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2011/06/27 16:17:22
Subject: Re:Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
I still can't believe the number of GW apologists still bleating away on this. The items are faulty. If I spent £15-20 on a single model then I wouldn't be impressed to see bits missing. Yes I can greenstuff the holes but why should I? It's supposed to be fine cast.
While I agree that Wayland have maybe used the beat stick a bit too much here and I can see a causal link to the restriction on overseas sales (the mass of pictures was a bit excessive), why do people seem to think the quality here is acceptable? The thread was not about if the model melts in a car or not, it was about whether they should sell models with bits missing or some grubby oiks pubic hair stuck in the packaging.
"We didn't underestimate them but they were a lot better than we thought."
Sir Bobby Robson
2011/06/27 16:46:18
Subject: Re:Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
Oh man. On next payday I'm going to walk into GW store in Helsinki and get some stupid Finecast model, put it together and then take photos of it standing for the next few weeks on my sunny windowsill.
I haven't bought a new GW figure in a couple of decades put this thread got me interested and frustrated to the point that I'm probably going to actually do this.
2011/06/27 17:00:18
Subject: Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
I guess i've become a bit desensitized but what is the purpose of this thread again after the first page? I mean Its cool Wayland is doing whatever waylands is doing, I dont know how that will impact their sales, can you even get metal models that are now finecast? If not then its gonna suck for people who want that model (They'll prob go "Hey good for wayland" then hit the buy button at another store)
I think GW needs better quality control and you can prob just return the model for a new one, it's not like you've wasted your money. The GW hate threads are getting boring I suppose, perhaps we should spread them out a bit better? Eventually your body becomes numb to pain in the same spot
Sorry for the interruption.. GW haters and apologists can continue berating each other now
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/06/27 17:01:29
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,
2011/06/27 17:00:53
Subject: Re:Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
Ah Wayland. You are our Friendly Global Gaming Store . I support Wayland for what they are doing. My expectation of a product is fairly proportional to the cost and at the current price tag I expect the product to be damn near perfect (which it is far from being).
2011/06/27 17:21:59
Subject: Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
All Wayland is doing is saying that they can't carry this line of product because they don't want 50% of their orders returned that they then have to subsequently receive, process, contact GW for replacement, and re-ship to their customers.
That's it.
It's not some philosophical 'GW, thou shalt not pass!' statement. It's simply a distribution company receiving the first wave of product, realizing that a significant chunk of it has sufficient problems that they'd lose in either branding or capital by carrying it, and deciding not to until it gets resolved.
2011/06/27 17:25:23
Subject: Re:Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
ruminator wrote:I still can't believe the number of GW apologists still bleating away on this. The items are faulty. If I spent £15-20 on a single model then I wouldn't be impressed to see bits missing. Yes I can greenstuff the holes but why should I? It's supposed to be fine cast.
While I agree that Wayland have maybe used the beat stick a bit too much here and I can see a causal link to the restriction on overseas sales (the mass of pictures was a bit excessive), why do people seem to think the quality here is acceptable? The thread was not about if the model melts in a car or not, it was about whether they should sell models with bits missing or some grubby oiks pubic hair stuck in the packaging.
You are very wrong, this has cost us a significant amount of money we are having to cancel and refund over 1000 orders because we have been provided with what we consider product that we are not happy to sell. 1000+ orders where we would have to inform those customers of our decision. We as I have said have an obligation to all of our customers to make sure they are informed. We posted on facbook and our website the 2 places where we control the content of our message and how it is perceived.
Owner of Wayland Games
2011/06/27 17:25:29
Subject: Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
It's not some philosophical 'GW, thou shalt not pass!' statement.
Now GW is a Balrog. Those poor Finecast Gandalfs really will get melted!
Edit: Rich sorry that you have been affected like this Is there any chance tha GW will provide compensation or is just going to be a hit in the wallet for you? Sorry if that is an improper question
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/27 17:31:36
2011/06/27 17:36:16
Subject: Re:Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
Yeah... 35 dollars for Gandalf on foot and Gandalf on a horse 2-pack doesn't seem like a lot of money to me in the grand scheme of things and the cost of most model companies now adays.
30-40$ for one, O N E, miniature that in itself is a kind of lottery, think about it for a little while. It´s insane and all our own fault for letting GW "get away" with this.
JustPlainJim wrote:Just a thought: Could we get a sticky where people can show off their Finecast problems?
Like a support group!
Can anyone spot what's wrong with this picture?
Absolutely nothing. It can easily be fixed with greenstuff, not even needing specialized tools like drills and what not.
