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I personally have a detachment of Elysian Gue'vesa
Captain Thanstadt[75pts]
Plas/Demo Grenadiers w/ PF[200pts]
Valkyrie[130pts]
Allies: 205pts
Expensive, but carapace and demolitions have never let me down yet in 6th edition.

Pie Plates are not your friends

IHateNids wrote:Pie Plates are not your friends

Have they ever been?

Good point

Frankly, any form of template is bad for guard, especially a flamer one, just open your box and get ready to put models in at that point. With the setup for allies i showed earlier however, not only are there anti-marine template goodness in the form of AV14 Leman Russ, but you have a 50 strong blob of cannon fodder with fire to put out anything near the objective it is parked on. You're also looking at around 30 wounds against a marine squad from 150 lasgun shots (FRFSRF), which is on average 10 failed saves, so they NEARLY make up points cost assuming none die and the dice god allows averages to take precedence.

The more that I look at it, the more I am becoming sold on the Ratlings. A 30pt buy-in and extra snipers are 10pts/each.

Think a cheap HQ plus
1 squad of ratligns
PCS w/ 1 HWS and a meatshield platoon of 2 squads.

That should be enough area denial and extra fire power.

If flyers become a nuisance then a Vendetta squadron and or Aegis line.

For the HQ on an allied guard detachment, it should probably be a Lord Commisar, that way you can set him in the middle and give the detachment a solid Ld 10 aura, or a Primaris Psyker to give us some psychic ability.

If you want Psychic abilitys with Tau, go eldar. I dont play eldar but I would suggest something like:

Farseer group thingy
Some guardians
War walkers
Fire Prism

Okay so from the above i have derived, keeping in the officer of the fleet to screw flyer lists more:

Command Squad /w Officer of the Fleet - 80
This is the cheapest HQ available and comes with 5 free meatshields for your commander.

Platoon Command Squad /w Nothing - 30
Infantry Squad - 50
Infantry Squad - 50
Infantry Squad - 50
This gives you a 35 man tarpit for 180 points, and providing a large screen for FW etc.

Ratlings - 30 (+10 points per model, up to 7 additional)
As pointed out by focusedfire these are quite good, i played against a squad of 3 the other day, and their 3+ cover save isn't fun, especially the small model means getting LoS to them is a challenge anyway from a flank (They were in ruins). Precision shots are beast now also so!

That leaves you at 290 points, you have 44 Models to sacrifice. If you really want to up the blobiness, add 50 conscripts in for 200 points and give them chenkov and send in the next wave, but i dont favor this because the second they get one model fleeing off the board, or assaulted (sweeped to hell) you lose a large point sink :(

HOWEVER

If running aegis defense line, ditch the company command squad, and take a lord commissar and then join him onto a larger ratling squad which would be holed up in the defense line, or just leave him on his own in the defense line. Point is you have a BS5 Quad Gun, and if you really want you can stick him on the squad of 30 guardsmen to give them LD10 with his uber aura, and castle an objective with body count.

Edit: Adding a HWS with autocannons wouldnt hurt either. (75 points)
Also adding Marbo is fun, seeing as he is the bane of any terminator squad that isnt in assault.

Ok, I know that you guys are discussing IG right now, but I had an evil idea for a new Tau Deathstar.

You take 1 Shas'el w/ Fusion,Plas, Shiels Gen, Iridium Armour, Stm Inject, Shield Drones, hwmt

Then add Either a Jetseer "or" A Phoenix Lord(Thinking Karandas to give the unit infiltrate or to Fuegan fr the 2+ ew with fnp.)

Finally join both to Shadowsun if running Tau in the lead. Join both to a Jetaurch or Jetseer squadron if running Eldar as the primary detachment.

The object here is to use the LoS wound alocation shenannigans and the fact that the unit can split up once it is where it needs to be.

I'm leaning toward the Shas'el+Shadowsun+Karandas build. This allows for you to infiltrate these heavy hitters with a 2-4+ coversave into effective range and has a cc monster that will keep the unit around til the next turn where you will probably split them up.

