Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

ColdSadHungry wrote:Having to file away bits is different to having to add things that should be there already. Especially since those things were there on the metals and probably are there on some of the other Finecast models of the exact same type.

Added to which, competently moulded models should have absolute minimal mould lines and flash anyway, since both of those are a sign of wear or poor alignment of the mould.

insaniak wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:Having to file away bits is different to having to add things that should be there already. Especially since those things were there on the metals and probably are there on some of the other Finecast models of the exact same type.

Added to which, competently moulded models should have absolute minimal mould lines and flash anyway, since both of those are a sign of wear or poor alignment of the mould.

Why do they get mould slippage anyway? Don't these things have locator pins? Or is that too obvious a question?

ancientsociety wrote: Do Not Feed The Troll

Thanks for the advice, but although I think Jani might indeed have been trolling, getting information out there can help clear up some of the misconceptions, and I tend to err on the side of caution when assuming the intent of others.

carmachu wrote:

Fetterkey wrote: Once people realize that Finecast is, in fact, superior to the old metal models, I think this sort of move will just look embarrassing, and Wayland will have to quickly alter their policies or else drift out of touch.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHA.....

Oh man, you kill me. Finecast has a ways to go before that in fact, gets anywhere near proven.

It's already the case for most players-- simply working with Finecast models and contrasting that to one's experience with metal is usually enough to make a new convert! People in real life don't complain about Finecast to anywhere near the extent we've seen here. In fact, I have yet to hear anybody have anything but praise for Finecast in person-- it seems, at least to me, like this is the typical anti-GW Dakka hivemind taking its toll. Mikhaila (who's almost certainly talked to more people than I about this) also reports that the reaction he's seen in person has been generally positive, and "nowhere near the negative reaction on Internet forums." While it may be trendy or cool to hate GW on here, you have to realize that many of their moves can, in fact, be positive, and that Internet complaints aside, the reaction to Finecast is quite good.

I'm reminded of the initial Finecast review on here which said that overall Finecast was an improvement over metal (while also discussing some flaws with the material and process)-- people took that to mean that Finecast was unacceptable and started up the usual litany of complaints against GW. Sometimes you have to just take a step back and breathe.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Why do they get mould slippage anyway? Don't these things have locator pins? Or is that too obvious a question?

Slippage would generally be from the mould being made incorrectly in the first place. There's at least one Space Marine mould (Oz gets stock from both the UK and the US factories, so I'm not sure which it is, off the top of my head) that had a nearly 1mm misalignment, which is horrendous to try to clean up, and ridiculous on 28mm models.

That being said, GW's metals were usually fairly good for mould lines. The more common problem with the metals, from my experience, was poor fitting pieces... So Finecast is like the worst of both worlds... worse mouldlines and flash, and it won't make a difference to the fit.

By contrast, I picked up a couple of boxes of plastic Warmachine minis a few weeks back... No sprues, almost invisible mould lines, detail as good if not better than the metals. You could pretty much just clean off the injection points, glue them together and paint. That is what Finecast should have been.

You can say what you want, but I've seen mostly negative reviews as far as quality on most sites. There is praise for the material as it does seam like a step in the right direction, but the quality of the actual figures themselves is very low, or at least hit and miss.

Andrew1975 wrote:You can say what you want, but I've seen mostly negative reviews as far as quality on most sites. There is praise for the material as it does seam like a step in the right direction, but the quality of the actual figures themselves is very low, or at least hit and miss.

Again, there's your problem-- the Internet has a long tradition of hating on GW wherever possible. In person, I haven't heard any of these complaints. I'm rather confident that, over time, we'll see the opinions on here and other Web sources start becoming more positive as people start to actually use Finecast models in their own armies and see what others have been able to do with the material.

Fetterkey wrote:
It's already the case for most players-- simply working with Finecast models and contrasting that to one's experience with metal is usually enough to make a new convert! People in real life don't complain about Finecast to anywhere near the extent we've seen here. In fact, I have yet to hear anybody have anything but praise for Finecast in person-- it seems, at least to me, like this is the typical anti-GW Dakka hivemind taking its toll. Mikhaila (who's almost certainly talked to more people than I about this) also reports that the reaction he's seen in person has been generally positive, and "nowhere near the negative reaction on Internet forums." While it may be trendy or cool to hate GW on here, you have to realize that many of their moves can, in fact, be positive, and that Internet complaints aside, the reaction to Finecast is quite good.

