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Hello folks i was just curious as to where do you think i should start off building a Grey Knight army im picking up the Codex this friday and was curious to everyones thoughts

GK Terminators and NDK seem to be pretty good (and points cheap) from the rumors.

After looking at the leaked codex, I would get a refund. Grey Knights look to be about as awful as Dark Angels. One or two good units and the rest is trash.

Buy a lot of Dread Knights if you are set on taking them.

Well, I think its still worth building up a GK army. They get buffs and nerfs in the new codex, but one can go with it.

The codex got mostly nerfs, half the models got ripped out.

One model got quite a lot of buffs the Dreadknight; overall I would recommend staying away from Grey Knights now. Everyone does what they do but better.

EDIT: Of course if you looking for a deal on a bunch of models...

HQ:
Librarian top tier
Everything else is meh.

Elites:
Paladins and Purifiers top tier
Everything else is crap.

Troops:
Terminators are ok.
Strikes are meh.

Fast attack:
Interceptors are top tier
Stormraven is very meh.

Heavy Support:
There is no heavy support, only Dreadknights. Buy at least 2.

Well this makes me sad.....i love the fluff of GK's guess ill pick another army to start or just build a huge ork army

According to the rumours draigo has s8 ap2 and gate of infinity - worth taking now?

He took almost a straight 1 point hit across his stat line, though. He hits everything at str 7 now, but no longer hits demons at str10.

Gate is good for sure, but has a higher risk level in casting. His point decrease helps, but you have to pay a HQ tax now since he's a lord of war. Granted, our new Librarian is much cheaper, so that helps too.

katfude wrote:
HQ:
Librarian top tier
Everything else is meh.

Elites:
Paladins and Purifiers top tier
Everything else is crap.

Troops:
Terminators are ok.
Strikes are meh.

Fast attack:
Interceptors are top tier
Stormraven is very meh.

Heavy Support:
There is no heavy support, only Dreadknights. Buy at least 2.

How about Crowe and a Grandmaster?
Strikes are still a solid choice.

Oof, Crowe got a total brow beating, along with Champs. No more rending makes him punch like a 12 year old. When he dies, he throws 1 naked baby punch. That's it.

"Grandmaster" AKA ML3 Brother Captain is OK, but lost access to A LOT of toys. No more Grand Strategy, orbital bombs every turn... etc etc etc.

 wuestenfux wrote:


How about Crowe and a Grandmaster?
Strikes are still a solid choice.

Crowe and Grandmaster seems horrible IMO.

Strikes are too expensive marines. What made them OK in last edition was the psyammo. The change to psycannons is also a small nerf.

Tyfus wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:


How about Crowe and a Grandmaster?
Strikes are still a solid choice.

Crowe and Grandmaster seems horrible IMO.

Strikes are too expensive marines. What made them OK in last edition was the psyammo. The change to psycannons is also a small nerf.

Totally agree. Psycannons are nearly unusable on them with salvo unless you attach a terminator armor IC to slow and purposeful them. Shooting twice at a range of 12 inches when you move and then not being able to assault is laughable at best and a total slap in the face at worst.

katfude wrote:

Tyfus wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:


How about Crowe and a Grandmaster?
Strikes are still a solid choice.

Crowe and Grandmaster seems horrible IMO.

Strikes are too expensive marines. What made them OK in last edition was the psyammo. The change to psycannons is also a small nerf.

Totally agree. Psycannons are nearly unusable on them with salvo unless you attach a terminator armor IC to slow and purposeful them. Shooting twice at a range of 12 inches when you move and then not being able to assault is laughable at best and a total slap in the face at worst.

I think you mean relentless?

Not to forget that the old strikes in 5.ed priced at 20 points (same as now) had access to the great pscychic power warp quake. Great for anti deep strike.

From what I've seen, I generally agree with Goldphish and katfude. This is going to be a bit of a rant.

In terms of HQs other than the Libby, there's basically nothing good.

There's no real reason to take a GM anymore, as Grand Strategy is now just the warlord traits table, and not as useful. So Bro-captains/GMs are just psyker Captains/CMs without the capability of actually being a beatstick. The psyker is nice, but too expensive iirc compared to a Libby. Crowe is now total terribad, there's no benefit to purifiers that I saw from taking him, and he's lost his 4+ rending, so he's totally useless outside of a challenge. Heroic Sac is now just an attack, not a removes-from-play At least he's now an IC. Bro-Champs are also terribad, and actually nerfed from the 5th Ed. Codex with a huge points increase for no discernible reason. Draigo is now a LoW, so no longer here, but he's not terrible. He at least has AP2 back, at S7 all the time, but he's lost the ability to choose powers that he gained in 7th. He does come with Gate standard though, so you can put him into a Cent-star or something if you need guaranteed Gate. Specialized grenades are now gone from GK, so no reason to take GMs or Techmarines for that. Psyk-out grenades now can be thrown and cause perils when thrown, but now they only remove +1 attack for charging from psykers instead of an Init drop, so good luck taking on Greater Daemons!