What do ya think?

Units without infiltrate cannot deploy with units that have infiltrate.

At best, you can have them join together turn 1+ after deployment.

Ovion wrote:Units without infiltrate cannot deploy with units that have infiltrate.

At best, you can have them join together turn 1+ after deployment.

I was under the impression that you could deploy them normally attached, just not take advantage of the infiltrate special rule.

There was a formidable tau deathstar mentioned many pages back, and you could add shadowsun into this:


Shas’el /w Plasma Rifle + VRS + Fusion Blaster /w HW MT – 97
Shas’el /w Plasma Rifle + Fusion Blaster + MT + Iridium Armour + Stimulant Injector + 2x Shield Drones – 147
3x Broadsides /w 3x MT + 3x T/L Plasma Rifle + T/L /w BSF + 2x Shield Drones – 288

8x 2+ Armour Saves
1x FNP
4x 4+ Inv Saves
10 Plasma Shots
3 Railgun Shots
2 Fusion Shots
Hit and Run on Squad
Night Vision on Squad
532

Still not sure if the hit and run works but would be nice if it did, otherwise you get 10pts to play with ;D Should probably add 2 more shield drones in on the other shas'el also.

But yeah, this kills what it shoots. Just detach the el's and shadowsun in movement phase, shoot diff targets, and move back in to the squad in the assault phase, tho shadowsun might not work very well here due to short range weaponry, but definitely nice LD10 bubble

YotsubaSnake wrote:

Ovion wrote:Units without infiltrate cannot deploy with units that have infiltrate.

At best, you can have them join together turn 1+ after deployment.

I was under the impression that you could deploy them normally attached, just not take advantage of the infiltrate special rule.

That's what I thought so you could have them on the board normally or deep strike from reserve but not Infiltrate them or Outflank from reserve.

i thought a squad only counted as being together when they start together in the movement phase. so you wouldnt be able to hop in and out like that it would have to be all or nothing. though i dont doubt the ridiculousness of this build lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh so im a huge fan of stealth suits now. my last game they survived 4 rounds when they were basically the only thing my opponent could shoot at. they were meant to be a throw away unit so i just took 6 with targeting arrays. killed like 15 necron warriors and soaked up a ridiculous amount of firepower.....2 died due to dangerous terrain jumping though.....oh well lol totally worth the points i spent on em

Ovion wrote:Units without infiltrate cannot deploy with units that have infiltrate.

At best, you can have them join together turn 1+ after deployment.

Augh, you are right.
By the book, Karandas gives the Infiltrate rule due to the wording but, at the very end of the Eldar Faq, it limits the power to units of his aspect only.

Oh well, Still think that Fuegan or now maybe Baharoth would work.
(Baharoth's entry says power weapon, so if you dig up an old Banshee axe he'll have an AP 2 cc weapon. Also, if you deepstrike the uber unit, then you will get to use the grenade pack.)

The best bet though will probably be a Jetseer or Jetaurch joined to Shaserra and the Shas'el. This gives the unit average toughness 4 and the really good coversave.


@Everyone else- Remember, if you are trying to do this, that Shadowsun is not an IC until her drones get ganked. This means that at the start of the game, you have to join the ICs to her rather than vise-versa.

So is anyone planning on using Kamikaze Ethereals? I've been thinking about using that tactic (placing the ethereal as far up front and solo and then trying to charge turn one) for the "free" preferred enemy upgrade. I was planning on deepstriking my crisis suits (dangerous terrain isn't so dangerous anymore and neither is a mishap) and my firewarriors are almost always mech'ed up in devilfish. The only guys that would have to take the morale test would be the broadsides who would be accompanied by LD10 HQs (two of them due to the extra one afforded by allies). Ideas?

warboss wrote:So is anyone planning on using Kamikaze Ethereals? I've been thinking about using that tactic (placing the ethereal as far up front and solo and then trying to charge turn one) for the "free" preferred enemy upgrade. I was planning on deepstriking my crisis suits (dangerous terrain isn't so dangerous anymore and neither is a mishap) and my firewarriors are almost always mech'ed up in devilfish. The only guys that would have to take the morale test would be the broadsides who would be accompanied by LD10 HQs (two of them due to the extra one afforded by allies). Ideas?

