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I'm not really seeing how much that they can do to butter up a turd and sell it as a crepe.

Finecrap won't do thier sales any favors, either. When NEW GUY hobbit buyer pays 100 bucks for a starter set, gets craptastic looking models and looks back at the pricetag... looks back at the models- Thats all its going to take.
The Hobbit, wasn't even a be all end all, either- Who needs another model varent of Golum reaching around scratching his hindquarters?

TO the new movie, all I can say is that I hope they can pimp it out to offset the costs, or I can see Deja Vu all over again.

Umm...hate to burst your bubble but the hobbit was written in the thirties. They can't exactly spoil the movie's plot as the book is almost 75 years old. I just think GW is incapable of saying "sorry guys. We messed up." I understand they send free replacements, but many times there's something wrong with them too.

Rozgarth wrote:Umm...hate to burst your bubble but the hobbit was written in the thirties. They can't exactly spoil the movie's plot as the book is almost 75 years old. I just think GW is incapable of saying "sorry guys. We messed up." I understand they send free replacements, but many times there's something wrong with them too.

The plot is not what is being protected, just like with LOTR that came before it, what is being protected is New Line's/WETA's/Peter Jackson's IP.

How this extends to GW's Warhammer and 40k line we'll never know.

carmachu wrote:

Pacific wrote:
Case in point, when they released the early versions of LoTR at the Cannes film festival, on those 50 special disks, and one of them got leaked onto the internet. AFAIK the guy who did it ended up going to jail.

I'm sure then if thats the case, you can find us a link to that story, and then the subsequent link to the story f the guy getting jailed for it....

I read it in a movie magazine (either Hotdog or Empire, I can't remember which) years ago. I can't be bothered to go trawling the internet to find news of the story sorry.

The space marine sternguard veterans that I bought one of the marines had half the face missing.

Rozgarth wrote:I understand they send free replacements, but many times there's something wrong with them too.

Yeah, that happened to me.

Kanluwen wrote:There were security guards on a specific door during the production of the LoTR games as well. The Perry Brothers had commented as much.

They're not GW security either, it's security from New Line.

Kan! Your wounds are healed and you have returned to the field of battle once more...

I hope you came prepared to slay the Tyrant of Truth!

PS. What would they really be protecting? They arent hiding the plot twists or the ending... and the lotr and hobbit minis have never been anything worth hiding.

Sidstyler wrote:

Rozgarth wrote:I understand they send free replacements, but many times there's something wrong with them too.

Yeah, that happened to me.

So, can't you just ask for a replacement for the replacements?

Seems like a pretty good system of getting enough Wracks at an actually decent price!

AvatarForm wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:There were security guards on a specific door during the production of the LoTR games as well. The Perry Brothers had commented as much.

They're not GW security either, it's security from New Line.

Kan! Your wounds are healed and you have returned to the field of battle once more...

I hope you came prepared to slay the Tyrant of Truth!

More like the Fallacious Fools.

PS. What would they really be protecting? They arent hiding the plot twists or the ending... and the lotr and hobbit minis have never been anything worth hiding.

It's never been about hiding the plot twists or the endings. It's about 'hiding' how the creatures in question will look.

Does that sound silly? Sure. But let's not forget that when there was a leak about no Ents during the Battle of Helm's Deep, there was a fairly big uproar about it.

There was the same about how the Ents actually looked.

AvatarForm wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:There were security guards on a specific door during the production of the LoTR games as well. The Perry Brothers had commented as much.

They're not GW security either, it's security from New Line.

Kan! Your wounds are healed and you have returned to the field of battle once more...

I hope you came prepared to slay the Tyrant of Truth!

PS. What would they really be protecting? They arent hiding the plot twists or the ending... and the lotr and hobbit minis have never been anything worth hiding.

This was stipulated in the contract with New Line, not done by GW. To make the models, they needed stills from the film, obviously, as the miniatures had to match the films. New Line didn't want any of the material leaking out from GW, or from any other liscensee. New Line and Jackson controlled every aspect of the films, and any info being released before hand.

infinite_array wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:

Rozgarth wrote:I understand they send free replacements, but many times there's something wrong with them too.

Yeah, that happened to me.

So, can't you just ask for a replacement for the replacements?

Seems like a pretty good system of getting enough Wracks at an actually decent price!

Shhh... GW will hear you!

AvatarForm wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:There were security guards on a specific door during the production of the LoTR games as well. The Perry Brothers had commented as much.

They're not GW security either, it's security from New Line.

Kan! Your wounds are healed and you have returned to the field of battle once more...

More likely his suspension ran out.

Taking advantage of GWs customer service has been a possibility for an age. I would assume that they do record this sort of thing though so reposted claims would probably be met with increased requested for evidence or actually returning the product.

Back OT, I bought two finecast models with no defects from GW Lakeside on Saturday, that’s about 20 miles form Wayland Games.

I looked at most of the 40k blisters they had and a quick scan did not show any others with obvious problems either.

Assuming deliveries at the same time, Wayland should have their 2nd batch finecast by now. Have they announce that they are selling it again, as I only picked stuff up from GW since WG stated they were not?