Yes I'm quite aware there are more then a few, well folks that PT barnum would call a certain S word, that are willing to accept substandard miniatuers, with flaws and hand wave them away. You, Kan, among others. Mikhila sure, but thats contrast with Wayland games and othre retailers. Milage varies, but I know around here, its a big thumbs down and a lateral move back to warmachine.

I know its cool to drink the koolaid, and poo poo anyone that has ANY negative reaction to something GW does. But you know what will be the final arbitor? GW finacial report. Last one wasnt so hot, willing to be the trend downward of unit sales will continue.

For what it's worth, I've got quite a bit of Finecast stuff. Sure, I've had the odd stinker (seriously, the worst is a Liche Priest. Must return him tomorrow) but the majority of stuff I have hasn't had any problem.

carmachu wrote:I know its cool to drink the koolaid, and poo poo anyone that has ANY negative reaction to something GW does. But you know what will be the final arbitor? GW finacial report. Last one wasnt so hot, willing to be the trend downward of unit sales will continue.

Much the reverse-- I've endured a silly amount of insults over this, with people calling me a GW plant, apologist, or even troll because I'm trying to convey the impression that I and others have had from encountering Finecast models in person. If anything's "cool" or trendy, it's hating GW, especially in the last month or so. Well, I'm not GW's biggest fan, and I certainly don't work for them, but I think that, just as I criticize them for actions that I find troublesome or detrimental to the game and hobby, I should compliment them for actions that are beneficial-- and Finecast, judging by what I and others have seen in person, is certainly beneficial to the hobby!

Also, not sure if it's been brought up (again, haven't read the whole thread) but Wayland aren't 'stopping selling Finecast' as cancelling current orders, pending a re-stock.

They even state that in the quoted passage??

I work in retail, we do not have the Finecast line and won't. Customers who ordered direct are less than satisfied by the quality of the minis. These people in real life have had quite negative reactions and veiws on the metal to finecast switch. Theyre main complaint is that the quality has generally gone down and the rising price tags.
So yeas people in the real world are complaining not just the interwebs.

-Removed by insaniak. Keep it civil-

Kilkrazy wrote:I pinned all my Venomthrope arms.

I just glued them in, when I was doing tyranids. Same with lictors. Never had an issue, ever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fetterkey wrote:

Much the reverse-- I've endured a silly amount of insults over this, with people calling me a GW plant, apologist, or even troll because I'm trying to convey the impression that I and others have had from encountering Finecast models in person. If anything's "cool" or trendy, it's hating GW, especially in the last month or so. Well, I'm not GW's biggest fan, and I certainly don't work for them, but I think that, just as I criticize them for actions that I find troublesome or detrimental to the game and hobby, I should compliment them for actions that are beneficial-- and Finecast, judging by what I and others have seen in person, is certainly beneficial to the hobby!

I've got 20 years of GW playing under my belt. I know that doesnt seem like anything, but I've seen GW at its best and worst. I've seen them do great things, and then turn around an shoot themselves in the foot. GW, unfortunately, has earned its detractors comments. Repeatedly.

Finecast, judging by the hobby, is NOT that beneficial. Given that other manufactures can produce models, with same or similar material, cheaper with no flaws. Thats just a fact.

Even if Finecast had a 100% track record for their models, I am hesitant to buy anything that may melt if I leave it in the car too long.

Omegus wrote:Even if Finecast had a 100% track record for their models, I am hesitant to buy anything that may melt if I leave it in the car too long.

I'm sure someone here will tell you that you can fix up melted Finecast much more easily than pin a metal model.

Well, maybe not that, but I'm sure it's trivial to rig a generator in my trunk to keep the car refrigerated.

lord_blackfang wrote:

Omegus wrote:Even if Finecast had a 100% track record for their models, I am hesitant to buy anything that may melt if I leave it in the car too long.

I'm sure someone here will tell you that you can fix up melted Finecast much more easily than pin a metal model.

I'm sure that anyone who isn't a frothing at the mouth loon would also tell you that it does not melt if you "leave it in the car too long". To get it to melt requires a set of ridiculously specific circumstances(left in the car on a day with a temperature of 89 degrees Fahrenheit or higher and left in direct sunlight with no cloud cover at all inside of the original clamshell packaging to amplify the incoming light) that anyone would avoid anyways.

The goon who posted the whole "MY GANDALF MELTED" thing seemingly retracted his statement and said that the "melt" on the model was in fact just the result of a miscast model to begin with.

