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Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Hi SirAngry
I didn't make my comment simply to criticise Kanners, but because that discussion was sidetracking the real problem. As I said whether it melted or simply flopped doesn't matter much if the model is knackered.

Will agree that the melting into a pile of goo is overstating the case, however.

No your right, the fact remains that, my Gandalf became an ex-Gandalf whether that was because of warping or melting might be a moot point, but I feel its important to clarify these things. As I've said my original batch Gyrocopter has also shown some warping, so at the very least it is an issue with the initial batch. I've had managers of local stores in the West Midlands say as much themselves and they're open about the issues they've had and all are telling people to check their product before leaving the store.

@htj I don't think the GW will ever admit to a fault or a problem, they've never really done it before and as an ex-employee we were told the GW 'never makes mistakes'. I know from speaking to people at head office that they hate the internet and forums because people don't just get the White Dwarf viewpoint anymore and that forums like Dakka Dakka and blogs and podcasts are able to put out an alternative view, something they've not had to deal with in the past as they've had a monopoly on their hobby coverage really. However at this stage admitting something has gone wrong with production would be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. No I think they should just concentrate on stepping up their QC and getting things right.

SirAngry wrote:
... snip ...
I know from speaking to people at head office that they hate the internet and forums because people don't just get the White Dwarf viewpoint anymore and that forums like Dakka Dakka and blogs and podcasts are able to put out an alternative view, something they've not had to deal with in the past as they've had a monopoly on their hobby coverage really.
... snip ...

Telling.

zedmeister wrote:

SirAngry wrote:
... snip ...
I know from speaking to people at head office that they hate the internet and forums because people don't just get the White Dwarf viewpoint anymore and that forums like Dakka Dakka and blogs and podcasts are able to put out an alternative view, something they've not had to deal with in the past as they've had a monopoly on their hobby coverage really.
... snip ...

Telling.

To be fair I bet all companies feel like that at some point. I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime. lol. I guess the GW's problem is that they don't really hide that fact very well or play the game very well either. PP and others I could mention seem to handle bloggers, forums and podcasts etc just a little bit better. They see the internet as a tool to help them, albeit one they can't control, but they can influence. I get the feeling that the GW wishes the internet didn't exist and they certainly view it as a problem not an opportunity.

SirAngry wrote:

zedmeister wrote:

SirAngry wrote:
... snip ...
I know from speaking to people at head office that they hate the internet and forums because people don't just get the White Dwarf viewpoint anymore and that forums like Dakka Dakka and blogs and podcasts are able to put out an alternative view, something they've not had to deal with in the past as they've had a monopoly on their hobby coverage really.
... snip ...

Telling.

To be fair I bet all companies feel like that at some point. I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime. lol. I guess the GW's problem is that they don't really hide that fact very well or play the game very well either. PP and others I could mention seem to handle bloggers, forums and podcasts etc just a little bit better. They see the internet as a tool to help them, albeit one they can't control, but they can influence. I get the feeling that the GW wishes the internet didn't exist and they certainly view it as a problem not an opportunity.

Couldn't agree more. The internet has been embraced by GW with both hands rolled into fists, and with an expression like the screaming bald man from the cover of DoW.
BTW I think you should link your blog in your signature SirAngry, have really enjoyed reading it especially your infinity stuff

RetributionAngel wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iOsMf18CNs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stIqzfqV3EQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B5nRa0D0hw

MUST SEE THESE



I wonder how bad does a model need to be damaged???

how high does the price for a model need to be???

how many crazy marketting lies d

....for some people to realise that FAILCAST is all a big ripp-off?????

LOL, I'm surprised that the guy was satisfied with a very noticable mold line across both sides of the model, extra flash on the crozius, and a big bubble obliteration of his jump pack front vent. As long as people think that is "ok overall" like he did, GW won't change a thing. Also, as noted in the video, the next who-knows-how-many models from his mold will have not only the crozius defect (probably from a bit of mold sticking to the model during release in a prior batch) but also the two extra defects that his rubber sticking and tearing off with his model will cause. Bravo GW! Finecast indeed!

edit: Lol, the second video has the replacement blister sent to replace a miscast one has an entire sprue missing for draigo. I guess they thought that no one actually wants his shield!

Pacific wrote:

SirAngry wrote:

zedmeister wrote:

SirAngry wrote:
... snip ...
I know from speaking to people at head office that they hate the internet and forums because people don't just get the White Dwarf viewpoint anymore and that forums like Dakka Dakka and blogs and podcasts are able to put out an alternative view, something they've not had to deal with in the past as they've had a monopoly on their hobby coverage really.
... snip ...