Elites. Paladins have nerds and some buffs. Apothecaries got cheaper I think, but now CC weapons need points to buy, so overall I dunno. Purifiers are also okay b/c they're ML2 iirc, but nova powers are still hard to pull off.

Troops. Strikes are, imo, bad now. They have maybe one role, and that is to DS in (if they didn't lose that too), and use a S6 flamer. Let's just go into Ranged weapons for a second. Psycannons are now terribad on strikes and anything that isn't Relentless (remember that Relentless is by model not by unit, so no granting it from Terminator ICs) because they are Salvo weapons. On Terminators they're like they used to be, but on PAGK they totally take away your mobility. Psilencers gained Force, which seems better than it is, until you realize that it's still S4, so the only thing they're really good against is, you guessed it, Tyranid Warriors (Bloodcrushers too, but nobody takes those either). Like Tyranid Warriors needed any more hard counters. Still, now that Psybolt ammo is no longer a thing, putting out a bunch of S4 is about the best that GK can do. Oh yeah, psybolt ammo is gone, so GK no longer has significant ranged firepower. Oh, btw, all GK transports lost Psychic Pilot, so no more razorback spam, both because they are now S5 instead of a useful S6, and no longer give you WC (which is a 7th buff, but GW is still thinking that GK are 5th Edition Overpowered, so nerds all around). Terminators got some side-grades -- they're only about as expensive as TDAWGs, but now they pay for their weapons, putting them back up to useless costs if you upgrade them. Incinerators now give the impactful SOUL BLAZE rule, but no nerfs, so expect to only see incinerators on PAGK, unless the meta is filled with stuff S4 Ap- Force counters.

Fast Attack. Interceptors are still okay, at least they can still basically do what they used to do beforehand. The Stormraven doesn't even have any options to buy iirc, and it lost Mindstrike missiles, so no more countering seer council with it.

Heavy Support. Well, guess it's a good thing I left all my 'psyflemen' dreads unpainted, cause they're now more points than they used to be before, they lost psybolt ammo, and they don't even have Reinforced Aegis (iirc). GW doesn't seem to realize why people don't take Dreads, but then again, there are a lot of things they don't realize. They do seem to want us to buy more Dreadknight kits, cause that's the only thing that really got buffed in the codex. The Greatsword did lose the re-rolls on everything, but everything got significantly cheaper for the NDK. Expect to see all available GK HS slots filled with Dreadknights. Purgation are terribad as normal -- no discount on specials, no relentless, no Astral Aim, just Night Vision, cause ignoring first turn Stealth really makes them worth it.


There are always some possibilities that come with each codex, but GK lost so much even from its mid-tier level that it feels very disappointing to me. The only army I can see working out is max interceptors/NDKs for shunt-punch, but you've lost Mordrak as well for any potential alpha strike. Allies also could be useful.

As someone who also owns DE and Necrons, I'm not looking forwards to those releases, given what we've seen so far from Orks and now GK.

Indeed, Strikes got nerfed.
The new FOC just requires one troop unit and so GK players should be able to live with it.
Strikes can deep strike and so might get into target range for the psycannon.

 wuestenfux wrote:

The new FOC just requires one troop unit and so GK players should be able to live with it.
Strikes can deep strike and so might get into target range for the psycannon.

I might be missing something. Is the normal force slot for GK only one troop ? I thought it was only 1 troop in the unique detachment formation - Nemesis strike force.

I dont' see the one slot troop useful. Troops with objective secure is important. If you take the Nemisis strike force you don't get objective secured in it. And you only get 2 heavies (read: 2 dreadknights).I would rate the formation as bad.

If you want a alpha strike; deploy your 3 dreadknights in cover on table and shunt turn 1. Normally much better then deepstrike. Add in a ally with drop pods.

Deep striking strikes seems risky with mishap. You need to get within 12" to shoot psycannon. And deepstriking stormbolters are scaring noone.

Is there anyway to run just Driago, Paladins, and Dreadknights? Or am I going to be forced to run som Terminaters?

GK Characters and units all having set powers will be huge.