Is the miscast acceptable? No. But it's still not a model melting, like is constantly used as some kind of ridiculous rallying cry against Finecast.

Fetterkey wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:You can say what you want, but I've seen mostly negative reviews as far as quality on most sites. There is praise for the material as it does seam like a step in the right direction, but the quality of the actual figures themselves is very low, or at least hit and miss.

Again, there's your problem-- the Internet has a long tradition of hating on GW wherever possible. In person, I haven't heard any of these complaints. I'm rather confident that, over time, we'll see the opinions on here and other Web sources start becoming more positive as people start to actually use Finecast models in their own armies and see what others have been able to do with the material.

Show a positive picture of something other then craptastic disaster sculpts and lets start seeing the proof in the pudding.

No one WANTS them, based on them being... crap. If your experience is any better, by all means, Show what your talking about.

Your other lame points are pretty moot, unless we can see some finecrap that doesn't involve bubbles miscasts, warps, or outright missing parts. Yeah, sure, I get that you think that you have to be the so called voice of GW, but.... somehow.. your just not doing the job here.

Point of fact- GW did us the solid of priming up a cherry product and gave up pits. These finecost minis are substandard, and your really just parroting the party line, instead of really coming to the table here with some proof to the contrary.


Bottom line- THERE IS NO POSITIVE REAL LIFE PICTURES OF THESE new bang up material sculpts yet. If there were to be, we would have seen them posted here.

Show me a good sculpt, and try to change my mind.

I would actually like to see some of these crappy sculpts that stand up to the hype.

So the hype is your problem?

Then why aren't you flipping out at Apple, Nike, or any other bloody company out there that doesn't live up to their hype?

The iPad 2 totally lived up to the hype, and after going through three android devices, I curse the day I had my iPhone stolen. Waiting for the next release (assuming to coincide with iOS 5), so I can finally take a hammer to this droid x like I've wanted to for so very long.

Fetterkey wrote:

carmachu wrote:I know its cool to drink the koolaid, and poo poo anyone that has ANY negative reaction to something GW does. But you know what will be the final arbitor? GW finacial report. Last one wasnt so hot, willing to be the trend downward of unit sales will continue.

Much the reverse-- I've endured a silly amount of insults over this, with people calling me a GW plant, apologist, or even troll because I'm trying to convey the impression that I and others have had from encountering Finecast models in person. If anything's "cool" or trendy, it's hating GW, especially in the last month or so. Well, I'm not GW's biggest fan, and I certainly don't work for them, but I think that, just as I criticize them for actions that I find troublesome or detrimental to the game and hobby, I should compliment them for actions that are beneficial-- and Finecast, judging by what I and others have seen in person, is certainly beneficial to the hobby!

Ok, being balanced about things, I will admit you have a point. I think, in light of recent event's people have a huge desire to see GW fail, and if Finecast is the vehicle for that failure, well then so be it. I do think people are now being overly critical about GW.....point in case, I recently attempted the jump to Privateer Press Warmachine and purchased a starter box for Cryx, the plastic figures inside were TERRIBLE, you guys want to complain about Finecast? you aint seen anything, the detailing on these things were practically non existant....this was genuine CRAP....

So, I posted my findings, I didn't make a big song and dance about it, but I wanted to see what others thought........not a peep! Now, could it be I was the only person in the world, or even the only person on Dakka to have bought a Cryx starter set and found the same level of "quality" in these sculpts....I doubt it, and yet, where was the same level of "hate" that you see for GW?

Fast forward to GW, and on the flip side, I can see why people are targeting GW for their recently "activity", but more to the point, GW have come forward and have made statements and price increases based on the quality of their products.....that being, that their products are the "best in the world" or words to that effect.....while it may be part of the modelling hobby to GS parts, and "fix" minor issues, when you have such statements rammed down your throat, and a price increase to boot, you feel less inclined to be charitable with your time and modelling skills.

I have personally bought resin and metal miniatures from companies that make no claims to be best in the market with their miniatures, and yet, their products far outstrip those who do claim to be the best. I've bought resins from Studio McVey, which in every case, needed nothing doing to them! I've likewise bought minis from Corvus Belli that had very little flash, and certainly didn't need GS to fill the gaps......both of these companies lack the financial backing and resources of GW, and yet produce a better product.....

This is the reason why your arguments are not being well recieved. If GW's attitude wasn't as it is, no doubt much of what they do (in quality terms) would be overlooked (see my comments on PP above) such as it is, GW is simply reaping what it has sown.

