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**ForeverARookie**

obsidiankatana wrote:
D was nerfed enough in its own right to be accepted in normal games. My personal issue lies with the combined weight of fire and durability on a lot of Lords of war. For example, a Hellhammer or Stormsword scare me a lot more than a Shadowsword.

Exactly. I have a Baneblade, and will convert it as soon as I can. That sort of range on AP1 doesn't mean much without "Ignores Cover".

**ForeverARookie**

I crunched a bunch of numbers to compare the Gatling Psilencer to the Heavy Psycannon. I compared their chance to wound T3-7, and against Armor saves of 3+ & 4+.

Any Toughness higher than 3, the Heavy Psycannon mathematically deals more wounds, regardless of the save the model has. But the Psilencer only has to deal one unsaved wound with Force activated to kill a multi-wound model.

Against a T4 model with a 3+ save, the Gatling Psilencer will statistically deal one unsaved wound (1 1/3 wounds).

Against a T5 model with a 3+ save, it will statistically deal one unsaved wound (5/6 of a wound).

Against a T6 or T7 model with a 3+ save, it will statistically deal about one wound, for every two turns of shooting (5/12 of a wound).

The Heavy Psycannon on the other hand will deal 2 unsaved wounds against a T5 model with a 3+ save (1 1/2), or 3 unsaved wounds against a 4+ armor save (10/3)

Against a T7 model the Heavy Psycannon will deal an average of 1 unsaved wound against a 3+ (7/6), or 2 unsaved wounds against an armor save of 4+ (2/1).

If you're up against single wound models, or anything higher than T7, or AV 10, the Psycannon is the better weapon.

But the Gatling Psilencer has that small chance of instantly killing a character with one shot getting through (up to T7). I used it to kill a T6 Daemon in my last game which really messed up my opponent's plans.

I think both weapons have their place, but that the Heavy Psycannon is the overall better weapon, because there is no enemy that it has a 0% chance of hurting.

**DogOfWar**

ForeverARookie wrote:
I crunched a bunch of numbers to compare the Gatling Psilencer to the Heavy Psycannon. I compared their chance to wound T3-7, and against Armor saves of 3+ & 4+.

Any Toughness higher than 3, the Heavy Psycannon mathematically deals more wounds, regardless of the save the model has. But the Psilencer only has to deal one unsaved wound with Force activated to kill a multi-wound model.

Against a T4 model with a 3+ save, the Gatling Psilencer will statistically deal one unsaved wound (1 1/3 wounds).

Against a T5 model with a 3+ save, it will statistically deal one unsaved wound (5/6 of a wound).

Against a T6 or T7 model with a 3+ save, it will statistically deal about one wound, for every two turns of shooting (5/12 of a wound).

The Heavy Psycannon on the other hand will deal 2 unsaved wounds against a T5 model with a 3+ save (1 1/2), or 3 unsaved wounds against a 4+ armor save (10/3)

Against a T7 model the Heavy Psycannon will deal an average of 1 unsaved wound against a 3+ (7/6), or 2 unsaved wounds against an armor save of 4+ (2/1).

If you're up against single wound models, or anything higher than T7, or AV 10, the Psycannon is the better weapon.

But the Gatling Psilencer has that small chance of instantly killing a character with one shot getting through (up to T7). I used it to kill a T6 Daemon in my last game which really messed up my opponent's plans.

I think both weapons have their place, but that the Heavy Psycannon is the overall better weapon, because there is no enemy that it has a 0% chance of hurting.

Thank you for crunching that for us, you're doing the Emperor's work!

All tactics aside, I think there's always something about a unique or brand-new rule that makes me want to use it. Ranged Force weapons are just so interesting that I feel I'll proxy them on my DKs for a few games just for the sheer joy and anticipation of potentially instakilling a big nasty with a S4 AP- gun.

I'm sure I'll come crawling back to the brute force of the Heavy Psycannon eventually, but not until I've had my fix.

DoW

**Anpu42**

I was thinking about taking a 10 model Purifier Squad, Combat Squading and putting 5 in the DT Razorback and the other 5 in a FA Razorback.

**Leth**

I would go rhinos, that way they can manifest their nova out of the hatch

**Stircrazy**

Wait you you can use Psychic powers from inside of Rhinos?

**obsidiankatana**

Stircrazy wrote:
Wait you you can use Psychic powers from inside of Rhinos?

Only Witchfires.

**Leth**

Yep and novas are witchfires.

Also if both squads are inside then they can both manifest from the same hatch in the same phase.

**Anpu42**

Leth wrote:
Yep and novas are witchfires.

Also if both squads are inside then they can both manifest from the same hatch in the same phase.

I was planning on using them as just "Battle Taxi's" I was not planning fighting from them.

I just looked at the Firing Port Rules and it states Witchfire only, unless I missed an FAQ

**Stircrazy**

So wait... i can put a squad of Purifiers in a rhino move 12 inches towards an opponent and blow fire in their face?

**Leth**

Novas are a type of witchfire......

**Stircrazy**

No i belive ya just my last game was my very first games with my GK's and people were telling me i couldnt

**Anpu42**

Leth wrote:
Novas are a type of witchfire......

Ok, did not reasise that...I don't think that will change much for me, I have only got one 7th game in.