Telling.

To be fair I bet all companies feel like that at some point. I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime. lol. I guess the GW's problem is that they don't really hide that fact very well or play the game very well either. PP and others I could mention seem to handle bloggers, forums and podcasts etc just a little bit better. They see the internet as a tool to help them, albeit one they can't control, but they can influence. I get the feeling that the GW wishes the internet didn't exist and they certainly view it as a problem not an opportunity.

Couldn't agree more. The internet has been embraced by GW with both hands rolled into fists, and with an expression like the screaming bald man from the cover of DoW.
BTW I think you should link your blog in your signature SirAngry, have really enjoyed reading it especially your infinity stuff

Cheers Pacific, I'll be dabbling with the look of the blog and I might put a link in my signatures on forums, but I'm not too sure its needed. My blogs getting enough daily hits atm so its all good.

Omegus wrote:

zedmeister wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Presumably the model would have to go through the temperature range at which it might warp before it got the the vulanisation point?

So it would vulcanise in its bent condition.

No idea, but his ranges include:

30 C - no effect
40 C - slight warping
60 C - major warping
90 C - material softned but due to its 'memory' less weighty pieces reverted back to its original state
120 C - no change

Although I am completely speculating and could be wide of the mark (due the fact I am no scientist or materials specialist) perhaps it did warp, but as the temperature climbed the materials memory reverted it to its original shape and as it hit 120+ vulcanisation occured?

That would be a solid guess, as far as I'm concerned. Of course, since vulcanized resin is theoretically more sturdy, this begs the question of whether we should bake ALL of our finecast just to ensure it doesn't crap out on us.

if you bake it it will deform/melt
resin is two components mixed that harden after a certain time
once they hardend there is no reversing the prozess
also their is no way of makeing the resin harder later
GW uses more resin compnent and less hardener component (maybe even adding softener) thats why it is more like rubber and not as hard as FW resin
if they made it harder like FW resin it would be more likelly to brake... wich is prob the main reason for it being soft

if you look at the new DE models you can see that they will not fix the issue of bubbels or misscasts
they can´t... they can only pull out the miscasts.... but as they have not done so with metall wich is less likely to misscast.... why woud they with resin?

not every customer asks for a refund so they can just keep going on... that is less expensiv than highering staff to check for misscasts

i bet they knew the problems with finecast and just went for it anyways out of profit reasons
and to avoid any los due to decreasing sales they upped the price

a GW termi charekter is the same price as a FW one!!!!!

viewed my first finecast in person Sunday. I won't be buying any of these models. Every single one was pock marked

Just some info about moulds. The rubber doesn't actually stick as such, it's more of a case that the mould dessicates. The more it is used the more the silicone degrades and becomes brittle to the point that it tears, and also with the tension used by the caster person to demould the model. that is what is happening when chunks are stuck in the models.
The reason for all the airbubbles vary a lot but range from:
1) Not enough pressure to drive out the air.
2) The resin/plastic mix is too thick for the mould.
3) The air channels are way too small. They may have to cut more and widen them.
4) Perhaps their method is wrong for the amount of detail? They should maybe consider using a vaccum chamber.
5) I don't think the faults can be put down to a bad batch. It is more of a technical problem which will continue until they realise that they've got a problem.

I saw a Astorath the Grim at my FLGS, his armor was incredibly detailed, (his eye sockets were empty, kinda weird there) but his wings has slight thin spots on several places where you could see through them. A little green stuff could be an easy fix on that. Most of the Finecast I have seen looks pretty damn nice. It does also help that my FLGS owner does thorough checks for screwed up ones.

Stormrider wrote:I saw a Astorath the Grim at my FLGS, his armor was incredibly detailed, (his eye sockets were empty, kinda weird there) but his wings has slight thin spots on several places where you could see through them. A little green stuff could be an easy fix on that. Most of the Finecast I have seen looks pretty damn nice. It does also help that my FLGS owner does thorough checks for screwed up ones.

While it might be just the thing to fix it, it is disappointing that you'd have to do anything other than clean flash from it at these prices.

I hope Finecast 2.0 works out a lot better than this...

I think Finecast will improve once they start to make masters specifically for resin moulding.

I am sure some of the trouble comes from the fact that they recycled models intended for a different method of production.

The other main variable is the quality of mixing and pouring the resin. The quality of resin seems to be a bit variable, possibly due to discrepancies in the amounts of components (resin, filler and hardener) mixed together.

