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Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Presumably the model would have to go through the temperature range at which it might warp before it got the the vulanisation point?

So it would vulcanise in its bent condition.

No idea, but his ranges include:

30 C - no effect
40 C - slight warping
60 C - major warping
90 C - material softned but due to its 'memory' less weighty pieces reverted back to its original state
120 C - no change

Although I am completely speculating and could be wide of the mark (due the fact I am no scientist or materials specialist) perhaps it did warp, but as the temperature climbed the materials memory reverted it to its original shape and as it hit 120+ vulcanisation occured?

Thanks for the summary. I ought to have checked the links first Zed.

Sounds possible from what little I know about resins
and did wonder if the memory effected it but was unsure.

If nothing else, I've had a couple of laughs off this thread.


1% fact, and 99% wild-eyed speculation. Somehow
it seems...normal?

wanax wrote:If nothing else, I've had a couple of laughs off this thread.


1% fact, and 99% wild-eyed speculation. Somehow
it seems...normal?

At least we know it's true that Finecast miniatures give you rabies, due to being made out of smashed up orphan kittens.

zedmeister wrote:Here's a much better and less annoying experiment conducted on finecast using an oven. One interesting point made in the experiment is that finecast appears to be less susceptable to warping at very high temperatures. Perhaps the resin compound is being vulcanised in some form at high temperatures:
http://www.dragonpainting.net/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=2396&start=10

Wow, that is an interesting experiment for sure...

It sounds like Finecast with low heat and no pressure will not change shape

It sounds like Finecast with low heat and Pressure will change shape

It sounds like there is some memory to the material, Unsure why lower temps warped but higher temps stayed firm?

The question now is will car temps (heat) and foam case (pressure) damage figures or is the heat and pressure from reasonable use not going to be an issue?

All this talk of heat, cars and pressure!
Still waiting for someone to put their army in the car, set it alight, then take the remains to the scrapyard to put in the crusher for the ultimate Finecast test.

Any volunteers?


no-one?
*crickets*

All this talk of heat, cars and pressure!
Still waiting for someone to put their army in the car, set it alight, then take the remains to the scrapyard to put in the crusher for the ultimate Finecast test.

I have done this and the models did not hold up well. This is why I will never buy "Finecast" models.

BTW I suggest you do not use you own car as now I have to walk to get gas for the mower.

While it's awesome to get 'concrete' evidence out on this materials resilience, the point of the thread was Waylands decision to return GW Finecast stock based on their observed 50%+ miscast rate.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:All this talk of heat, cars and pressure!
Still waiting for someone to put their army in the car, set it alight, then take the remains to the scrapyard to put in the crusher for the ultimate Finecast test.

Any volunteers?

We should also have someone rub a Finecast model all over their face to prove it doesn't give you herpes.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Presumably the model would have to go through the temperature range at which it might warp before it got the the vulanisation point?

So it would vulcanise in its bent condition.

Resin such as this does not have a vulcanization temp. It's a A/B solution, resin and catalyst.

To be fair, most resins will not survive a very hot car without warping, some resins are designed for high temperatures and can even survive the heat and pressure of the vulcanization process of a spin cast mold when cured. This resin sounds like it has a lower temperature tolerance than most, but you would need to test this by using a toaster oven to see where the warping/meting point is.

htj wrote:At least we know it's true that Finecast miniatures give you rabies, due to being made out of smashed up orphan kittens.

I hear GW will soon be switching to casting their minis out of Hewlett Packard printer ink to save on material costs.

We should also have someone rub a Finecast model all over their face to prove it doesn't give you herpes.

Already got it on my face when rubbing the dust in my eyes, during a vain attempt to meet the Snow Queen.

lord_blackfang wrote:

htj wrote:At least we know it's true that Finecast miniatures give you rabies, due to being made out of smashed up orphan kittens.

I hear GW will soon be switching to casting their minis out of Hewlett Packard printer ink to save on material costs.

Super premium INK!

Wow. thats all i have to say. I didnt realize that rabies, herpes and a host of other deadly diseases were being spread via the pubic hairs trapped in the finecast blister packs. its true. The zombie appoc. is on its way.