**BladeWalker**

Did not want it to go unnoticed that the Dreadnoughts have Sanctuary by default. Couple that with a gunline deployment and you can have some good tank Terminators. The loss of Psybolts is tough for the Dreads but they still add a Mastery Level and Sanctuary + Draigo is win.

Still trying to find a way to field my old Air Cav Paladin list from 5th.

**obsidiankatana**

Sanctuary targets the psyker exclusively. So you'd have 6++ dreadnoughts.

**BladeWalker**

obsidiankatana wrote:
Sanctuary targets the psyker exclusively. So you'd have 6++ dreadnoughts.

D'oh thanks for the correction before I ran with it. Wow my Dreads suck now...

**Super Newb**

Here's a bit of a random question, would you rather have 5 Interceptors with an incinerator, or for about the same points, a Callidus Assassin?

I plan to run a SW Pod / GK deep strike-shunt list and the callidus seems quite appealing...

**DogOfWar**

BladeWalker wrote:
obsidiankatana wrote:
Sanctuary targets the psyker exclusively. So you'd have 6++ dreadnoughts.

D'oh thanks for the correction before I ran with it. Wow my Dreads suck now...

With the loss of psybolt and the price hike, yeah...

Although I suppose you could put them on a Skyshield if you really wanted to take advantage of Sanctuary (3++ I believe). Then again, you'll probably want to use the Warp Charges elsewhere.

DoW

**Anpu42**

Here is my collection so far. Everything is WYSIWYG and what I had before the new Codex: Grey Knights

Grey Knights [Current] (2247pts)

Grey Knights: Nemesis Strike Force

HQ
Librarian (160pts) [Frag, Krack and Psyk-out grenades, Psychic Hood, Psyker [ML 3], Telepathy), Storm Bolter, Terminator Armour, The Soul Glaive, Warlord]

Elites
Paladin Squad (391pts)
>Apothecary [Narthecium, Nemesis Warding Stave]
>Paladin [Storm Bolter, Two Nemesis Falchions]
>Paladin [Brotherhood banner, Storm Bolter]
>Paladin [Master-Crafted Psilencer, Nemesis Daemon Hammer]
>Paladin [Master-Crafted Psilencer, Nemesis Force Halberd]

Purifier Squad (298pts)
>Knight of the Flame [Master-Crafted, Storm Bolter, Two Nemesis Falchions]
>2x Purifiers [Halberd & Storm Bolter]
>1x Purifier [Hammer & Storm Bolter]
>1x Purifier [Nemesis [Daemon Hammer & Storm Bolter]
>2x Purifiers [Incinerator]
Razorback Vortimer Pattern {FW} [Dozer Blade, Fortitude, Hunter Killer Missile, Smoke launchers, Storm Bolter, Twin-linked Psycannon]

Troops
Strike Squad
> Justicar [Nemesis Force Sword & Storm Bolter]
>1x Grey Knight [ Nemesis Force Halberd & Storm Bolter]
>1x Grey Knight [Nemesis Daemon Hammer & Storm Bolter]
>2x Grey Knight [Nemesis Force Sword & 2x Storm Bolter]
>1x Grey Knight (Psilencer) (30pts)

Terminator Squad (386pts)
>Terminator Justicar [Nemesis Force Halberd & Storm Bolter]
> 1x Terminator [Nemesis Falchions& Storm Bolter]
>6x Terminator [Nemesis Force Sword & Storm Bolter]
>2x Terminator [Nemesis Daemon Hammer & Psilencer]

Fast Attack
Interceptor Squad (155pts)
>Interceptor Justicar [Nemesis Force Halberd & Storm Bolter]
>2x Interceptors [Nemesis Falchions & Storm Bolter]
>1x Interceptor [Nemesis Daemon Hammer & Storm Bolter
>1x Interceptor [Incinerator]

Stormraven Gunship (230pts) [Ceramite Plating, Extra Armor, 4x Stormstrike Missile, Twin-linked assault cannon, Typhoon missile launcher]

Heavy Support
Land Raider Redeemer (265pts) [2x Flamestorm Cannon, Frag assault launchers, Hunter-Killer Missile, Multi-Melta, Searchlight, Smoke launchers, Storm Bolter, Twin-linked assault cannon

Nemesis Dreadknight (210pts) [2x Power fist, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter]

Normally I place The Libby and Paladins in the LRR, but with the Nemesis Strike Force I may change that. The same with the Interceptors and the Stormraven.
I do have a Three other Razorbacks [1x Heavy Bolter, 2x Twin-Linked Las Cannons] I can draw from.

**WrentheFaceless**

Leth wrote:
Novas are a type of witchfire......

Hmm thought Nova's were its own sub type now.

**DogOfWar**

WrentheFaceless wrote:
Leth wrote:
Novas are a type of witchfire......

Hmm thought Nova's were its own sub type now.

They are, but a sub-type of Witchfires. They just auto-hit every enemy unit in range (including flyers etc.) regardless of LoS, melee, etc.

I'm really starting to like the idea of 2 squads of Purifiers coming in turn 1 in Space Wolf Drop Pods, combat squad, and then casting 4 Cleansing Flame (probably need a battery or two somewhere else in the list).

DoW