That is presumably a key flaw in the production process. You can't make massive batches of resin because it starts to react as soon as it is mixed. There will always be more variation in small batches.

Video related:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7mU53IHNOU

lol

Never thought I'd ever find myself saying "I agree with Hitler", but...

Sidstyler wrote:Never thought I'd ever find myself saying "I agree with Hitler", but...

That just shows the amount of PR work GW has to do

I've actually had several problelms with the finecast minis myself. Three of five I purchased had multiple airbubbles and defects... I called gw and got new ones shipped straight to my house--free of charge.
I appluad this store for setting high standards.. though I don't think the customers would complain if they spent five minutes to call gwand got brand new models free of charge(and got to keep the old ones--some greenstuff to fix the holes &&good as new)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And they were from multiple armies-- de showing the most ammount of messups.

Strangelooper wrote:Video related:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7mU53IHNOU

lol

Lol'd hard, especially at 0:49-1:07 and 2:57.

wanax wrote:viewed my first finecast in person Sunday. I won't be buying any of these models. Every single one was pock marked

Bring on the Fineca$t Nurgle Armies...

Seriously, why not buy a Finca$t Typhus...

SirAngry wrote:I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime.

The key difference here is that when E3 rolled around a week or two later, one of the Sony suits got up on stage and dealt with that particular room-filling elephant, apologised for the problems, thanks all their developers and customers for being patient, and promised to do better in the future.

GW on the other hand just banned all previews, even to their own damned stores, negated the point of pre-orders (and WD subscriptions for that matter), shut down international sales, shovelled gak down our throat by telling us Failcost is the second coming of Christ, did an across-the-board price rise (on things like books, for crying out loud!) and did everything it could to, essentially, throw its toys out of the pram. And now they've started selling re-rolls.

Yeah. Pretty big difference here.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

SirAngry wrote:I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime.

The key difference here is that when E3 rolled around a week or two later, one of the Sony suits got up on stage and dealt with that particular room-filling elephant, apologised for the problems, thanks all their developers and customers for being patient, and promised to do better in the future.

GW on the other hand just banned all previews, even to their own damned stores, negated the point of pre-orders (and WD subscriptions for that matter), shut down international sales, shovelled gak down our throat by telling us Failcost is the second coming of Christ, did an across-the-board price rise (on things like books, for crying out loud!) and did everything it could to, essentially, throw its toys out of the pram. And now they've started selling re-rolls.

Yeah. Pretty big difference here.

I dont know why GW keep sending out White Knights to challenge you, mate...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

SirAngry wrote:I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime.

The key difference here is that when E3 rolled around a week or two later, one of the Sony suits got up on stage and dealt with that particular room-filling elephant, apologised for the problems, thanks all their developers and customers for being patient, and promised to do better in the future.

GW on the other hand just banned all previews, even to their own damned stores, negated the point of pre-orders (and WD subscriptions for that matter), shut down international sales, shovelled gak down our throat by telling us Failcost is the second coming of Christ, did an across-the-board price rise (on things like books, for crying out loud!) and did everything it could to, essentially, throw its toys out of the pram. And now they've started selling re-rolls.

Yeah. Pretty big difference here.

The banning of all previews is probably directly related to the upcoming Hobbit movies and associated miniatures GW will be making for them. GW had to sign non-disclosures and aren't allowed to leak early info on the models as that would give info on the movies. There are large fees associated with such leaks. We all know GW is historically crap about keeping info under wraps. I think this banning of previews is their first step towards controlling unauthorized leaks which cause no problems when they're of GW IP, but would be very expensive if they're of Hobbit IP.

Kriswall wrote:The banning of all previews is probably directly related to the upcoming Hobbit movies and associated miniatures GW will be making for them.

1. It really probably isn't.
2. You're the first person I've seen suggest that anywhere.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kriswall wrote:The banning of all previews is probably directly related to the upcoming Hobbit movies and associated miniatures GW will be making for them.

1. It really probably isn't.
2. You're the first person I've seen suggest that anywhere.

1. It really probably is. We didn't start seeing the 'complete' crackdown until GW's contract with New Line was renewed. New Line got (understandably) upset with GW before Return of the King because the Army of the Dead models and accompanying photos from the finished movie got leaked when a rulebook was supposedly lost.
2. Other than Reds8n, who made a note awhile back that GW has the concept art and production art in hand now.

It's probably not one single reason, however. There's been a lot of factors going on about previews. From sculptors getting understandably upset that people kept 'leaking' photos of the upcoming stuff from Games Day--I say photos very generously, as more often than not they were blurry shots of a glass case with the reflection of the photographer and flash in it--to the attempts that people made of trying to photograph the entirety of a preview Codex at Games Days just so they can smugly say "Yep, here you go guys".

