorry for all the players who lives in the countries affected of this embargo.

tl;dr warning alas ;_;

I am trying not to post too much at the moment until we have our response prepared. I fully echo Rob's sentiments.

We both build solid, legal, well respected businesses whilst your main supplier actively plots your demise.

Ironically the supplier has an ethical trade policy.

Izual wrote:Uhmm, although i quit the GW hobby last year i've been lurkin dakka/WS for whatever news of new miniatures GW makes.
The sole reason i quit the GW hobby was because of their annual price rises, i started buying from GW ca Q1 2009, when 5th ed WH40K was still kinda young. I thought the prices for their products back then was manageable for my wallet, so i bought kinda large sums of mini's (atleast 1500+ SEK worth of minis each month). I continued to do so until their price rises started to happen, and for GW's "sorry for the 15-20% price increase but we have been doing bad this quarter, please, GO BUY MOAR MINIS SO WE CAN MAKE NEW ONES!" seemed to be their sole reason for their price hikes. So i began to shift down om my GW spending each month, down to 500~ SEK.
I continued to do so til i saw another one of those price hikes, what's the reason now i thought? "Oh, the british £ have gone down, so we gotta charge more for our minis! sorry ;_;". I the took the decision to quit solely because of their price hikes.
Seeing the rumours on the metal to resin shift just screams "sorry, because of the shift to resin, we will have to charge a little extra for the minis, molding equipment isn't cheap!" excuse.
Now, with the ban on shipping to other countries embargo, i think to myself "I got out in time."
I feel sorry for all the players who lives in the countries affected of this embargo.

tl;dr warning alas ;_;

That's nothing. I still have models from when a blister of 5 aspect warriors was $8.99 and a blister box of 7 Troopers + full command section was like $18. 30 Marines were $30 and you got 2 rhinos for $15.

And Greenskins looked like proper greenskins.

I recently placed an order with Maelstrom for some infinity models for myself and a friend.

We spent 160 pounds for two 300 pt armies...more than enough for beginners to the game but the models were just two pretty. This purchase will allow us to play large scale games of Infinity and better yet we can split our armies and introduce others to the game.

We then downloaded the FREE rulebook from the Infinity website and used the FREE army builder that you can use online or download.

All in all we feel that by making the choice to try a different game we have stumbled into a different hobby altogether, one where the company that makes the game actually wants you to play and enjoy it.

I realize that GW is a business and needs to provide a return to their investors, but I share the bewilderment of many others on this thread as to the why they would do such a vindictive thing to their southern hemisphere customer base.

George Spiggott wrote:I just read the Maelstrom email. Wow, just wow. Is this Maelstrom specific or everyone like the rumour suggested?

Everyone.

I'm guessing that the US online retailers didn't get hit because GW thinks they killed them in July, 2003?

derek wrote:I'm guessing that the US online retailers didn't get hit because GW thinks they killed them in July, 2003?

they killed enough of them that it's down to the "people that aren't paying full retail are the ones that aren't going to pay it under any circumstances."

Boggles the mind that GW can hold management meetings, get through the whole thing without ever thinking "I wonder what consumer opinion will be?" Do the share-holders know about that, one wonders?

Maybe a bloc of Aussie gamers should start buying shares with the money they save by not buying the toys? Then GW might have to take more notice when they screw them over.

Anyone know - are its still possible do current DE pre-orders from Mael? (they become available ~4 June or so)

Oh dear GW, I don't care if you are in it for the money this decision is just silly :(

1) GW's decision to stop us selling their products on eBay in 2009
2) Their reduction of trade sales prices by 10% the same year to internet retailers
3) Their decision to limit us to one order a week
4) Their further reduction of trade prices by 6% in 2010
5) Battlefront's decision not to sell to us

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. [Quote/]

Agreed

So they don't have online retailers in Australia, just GW?

I must admit I can't think of many other companies that try so very very hard to limit who can purchase their products or reduce their customer base.

Typeline wrote:This is a fun game we get to play out now. How high can you raise your prices on your product until your customer just starts reproducing it on their own? Kneadite is cheap, recasting techniques are getting easier and cheaper as time goes a long. All you need is a few bits and you're in business.

Not that I'm advocating or take part in unscrupulous behavior I just like the idea of GW beheading themselves.

I havent bought full retail from GW in years, as their prices are rediculous. They wonder why their profits go down quarter after quarter. Their business practices are a sham. White dwarf went from fun to adds for triple the price it was not long ago. And sadly im with HBMC on this that im suprisingly unsuprised at this move. Its kind of like letting a murderer off on early parole and you open up the paper a month later to find whops he killed again. The only thing im looking forward to anymore from GW is warhamemr 40k online. Although my expectations are no longer what they were. I guess thats good, its harder to be disapointed that way.

Orock wrote:The only thing im looking forward to anymore from GW is warhamemr 40k online. Although my expectations are no longer what they were. I guess thats good, its harder to be disapointed that way.

Is it because the entire MMO industry charges roughly $15 US a month for subscription fees, but you know that since it's GW it'll be $30-$45?

Considering this and all the other recent...innovative decisions, I am genuinely puzzled.
Just how long can the GW management defend their positions for the shareholders?
There must be a limit to how long you can state "yes, we have made some improvements/cuts
and things should be markedly better by next year".