Kanluwen wrote:So the hype is your problem?

Then why aren't you flipping out at Apple, Nike, or any other bloody company out there that doesn't live up to their hype?

Well, there's the point Kan, GW is becoming/has become, just another BS company fleecing their customers with sub-standard crap.

FITZZ wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So the hype is your problem?

Then why aren't you flipping out at Apple, Nike, or any other bloody company out there that doesn't live up to their hype?

Well, there's the point Kan, GW is becoming/has become, just another BS company fleecing their customers with sub-standard crap.

Sub-standard is subjective. Finecast is, at the moment, really the only part of what they're selling that's an active 'flop'.

With that aside, I've known for awhile that they're "just another company fleecing their customers". Gone are the days of Citadel being run out of a van, Games Workshop being a small chain of shops importing US products, etc.

They've been a "big company" for awhile now.

Kanluwen wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So the hype is your problem?

Then why aren't you flipping out at Apple, Nike, or any other bloody company out there that doesn't live up to their hype?

Well, there's the point Kan, GW is becoming/has become, just another BS company fleecing their customers with sub-standard crap.

Sub-standard is subjective. Finecast is, at the moment, really the only part of what they're selling that's an active 'flop'.

With that aside, I've known for awhile that they're "just another company fleecing their customers". Gone are the days of Citadel being run out of a van, Games Workshop being a small chain of shops importing US products, etc.

They've been a "big company" for awhile now.

That's very true, harkening back to days of yore can be a bit depressing at times.
Now, with the finecast line, I think that perhaps GW could do a bit in the way of PR damage control by simply admitting they screwed the pooch where QC was involved and doing what's needed to rectify the problems.

Kanluwen wrote:So the hype is your problem?

Then why aren't you flipping out at Apple, Nike, or any other bloody company out there that doesn't live up to their hype?

Maybe he doesn't buy those items, or maybe it's the gulf between the GW hype and the delivery of the final product that annoys. These are dreadful problems that come on the back of boasts of the worlds finest miniatures and a significant price rise. It's beyond frustrating for those repeatedly having to replace defective products. At least when Apple produced the iPhone 4 with problems they reacted to it and tried to do something, unlike GW that have so far tried to conceal the numbers of defective items given what rich1231 said at the top of page 9.

Fetterkey wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:You can say what you want, but I've seen mostly negative reviews as far as quality on most sites. There is praise for the material as it does seam like a step in the right direction, but the quality of the actual figures themselves is very low, or at least hit and miss.

Again, there's your problem-- the Internet has a long tradition of hating on GW wherever possible. In person, I haven't heard any of these complaints. I'm rather confident that, over time, we'll see the opinions on here and other Web sources start becoming more positive as people start to actually use Finecast models in their own armies and see what others have been able to do with the material.

Fetterkey, you are being ridiculous or blind. Someone already posted about 10 different independent web reviews for finecast miniatures. The all say the same thing, it's crap. Show me an independent review that has a glowing review of this garbage.

I am reminded of 'New Coke'...

It would be so easy, too.

Put a wee message on their site, facebook and white dwarf.

"Unfortunately, some sneaky grotz managed to get into our first Finecast run, but don't worry, we've resanctified the relevant machine spirits and we don't plan on seeing any future issues. Go to your local Games Workshop to get your models replaced for free, or fill out the online form to receive a freepost package to mail it back to us."

But, that would be far too useful and obvious....

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I am reminded of 'New Coke'...

Exactly..." It's Great!!...It's Amazing!!!...It's Better than the Original!!"....It fell right on it's face.

Kanluwen wrote:So the hype is your problem?

Then why aren't you flipping out at Apple, Nike, or any other bloody company out there that doesn't live up to their hype?

??? huh?


I wear Chucks, bro. !@#$ those guys.


Uh... still waiting on those pictures, Kan. As for "Flipping out" relax there chief. I'm willing to change my opinion... if there was a reason to.


Finecost is crap. Prove me wrong.

Thats it in a nutshell.


Show a Finecrap figure that someone owns that doesn't look meh, and stands up to the well rehersed talking points. Without hype, without pretty fawning over a turd.

No gimmicks, excuses, or doubletalk.


Aside from "The big bad Internetz being hard on GW, because they can do no wrong, and we all don't know what we are talking about.... I must be making it up.


Pretty straightforward, me thinks- Pictures or it doesn't exist.

So the hype is your problem?

No it's the intentional loss of CQ along with a rise in price.