How much did it cost, 35$? That´s nothing, just peanut money.
Nothing to see, move along.
I've lived in Houston, Texas for 25+ years and left many an army in many a car in many a summer. The only problem I have ever had was the old square Epic stands warping. For disclosure, I have no Finecost, nor am I likely to.
My wife had taken my Warmachine case (which is a double wide GW case) out of the trunk and put it in the garage. Now for those who don't know, we're in the middle of a severe drought here in SE Texas and temps are pushing 100 or more without the index every day. This case had my Cygnar, Legion, and her Retribution in it and was in the garage for a good month since I didn't realize it. NONE of the plastic was warped and this is the PP plastic that is almost resin like.
2011/06/27 17:51:08
Subject: Re:Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
Pyriel- wrote:Absolutely nothing. It can easily be fixed with greenstuff, not even needing specialized tools like drills and what not.
I wouldn't be able to fix that with greenstuff...
This is the problem
You people want to be part of the hobby and should goddam learn how to stuff green into holes.
After all you want to pay over the odds for a thing with holes in.
Stop bitchin and start stuffing!!
(just in case the internet has interfered with the inference, am only joshing Skyth )
2011/06/27 18:11:51
Subject: Re:Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
In case anyone cares: it was 30 degrees Celsius here today, so I went to the beach and took an empty "finecast" sprue with me.
It became spagetti soft in about 40 to 50 minutes.
So.. anywhere where its currently above 86 degrees would have all of their finecast turn to spagetti? Come on if we're gonna bash GW at least try to be serious. That's so comically bad
My local store is sometimes ABOVE 86 on a friday night with all the gamers.. You would need to be MUCH higher to melt resin or plastic (Granted im no chem major it takes boiling point to really make my resin get super soft)
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,
2011/06/27 18:36:40
Subject: Re:Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
Why would anyone leave their models in their car in the first place? Not even talking about finecast but plastics too, if it gets hot enough of course it's gonna melt.. same as if you'd leave old records in your truck (if you're old like me and were born long enough ago to know what a record is).
It's just something that shouldn't be done... It's like common sense.
I got a plastic carnifex once and one of the frames was totally melted and warped like it was left in a hot car. GW gave me a new one so I got a lot of free bitz out of it
That's vinyal. Yeah it's going to melt! I've left plastic and metal in my car with no ill effect plenty of times. Now I don't think I would do it in the middle of summer, but that is what we want to know, at what point is it safe? If its reasonably close to plastic then fine. I just don't want to be surprised when i leave my laptop too close to the minis and come back to wilted marines.
So.. anywhere where its currently above 86 degrees would have all of their finecast turn to spaghetti?
Well we have no Idea how hot it got in the car. Also it appears that GW has been having issues mixing the resin properly, people are noticing different tensile strengths on replacement minis. So maybe he got one of the ones that was already pretty soft to begin with.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/27 18:39:46
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2011/06/27 18:47:31
Subject: Re:Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
ruminator wrote:I still can't believe the number of GW apologists still bleating away on this. The items are faulty. If I spent £15-20 on a single model then I wouldn't be impressed to see bits missing. Yes I can greenstuff the holes but why should I? It's supposed to be fine cast.
While I agree that Wayland have maybe used the beat stick a bit too much here and I can see a causal link to the restriction on overseas sales (the mass of pictures was a bit excessive), why do people seem to think the quality here is acceptable? The thread was not about if the model melts in a car or not, it was about whether they should sell models with bits missing or some grubby oiks pubic hair stuck in the packaging.
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2011/06/27 19:45:10
Subject: Re:Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
Grot 6 wrote:
They're made out of plexible plesin, what exactly would you think would happen?
Anyone who says otherwise is not even being realistic here and is engaging in wishful thinking. Thats not even in the conversation here.
Seriously? You heat something up... and it won't melt? Where does that happen again?
If you don't want to "believe" it? Hey thats fine- you can chalk that up there with the favorable pictures of Fine crap that supposedly exist as well.
I have Resin from dozens of companies made from dozens of types of plastics and resins... "sure it can melt" and "it does melt in my car" are two different things.
We all know putting minis in UNREASONABLE situations will cause them to melt. In the oven with 150 degrees +? yeah, it will melt. Exposed to boiling water? yeah, it will become FLEXIBLE but not melt. Expose to extended heat under a blowdryer or water? You can get some bending. Personally I ran mine under tap water for minutes and it didn't get spaghetti-like at all and was not flexible enough for me to model with, I had to use BOILING water... Just like other resins.