GK characters all have a lot of potential...I'm already playing with many squad mixtures

Terminators will be the go to.

Interceptors took a hit with the loss of psybolt ammo.

Dreadknights are still solid.

I like that Purgators got night vision, I like free soul blaze on purifiers. Means less warp charges spent there and more in other places.

Libbies are nuts.

Brother Captain finally worth taking.

Relics cheap enough to be useful but not too often game changing.



Looks like a swing back to the Water Warrior ways...I'm very happy with the turnout of the book. Toned down vehicle spam and let Terminator armor out of the gates.

 Zagman wrote:
Is there anyway to run just Driago, Paladins, and Dreadknights? Or am I going to be forced to run som Terminaters?

Then you don't have anythin in the troop section. Draigo don't make paladins troop. So yo're unbound then...

Unfortunate, first time I've ever thought about playing unbound..... Just to play the army I've played for years....

Ugg, probably going to be Driago, Libby, 2x Terminators, Paladins, Dreadknights running a CAD.

 Zagman wrote:
Unfortunate, first time I've ever thought about playing unbound..... Just to play the army I've played for years....

Ugg, probably going to be Driago, Libby, 2x Terminators, Paladins, Dreadknights running a CAD.

Yeah to bad it's no force swapping from Draigo.

I see a lot of players who want to do the special detachment instead of CAD, but in my games in 7.ed objective secured units have been really important.

Why not just Draigo up with cheap termies?



Sidenote: As I've not played my GKs in 7th yet. Is this deepstrike 1st turn option available to any pure GK player in every game?

 ductvader wrote:


Sidenote: As I've not played my GKs in 7th yet. Is this deepstrike 1st turn option available to any pure GK player in every game?

The deep strike turn one are available through a special GK detachment in the new codex. Only affects units in the detachment. You have to roll the 3+ reserve for each unit though.

 ductvader wrote:
Why not just Draigo up with cheap termies?



Sidenote: As I've not played my GKs in 7th yet. Is this deepstrike 1st turn option available to any pure GK player in every game?

I will for two minimum squads for around 200pts each.

But, paladins now have access to cheap FNP and Psycannon everywhere. 20pt Apothecary upgrade is pretty ridiculous. I'll actually have to model one now.

Dreadknights are going to be sick, so will Paladins, Driago will be better and worse.... no chance for Precognition though. Throw in a Libby with the Relic rolling on Sanctic and you have a 2/3 chance of rolling Sanctuary and bumping Driago to a 2++.

Overally, I think I"m going to like it.


Plus, Force on a ranged weapons. Makes Psilencers potentially worth it for instabigging Multiwound models at S4.


The entire army is going to play very very differently than it did in 5th/6th/7th.

I just wish I could make my now mandatory Terminators Paladins. Grumble Grumble...

 Zagman wrote:

I just wish I could make my now mandatory Terminators Paladins. Grumble Grumble...

If you use the special detachment that allows turn 1 deep strike then you only need 1 mandatory unit of Terminators and you'll have 4 elite slots for Paladins. Not too bad.

It seems like GK are gonna be Imperium of Man all-star allies. However, running them alone has definitely gotten a lot weaker, with so many options removed. Although the PA psycannon nerf is pretty brutal, Incinerators being 5 pts is pretty spicy and gives some interesting possibilities. I think the Psilencer is still junk though. I have no idea why they bothered making the Heavy Psycannon salvo, with the only possible platform being relentless, but that gives the NDK a very strong shooting element that threatens all armor values.

I'm already looking at running them as my primary with double-blob AM allied in. Two ML 3 Terminator Librarians gives very, very good odds of picking up the powers you need, not to mention the ML boost you get from your obligatory NDKs and troops. I might even get a little greedy and run the alternate detachment with only one troops choice as my primary to let me squeeze in that third NDK.

Also, are NDK any good at fighting the superheavy Knights? You figure with 4-5 power fist attacks, they would stand a strong chance of pummelling an armor 13 target. Even a straight trade is a good deal for the GK player.

I like those relics, the bone shard is the only thing that I don't see being a regular choice.

Fighting an Imperial Knight is not the ideal matchup for a Dreadknight, but a few of them going at the same time should do a Knight in.

While I'm normally against Paladins...FnP is nice with Grav Guns out there...I think the math makes Paladins somewhere around 3 times more survivable than stock terminators on a point to point scale.
But I'm just scribbling numbers...

Stormravens are still solid anti armor/flyers

Just lascannon/melta it up now. And the missles are solid at str 8 ap 2

No more mindstrike troo

But all of our marines now have mindstrike grenades