Jesus save me.

lord_blackfang wrote:

htj wrote:At least we know it's true that Finecast miniatures give you rabies, due to being made out of smashed up orphan kittens.

I hear GW will soon be switching to casting their minis out of Hewlett Packard printer ink to save on material costs.

i wonder if asian girls melt if exposed to heat..... or if their melting point is affected by their facial expression

lord_blackfang wrote:

htj wrote:At least we know it's true that Finecast miniatures give you rabies, due to being made out of smashed up orphan kittens.

I hear GW will soon be switching to casting their minis out of Hewlett Packard printer ink to save on material costs.

Actually, I had heard that GW will be releasing something called 'Ultracast' in a couple years - models that are currently being produced in resin will be available in extreme-high quality white metal!

With, of course, only a modest price increase to cover the cost of producing the miniatures. Sounds reasonable.

NoseGoblin wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

niceguyteddy wrote:I don't believe anyone should accept significant defects in Finecast. GW will only improve the process if it makes economic sense, in that they are receiving too many returns.

Point out the "defects in Finecast" there for me.

Oh wait. There's none. It's hairs stuck inside the clamshell packaging.

While it's grody and kinda weird, it's not exactly "a defect in Finecast".

Looks more to me like Wayland's implementing their own version of "Quality Control" and deciding anything is a flaw.

I would have to agree with you there. seems a bit over the top to call that a manufacturing defect. I have no love for GW but I do think they will work out most of the kinks. From what I understand they are spin casting resin. This is far from ideal, they would have been better off using Reaction Injection Molding... It would have cost them a bundle to re-tool but the constant returns will cost them more financially as well as in customer approval.

Just my two cents.

Its not hair -.-
It got crushed and the package has cracks.... who is to say the model inside is not damaged.
Besides the package being defect is reason enough for wayland to return it... if they send it out like this they will be the ones haveing to compinsate if the customers want a refund and their image will be damaged.
I think it is fair to expect a good condition product and not some second choice damged goods for the kind of money GW charges for these models.

I predicted it to be like this...when the resin change was announced... 50% returns. Its just like FW. Pure luck to get a good product.
Most people wont even return their stuff out of inconviniece. GW is betting on this fact.
A...hole IMO


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have seen worse models on Youtube and have heard people although getting refunds (new models) still have missing parts in the refunded model.
You might think the person takeing care of it could have checked before sending it out?!!

Frankly GW doesn´t care about these "MINIOR" issues
its youre problem anyways -.-

Haveing dealt with FW i can only say do NOT buy resin
its not worth the trouble nore the money.
And the higher detail is just a marketting lie. The bubbels are not.

Yeah, can't recommend that enough. Don't buy closed boxes, find what you want in metal or just hold off on purchases for a while if there's something you really want (like the new wracks). If this stuff hurts sales GW will have to do something about it, you can't expect to keep selling crap product and just deal with the constant returns and replacement boxes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iOsMf18CNs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stIqzfqV3EQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B5nRa0D0hw

MUST SEE THESE



I wonder how bad does a model need to be damaged???

how high does the price for a model need to be???

how many crazy marketting lies d

....for some people to realise that FAILCAST is all a big ripp-off?????

How many? n+1 where n represents the number they have seen.

This study shows that car temperatures in the heat of an Australian summer (40*C) can reach 70*C in the cabin. with the boot a good 15-20* lower.

Personally, I've had a few plastic kits deform in the sun, particularly tanks which seem to explode if all the doors are sealed shut .

That guy, DHan997325 also has a wracks review, and the very first model he pulled out of the box had the same problem that has been plaguing my incubi: the spikes on his armor aren't fully cast, you can see holes on the plates where they're supposed to be.

I was hoping a newer kit, especially one designed to be Finecast, would have been in better shape, but apparently not.

I know I've been bitching about that a lot, but god damn it I hate that! The DE models have all these cool little details, like the spikes on the armor, or the trophies and bits like that, and Finecast just ruins all of them. WTF...

zedmeister wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Presumably the model would have to go through the temperature range at which it might warp before it got the the vulanisation point?