With the advent of the LoTR license--GW had the perfect reasoning to implement 'Sneak Peeks'. Why those were ever taken away, I do not know, but they were a good idea.

I think it probably is related to the forthcoming Hobbit movie, and I've read the same thing elsewhere as well (although don't want to disclose who told me it). Security at GW is razor tight at the moment now (I have even heard about security guards on a door), and I think even though the company is frightfully banal about releasing information early (perhaps coming from the arrogance that they are alone in the marketplace), in this case it is justified because New Line have taken it even further in the past.

Case in point, when they released the early versions of LoTR at the Cannes film festival, on those 50 special disks, and one of them got leaked onto the internet. AFAIK the guy who did it ended up going to jail.

There were security guards on a specific door during the production of the LoTR games as well. The Perry Brothers had commented as much.

They're not GW security either, it's security from New Line.

Pacific wrote:
Case in point, when they released the early versions of LoTR at the Cannes film festival, on those 50 special disks, and one of them got leaked onto the internet. AFAIK the guy who did it ended up going to jail.

I'm sure then if thats the case, you can find us a link to that story, and then the subsequent link to the story f the guy getting jailed for it....

Kriswall wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

SirAngry wrote:I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime.

The key difference here is that when E3 rolled around a week or two later, one of the Sony suits got up on stage and dealt with that particular room-filling elephant, apologised for the problems, thanks all their developers and customers for being patient, and promised to do better in the future.

GW on the other hand just banned all previews, even to their own damned stores, negated the point of pre-orders (and WD subscriptions for that matter), shut down international sales, shovelled gak down our throat by telling us Failcost is the second coming of Christ, did an across-the-board price rise (on things like books, for crying out loud!) and did everything it could to, essentially, throw its toys out of the pram. And now they've started selling re-rolls.

Yeah. Pretty big difference here.

The banning of all previews is probably directly related to the upcoming Hobbit movies and associated miniatures GW will be making for them. GW had to sign non-disclosures and aren't allowed to leak early info on the models as that would give info on the movies. There are large fees associated with such leaks. We all know GW is historically crap about keeping info under wraps. I think this banning of previews is their first step towards controlling unauthorized leaks which cause no problems when they're of GW IP, but would be very expensive if they're of Hobbit IP.

Even though Peter Jackson is giving in depth making-of video blogs about said film and posting them on Youtube?





The film is over a year away yet we're seeing previews about it already and unauthorised leaks and rumours have been flying around months prior to this. I understand that they did this when LOTR came out but that was a decade ago nearly. The Internet (and how information was distributed) has changed a lot since then, PJ obviously understands this, hence his vid blogs updating fans on the films progress, something that could not have been done 10 years ago (Youtube did not exist until 2005). GW do not. They think and act like North Korea or some other Orwellian state WRT info.

Ironically jealously keeping their precioussssss like a certain character from the Hobbit.

What's to stop GW from coming out and saying, yes we are working on a Hobbit exapansion for LOTR, if anything this would give LOTR a much needed shot in the arm. But GW is all about the NOW and impulse buys. They don't care about their long term customers. (said purely in context and in relation to another Youtube vid in this thread) Hitler was right.

Yes, that must be it. All the concerns are about preventing spoilers for a movie based on a book published in 19 fething 37. Yes, that's definitely it.

Kriswall wrote:The banning of all previews is probably directly related to the upcoming Hobbit movies and associated miniatures GW will be making for them.

I could see this being true for the LotR game, but across the board?

That's an excuse, not the reason.

Grimtuff wrote:Even though Peter Jackson is giving in depth making-of video blogs about said film and posting them on Youtube?

When it comes to marketing and licensing, what is good for the goose is NOT necessarily good for the gander. New Line owns the rights to the movie and licenses it out to other corporations and individuals like GW... if New Line want to competely release every single piece of concept art and up to date photos of what they're doing with them (obviously a stupid idea that isn't going to happen) while at the same time forbidding GW to say anything until the contractually obligated date, they have that right unless there is a separate stipulation in their contract with GW. GW, on the other hand, shouldn't be douches about cutting off all access to previews more than 2 weeks prior to release of their OWN wholey owned IP (40k and WHFB). I could accept the preview policy as valid in regard to LOTR stuff (although I'm not sure that they were ever a part of black boxes.. can anyone confirm or deny that?)... but in regards to 40k and Fantasy, I think its an entirely botched move that will have no net positive result for them.