What's the point of that then?

Being only units that TAKE the morale test gain Prefered Enemy, the only things that'd get it in that instance are your Tau HQ and Broadsides (which are already twin-linked anyway, and will only get re-rolls to wound against troops when their main target is tanks...)

Now, taking an Ethereal and Shadowsun and keeping everything deployed inside her LD10 bubble would work, but you have to ask yourself, is it worth the 50pts to have a 1/6 chance a unit will run off the board, for re-rolling 1's to hit and to wound?
Even with the potential extra, boosted firewarriors you can take.

Ovion wrote:

warboss wrote:So is anyone planning on using Kamikaze Ethereals? I've been thinking about using that tactic (placing the ethereal as far up front and solo and then trying to charge turn one) for the "free" preferred enemy upgrade. I was planning on deepstriking my crisis suits (dangerous terrain isn't so dangerous anymore and neither is a mishap) and my firewarriors are almost always mech'ed up in devilfish. The only guys that would have to take the morale test would be the broadsides who would be accompanied by LD10 HQs (two of them due to the extra one afforded by allies). Ideas?

What's the point of that then?

Being only units that TAKE the morale test gain Prefered Enemy, the only things that'd get it in that instance are your Tau HQ and Broadsides (which are already twin-linked anyway, and will only get re-rolls to wound against troops when their main target is tanks...)

Now, taking an Ethereal and Shadowsun and keeping everything deployed inside her LD10 bubble would work, but you have to ask yourself, is it worth the 50pts to have a 1/6 chance a unit will run off the board, for re-rolling 1's to hit and to wound?
Even with the potential extra, boosted firewarriors you can take.

Hrmm... didn't catch that restriction. The benefit is indeed linked to actually taking the test as opposed to an army wide benefit. I haven't used an ethereal since the first year or two of 5th edition and was apparently remembering the rule through some rose colored glasses.

OK, I've been crunching the numbers and with some very good tips from focusedfire, I've got my first Tau foot-list.

Focused wrote, that if I didn't feel like D-fish were worth taking, yet still wanted marker lights, then there was a way.
First, he pointed out that a Pathfinder team of 4 pf + Shas'ui +Devilfish gives you 5 mostly static marker light shots for about 175-195-ish points.
Then he pointed out that when built right, a stealth team gives 4 mobile markerlight hits for 215-235 points but is much more durable.

The only real problem is sacrificing the elite crisis slots for the 2 following stealth teams:

1 Shas'ui Team leader and 2 shas'ui + 4 Marker drones and 2 Gun drones(You position them in a 2gd+2md in front-3stealths in middle and 2md in back for best survivability)


Focused then wrote something that helped me to understand how to make it work. He said,"Shas'vre Bodyguard, just because they can take more wargear, doesn't mean that you have to.". The point here is, yes, they cost 10 pts more per model than standard Shas'ui suits but, aside from that, there is nothing that makes me spend any more than the extra 10 pts/per suit.

I took his advice and after fiddling around with several lists found that, at the 1850-2000 point level, I could run:

2 of the above Stealth teams

2 hq's with a body guard each and a regular crisis team with tl mp.
(I run the commanders as jack of all trades 3 weapon with mt and the body guards with 2 weapons and TA. Of course the command teams get shield drones.)

Then two 8 man fire warrior teams

two kroot kindred of 10+5hounds to infiltrate with your Stealth teams

and two 2 man xv88 teams with plas, multi-tracks and 2 sheild drones each.


This build may not be quite as points efficient as lists that take pathfinders but, IMO it has merit. I like the thought of having the kroot there to infitrate and back up the pathfinders.


What do you guys think?