It seems to me that the initial rushed/botched run is passed and the expected better produced is getting out there.

To be fair this is what GW/Mark Wells have intimated in the letters sent to various posters.

I'm going to need more confirmation before I start buying Finecast models again, though. If it is true then that's good, but there's still a lot of bad product out there and you never know if you're going to be getting something from a new batch or not, so it might be a good idea to wait a few more months (or longer) anyway for the old stuff to disappear.

notprop wrote:Assuming deliveries at the same time, Wayland should have their 2nd batch finecast by now. Have they announce that they are selling it again, as I only picked stuff up from GW since WG stated they were not?

It seems to me that the initial rushed/botched run is passed and the expected better produced is getting out there.

To be fair this is what GW/Mark Wells have intimated in the letters sent to various posters.

Well unfortunately your experience is not the norm. I have just received a couple of the boxed sets from the latest "controlled" release being Eldar Rangers and Wracks (of Dirz). First the Wracks. Majority of the Hexrifle barrel was a thinly skinned bubble, when I tried to remove the seam it broke off. The forearm spines/tips of the faceplates and even some of the armour rivets on all the minis were basically the same, hollow and fragile. Majority also had excessive bubbles on the underside of the skirt. Now the Rangers. Words cannot describe how rubbish these were. Pictures will follow, I only posted this to ensure peolple do not get the wrong idea on any supposed increase in quality control. One can only imagine the chain of frustration that would come from this...I can't be bothered going through the hassle of returning them honestly, for the time being I am finished with Finecast.

I don't care very much, cause I didn't order any finecast stuff, just bought it in the local store and opened it all right there with the clerk. No problems with like 6 purchases so far, though.

Why would I care about the ratio of defective miniatures as an end customer? If it is damaged I exchange it for an intact model.

Because you as a paying customer have to pay for the proportion of products that fail quality control.

Hekal Xul wrote:

notprop wrote:Assuming deliveries at the same time, Wayland should have their 2nd batch finecast by now. Have they announce that they are selling it again, as I only picked stuff up from GW since WG stated they were not?

It seems to me that the initial rushed/botched run is passed and the expected better produced is getting out there.

To be fair this is what GW/Mark Wells have intimated in the letters sent to various posters.

Well unfortunately your experience is not the norm. I have just received a couple of the boxed sets from the latest "controlled" release being Eldar Rangers and Wracks (of Dirz). First the Wracks. Majority of the Hexrifle barrel was a thinly skinned bubble, when I tried to remove the seam it broke off. The forearm spines/tips of the faceplates and even some of the armour rivets on all the minis were basically the same, hollow and fragile. Majority also had excessive bubbles on the underside of the skirt. Now the Rangers. Words cannot describe how rubbish these were. Pictures will follow, I only posted this to ensure peolple do not get the wrong idea on any supposed increase in quality control. One can only imagine the chain of frustration that would come from this...I can't be bothered going through the hassle of returning them honestly, for the time being I am finished with Finecast.

Of course that's entirely understandable.

Naturally there will be a lag. I think he fact that they are all being produced in Nottingham would mean that the first batches would have been sent to to further afield places explaining why Sidstyler has had multiple similar defects from 3 boxes. Equally it would explain why those in the South East of England have found better quality stock arriving in store.

Think of my post as an indicator that there may well be light on the horizon.

Kilkrazy wrote:Because you as a paying customer have to pay for the proportion of products that fail quality control.

Basically right, but I have the choice to accept the price for a given good or not. Nobody's forcing me to buy. And if I accept the price all I ask for is an intact item.

Murenius wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Because you as a paying customer have to pay for the proportion of products that fail quality control.

Basically right, but I have the choice to accept the price for a given good or not. Nobody's forcing me to buy. And if I accept the price all I ask for is an intact item.

So it wouldn't be frustrating to you to order something online, wait for delivery only to get garbage, then have to call GW customer service have a new one shipped out and wait again in hopes that this one is good!

Why must you try to justify or say that this is ok, when is so obviously isn't for many people!

I maintain that this is a casting problem and nota batch problem. If a range of models are all showing problems it does not matter where in the world they are being sent first. The problem is going to show up anywhere.

But that would suggest that GW have turned to a product that will a 33% (or whatever high %) failure rate. That really doesn't make sense.

I remember someone saying that (someone quoting Mark Wells?) GW have dropped a bollock on this and didn't have the right staff in for the sudden introduction of finecast. So the initial run of products could well have been flawed.

Andrew1975 wrote:

Murenius wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Because you as a paying customer have to pay for the proportion of products that fail quality control.

Basically right, but I have the choice to accept the price for a given good or not. Nobody's forcing me to buy. And if I accept the price all I ask for is an intact item.

So it wouldn't be frustrating to you to order something online, wait for delivery only to get garbage, then have to call GW customer service have a new one shipped out and wait again in hopes that this one is good!

Why must you try to justify or say that this is ok, when is so obviously isn't for many people!

He didn't say that at all. He said his personal experience with FC left him satisfied.