So it would vulcanise in its bent condition.

No idea, but his ranges include:

30 C - no effect
40 C - slight warping
60 C - major warping
90 C - material softned but due to its 'memory' less weighty pieces reverted back to its original state
120 C - no change

Although I am completely speculating and could be wide of the mark (due the fact I am no scientist or materials specialist) perhaps it did warp, but as the temperature climbed the materials memory reverted it to its original shape and as it hit 120+ vulcanisation occured?

That would be a solid guess, as far as I'm concerned. Of course, since vulcanized resin is theoretically more sturdy, this begs the question of whether we should bake ALL of our finecast just to ensure it doesn't crap out on us.

This is absolutely unexceptable.

I was hoping a newer kit, especially one designed to be Finecast, would have been in better shape, but apparently not.

I am wondering if the problem is indeed with the resin batches which has caused damage to the moulds.
Subsequent casts are then faulty.

The concern is with GW claiming there is no release agent and models can be painted without a primer.
The resin may have stuck to the mould, and/or may not have cured sufficiently before the cast is removed, hence the yellow rubber on sime models.

I can understand small problems being missed by quality control but yellow rubber stucj to models should have been picked up, and alerted someone to check the moulds are okay.

Kanluwen wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Now you are playing semantics Kanners

Put it another way
"I left Shadowfax on the window sill and now he is Shadow f*xd!"

No, I'm really not.
The person who wrote that then retracted their statement, saying that there had been the flaw in question to begin with.
As in the case was really simply "I left Shadow f*xd on the window sill, and now he is still Shadow f*xd!".

Putting it simply: leaving a turd in the sun still leaves you with a turd afterwards.

And as a sidenote:
It's not "playing with semantics" to say that warping does not equal melting. The two are not the same, by any stretch of the imagination.
To use an example:
You don't say that polystyrene cement "warps" the plastic together. It "melts" the plastic together.

You seein' the logic I'm laying down here Chibi?

Firstly I'm the person who posted the original article. I took it down because fanboi's were making some quite serious threats and I didn't need the hassle. I never said the miniature melted into a puddle of goo like people seem to be claiming. I stand by the fact that it happened and GW staff have seen the evidence and believe it happened so I'm fine with what I posted.

I will support Kanulwen on the so called sematic argument however, melting and warping are two different things. One implies the substance because malleable yet retains its form, that would be warping. The other says the substance loses its integrity and form and thus any detail.

The blades on my Gyrocopter have warped and become malleable in the same room out of the sunlight, but nowhere near as bad as my Gandalf, there has been drooping for sure, I'm not too sure how this would affect paint on the mini because its not painted. I'd again like to point out that I was initially supportive of the GW's move to resin:

http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.com/2011/05/fine-cast-or-to-rest-of-world-resin.html

that was written before my Gandalf had a severe case of the flopsies. But their implementation has be far from good enough. I'd still advise people to steer clear until the GW can get their quality control right, and I've started to see signs of this recently in some of the stores I've visited with less noticeable miscasts and malfunctions. I've had people tell me that the GW has also re-cut some of the moulds to get rid of the air bubbles that have plauged some miniatures and I've even been told by some they've slightly changed the mix of the resin they're using, but I'm not able to verify any of it and neither are they. Cheers.

I wish GW would just make an announcement about it. There have been a surprisingly large number of miscast items, heat-warping notwithstanding, but they've not even commented. If a major third party like Wayland are taking steps to cease selling the product, then it really isn't just a vocal minority making a fuss. If GW would just openly say 'we're aware that there have been problems, and we're taking steps to fix them' the confidence boost in them would go through the roof. As it is, it feels like they are sticking their fingers in their ears and hoping it all goes away.

Hi SirAngry
I didn't make my comment simply to criticise Kanners, but because that discussion was sidetracking the real problem. As I said whether it melted or simply flopped doesn't matter much if the model is knackered.

Will agree that the melting into a pile of goo is overstating the case, however.

I don't think anyone ever made that claim at any point in this thread, except by apologists using hyperbole to shore up their failing argument. Of course, then they turn around and don't purchase any of the models themselves.