Sounds nice and controversial, however i think you should ditch a kroot squad and take another FW team, as one battle cannon turn one will see you with 1 troops choice left out of range of lasgun/plasma/laser deathstorm as kroot will be the biggest threat to the guardsmen

Nice catch on the stealthsuit markerlights also, NEVER looked at it that way

So I played a game today and found an easy way to get Linebreaker without risking anything important. Gun Drones.

turn 5-6, charge up any remaining devilfishes and pop off the Gun drones. I realized this too late in the game I played, and after implementing it, ended up one inch short from the actual deployment after running/jetpack. But on anything but the Scouring, totally worth it.

I have also thought about having a stealth suit max-out on Marker Drones as follows:

Shas'Vre w/ Fusion Blaster + Iridium Plates + 2 Shield Drones
2x Shas'ui's w/ 2 Marker Drones each

Arrange as Shas'Vre, then Shield Drones, then other Drones, then suits.

EDIT: I assume this is legal as Shas'Vres can take Special Issue wargear IIRC, please tell me if I am incorrect

Orkaswampa wrote:
Nice catch on the stealthsuit markerlights also, NEVER looked at it that way

Wish I could take credit for it but, it was focusedfires catch.

IHateNids wrote:I have also thought about having a stealth suit max-out on Marker Drones as follows:

Shas'Vre w/ Fusion Blaster + Iridium Plates + 2 Shield Drones
2x Shas'ui's w/ 2 Marker Drones each

Arrange as Shas'Vre, then Shield Drones, then other Drones, then suits.

EDIT: I assume this is legal as Shas'Vres can take Special Issue wargear IIRC, please tell me if I am incorrect

Unfortunately, it is illegal.

This is due to the Iridium armour being special issue and that such wargear is only allowed where specifically stated under the units entry.

BTW, if you don't mind a minor reduction in protection, you can save 10 points on that stealth unit by using the gun drones instead of shield drones. This is because the only time the gun drones will not get a 4+ save is when hit by Heavy flamer equivalent weapons(AP 4 that ignores cover)

But I though you could take Special Issue on any Shas'Vre. What would be the point in being able to upgrade to Shas'Vre if you got no access to Special Issue warger?

Still, it means i need to re-think my strategy(s)

IHateNids wrote:But I though you could take Special Issue on any Shas'Vre. What would be the point in being able to upgrade to Shas'Vre if you got no access to Special Issue warger?

Still, it means i need to re-think my strategy(s)

You gain access to the extra markerlight option by upgraging a shas'vre.

As a matter of fact, we missed that earlier. Drop 1 marker drone and add the sha'vre with marker light and save 15 points to get the 4 markerlights in the unit.

This makes them points competitive to the pathfinders when bringing 4-5 markerlights to the table per squad.

At 1 shas'vre marker light and 3 marker drones with 2 more stealth suits, you are looking at 200 points.

230 for a 4th marker drone.

or 220 if just adding 2 gun drones to act as ablative wounds.


To me, this seems like a very good reason for upgrading to a shas'vre

Ok, I hope this gets changed in the new dex. BTW, anyone know when that is supposed to drop?

IHateNids wrote:Ok, I hope this gets changed in the new dex. BTW, anyone know when that is supposed to drop?

No time soon. Belived to be mid to late 2013

My best guess would be April of next year.

OnTopic: I am thinking of using the 6th ed buffs to finally make my stealth themed scout army.

It would be something like Shadowsun, 1 stealth marker team, 2 crisis missile teams, 3 fw teams, 1 kroot squad, 1 large piranha squadron(???), 2 Broadside teams of 2, 1 HS choice of 3 Sniper drone teams, 1 aegis defense line

I will work out the list on Army builder.

Side note, The more I think about it, the more that I realie that Shadowsun is actually good if she is used to man the Aegis gun. This allows her to use her great BS while still giving the leadersgip buff to the back field units.

Captain Avatar wrote:My best guess would be April of next year.

Not likely rumours are there will be Chaos, Dark Angels and Eldar before Tau are released. Pushing Tau to the back end of 2013 or early 2014.