Last time I checked, my car doesn't get to 160 degrees in the sun. The claims of minis melting under REASONABLE situations like a lamp in a mini display case or heat of a car hasn't actually happened, and right now from the material *I* have doesn't appear like it will warp or melt any more or less than any other resin product I have when it comes to car/sun/bulb heat. How come no one complained about metal models chipping and breaking when expanding and contracting in freezing weather? Other materials become damaged when left in extreme tempatures too.
If it was easy and common to just leave it in your car and Gandalf goes from a majestic pose to slouching holding a wet noodle, then It seams like it would be simple to prove.
I have a Painboy with a very thin needle part on his 'urty syringe and a bosspole... I will be glad to leave him in my car all week on my dashboard of my car to see if the heat and gravity melts or warps him. Of course if it doesn't melt, people will say I am doing it wrong and am an apologist.
There is crazy hyperbole going on which is totally unsubstantiated right now which people are re-stating over and over as hard fact. If it was true, it is really easy to prove.
Oh get off of the high horse, no one said anything about puddles or anything of the sort.
GW THEMSELVES said that they can simply heat up and bend back into place pieces on models that are bent, and you can bend them back yourself after running it under hot water...
There is no hyperbole, its a fact- If you heat something up its going to melt. And point of fact- this plastic is going to melt.
Of course it probibly works different over there in never never land, where GW models are made of gold and they flow like milk and honey.
If I was being overly hateful, I could see your rather obtuse response,I am still waiting on some pictures from someone who isn't a paid company shill of one of these finecrap models that is actually decent looking...
No bubbles bent weapons, excesive flash, and looks like they are supposed to...
still waiting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SickSix wrote:Just put an ice pack in your case. problem solved.
And Beer. I heard it from a redshirt that Beer makes the finecrap actually look better, so you won't need to worry about bending anything back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/27 19:49:06
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2011/06/27 19:50:33
Subject: Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
In case anyone cares: it was 30 degrees Celsius here today, so I went to the beach and took an empty "finecast" sprue with me.
It became spagetti soft in about 40 to 50 minutes.
So.. anywhere where its currently above 86 degrees would have all of their finecast turn to spagetti? Come on if we're gonna bash GW at least try to be serious. That's so comically bad
My local store is sometimes ABOVE 86 on a friday night with all the gamers.. You would need to be MUCH higher to melt resin or plastic (Granted im no chem major it takes boiling point to really make my resin get super soft)
I agree. If this is the case, this is a legitimate complaint... Way more than the bubbles for me.
If this product really does melt to spaghetti in 86 degrees... Then that would be a real problem and make me to avoid the product even if it was super detailed with no flaws... I have never seen a plastic or resin product that got 'spaghetti' soft without boiling. I mean wiggly noodle soft It has been about 86 degrees here today... not as sunny and my painboy is on my dashboard. I would expect his 'urty syringe to be 'impotent' when I go to my car at 5pm.
Time will tell!
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2011/06/27 19:50:55
Subject: Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:... and if you get a mote of it in your eye...
You can stick her in my eye any day. She'd sure be a fine sight better then bent models, or a stick any day of the week.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2011/06/28 09:30:00
Subject: Re:Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
filbert wrote:So Finecast turns spaghetti soft in 30 degrees C yet according to Mr Mystery, it can survive an oven at 266 degrees F and only be 'slightly pliable'.
filbert wrote:So Finecast turns spaghetti soft in 30 degrees C yet according to Mr Mystery, it can survive an oven at 266 degrees F and only be 'slightly pliable'.
Hmm, who to believe?
The problem with Mr Mystery's thread (seen here) wasn't so much about the results of the experiment, but more about how many people he could flame. No-one from what I read was worried about these miniatures turning liquid in high temperatures. One thing he didn't test, however, was the temperature combined with pressure (hot miniature sandwiched between foam).
A more unbiased real-world experiment is being conducted here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/379257.page involving leaving the minis in a hot car; one on the dashboard and one in the boot mashed inside a carry case. This will have interesting results without the flamebait.
Edit:
Here's a much better and less annoying experiment conducted on finecast using an oven. One interesting point made in the experiment is that finecast appears to be less susceptable to warping at very high temperatures. Perhaps the resin compound is being vulcanised in some form at high temperatures:
http://www.dragonpainting.net/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=2396&start=10
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/06/28 11:56:41
2011/06/28 12:14:58
Subject: Wayland games to stop selling GW finecast
Renegades - 
. I support Wayland for what they are doing. My expectation of a product is fairly proportional to the cost and at the current price tag I expect the product to be damn near perfect (which it is far from being).
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