You asked if he'd be frustrated in a hypothetical (for him) situation.
You answered you're own question, and assumed he'd be frustrated
Then ask him how he can justify something that you made up and attributed to him.
He also stated it was his personal experience, and he was ok with it. What happens to other people doesn't affect his statement.

mikhaila wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

Murenius wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Because you as a paying customer have to pay for the proportion of products that fail quality control.

Basically right, but I have the choice to accept the price for a given good or not. Nobody's forcing me to buy. And if I accept the price all I ask for is an intact item.

So it wouldn't be frustrating to you to order something online, wait for delivery only to get garbage, then have to call GW customer service have a new one shipped out and wait again in hopes that this one is good!

Why must you try to justify or say that this is ok, when is so obviously isn't for many people!

He didn't say that at all. He said his personal experience with FC left him satisfied.

You asked if he'd be frustrated in a hypothetical (for him) situation.
You answered you're own question, and assumed he'd be frustrated
Then ask him how he can justify something that you made up and attributed to him.
He also stated it was his personal experience, and he was ok with it. What happens to other people doesn't affect his statement.

Actually this is what he said.

I don't care very much, cause I didn't order any finecast stuff, just bought it in the local store and opened it all right there with the clerk. No problems with like 6 purchases so far, though.

Why would I care about the ratio of defective miniatures as an end customer? If it is damaged I exchange it for an intact model.

So I'm saying as a end customer you should care about a company that is not giving you a consistently good product. Not only for the headache it causes, but also, we still pay for the miscasts! GW has to pay for those miscasts, ie, you will pay for those miscasts with higher prices on the ones that come out correctly. So yes you should care.

Andrew1975 wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

Murenius wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Because you as a paying customer have to pay for the proportion of products that fail quality control.

Basically right, but I have the choice to accept the price for a given good or not. Nobody's forcing me to buy. And if I accept the price all I ask for is an intact item.

So it wouldn't be frustrating to you to order something online, wait for delivery only to get garbage, then have to call GW customer service have a new one shipped out and wait again in hopes that this one is good!

Why must you try to justify or say that this is ok, when is so obviously isn't for many people!

He didn't say that at all. He said his personal experience with FC left him satisfied.

You asked if he'd be frustrated in a hypothetical (for him) situation.
You answered you're own question, and assumed he'd be frustrated
Then ask him how he can justify something that you made up and attributed to him.
He also stated it was his personal experience, and he was ok with it. What happens to other people doesn't affect his statement.

Actually this is what he said.

I don't care very much, cause I didn't order any finecast stuff, just bought it in the local store and opened it all right there with the clerk. No problems with like 6 purchases so far, though.

Why would I care about the ratio of defective miniatures as an end customer? If it is damaged I exchange it for an intact model.

So I'm saying as a end customer you should care about a company that is not giving you a consistently good product. Not only for the headache it causes, but also, we still pay for the miscasts! GW has to pay for those miscasts, ie, you will pay for those miscasts with higher prices on the ones that come out correctly. So yes you should care.

And his point of veiw is that he isn't being caused a headache, and doesn't care about the rest.

Your feeling is that he should care.

I care about the problems with FC because they affect me directly, probably 100 times more than any of the rest of you. But I'm not going to worry about making sure everyone else is upset about it as well.

I think the whole poor QC is a deliberate attempt to scupper internet sellers. No one will risk buying online for fear of receiving shoddy goods (and having to go through all the rigmaroll of returning the item for a replacement) and so they will be forced to go into GW's own highstreet stores.

Sheer, unadulterated brilliance

Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.

Pacific wrote:I think the whole poor QC is a deliberate attempt to scupper internet sellers. No one will risk buying online for fear of receiving shoddy goods (and having to go through all the rigmaroll of returning the item for a replacement) and so they will be forced to go into GW's own highstreet stores.

Sheer, unadulterated brilliance

Pacific. I did not even think of that possibility. Something that GW would possibly do.

HMBC Wrote:

Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.

I'm a bit more a optimist that there HAS to be an evil overlord in that corporation.

If you buy defective product online, can you exchange it at a GW store? It's been awhile but, I remember they had a no questions asked type returns system.

Andrew1975 wrote:
So I'm saying as a end customer you should care about a company that is not giving you a consistently good product. Not only for the headache it causes, but also, we still pay for the miscasts! GW has to pay for those miscasts, ie, you will pay for those miscasts with higher prices on the ones that come out correctly. So yes you should care.

The others have understood me perfectly right. Since I didn't order any finecast online I am only speaking about my offline store experience. And the GW shop as well as the local game shop I brought from so far both offered to open the boxes even before I actually paid. So I was sure I'd get intact models. The price was on a label so I knew what I was willing to pay for an intact model (which I got). So: my shopping experience was okay. Note that I am no apologist and will not order any finecast until the issue is solved. But I do not understand why people get on such a crusade of condemning finecast in general. Once GW manage to produce finecast without flaws I will order it online and be happy about it.

Btw I am sure they will manage to improve quality. I still have some metal models from the late 80ies and early 90ies which are miscast horribly. It took GW some years to improve their metal production as well.