Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I only wish it was cheaper, 75 points is a bit pricy for a one way delivery system.

This is why I don't like the instant death rules. If your opponent has a bit of S10, then 75pts is a bit painful to lose in 1 shot. If your opponent doesn't have any S10, then you're looking at 12.5pts per T5 4+ save wound which is actually pretty good and will take a decent amount of firepower to bring down.

Yes, but how much did your opponent pay for that s10 shot?

 silverstu wrote:

 ChaosxVoid wrote:
My only fear is the cost of these bugstards, It might have been said already but I can't be bothered at 11 pm lol, but this might just call for the return my purple and red nids

Supposed to be around £37 each- not bad at all I think.

Oh thats actually not that bad, damn.
Guess I'll be dusting off the red and purple horde.

 flukezor wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I only wish it was cheaper, 75 points is a bit pricy for a one way delivery system.

This is why I don't like the instant death rules. If your opponent has a bit of S10, then 75pts is a bit painful to lose in 1 shot. If your opponent doesn't have any S10, then you're looking at 12.5pts per T5 4+ save wound which is actually pretty good and will take a decent amount of firepower to bring down.

Yes, but how much did your opponent pay for that s10 shot?

Many S10 things are cheap enough that 75pts in a single turn is a good rate of return. Demolisher or Manticore are 170pts, if 1 of those turns is a 75pt model I think that's a decent rate of return (though against a Tyranid army you can quite possibly find an even juicer target). Vindicator is only 125pts, if it lives long enough to shoot it. Wraithknight is 240pts, but it's hardly spending 240pts to kill a 75pt model, in the turns it's not shooting the drop pod thingo it'll be stripping wounds off other MC's.

So yeah, I stand by what I said, if your opponent is packing a bit of S10, 75pts for a single wound and no armour save isn't a great rate of return.

Many S10 things are cheap enough that 75pts in a single turn is a good rate of return. Demolisher or Manticore are 170pts, if 1 of those turns is a 75pt model I think that's a decent rate of return (though against a Tyranid army you can quite possibly find an even juicer target). Vindicator is only 125pts, if it lives long enough to shoot it. Wraithknight is 240pts, but it's hardly spending 240pts to kill a 75pt model, in the turns it's not shooting the drop pod thingo it'll be stripping wounds off other MC's.

So yeah, I stand by what I said, if your opponent is packing a bit of S10, 75pts for a single wound and no armour save isn't a great rate of return.

Don't drop your pod right in front of the S10 weapons then? With the 6 inch disembark and the mishap avoidance there should be plenty of opportunities to get close and yet get cover or LOS blocked from the S10 stuff.
Also if the thing that got out of the pod (or something else on the table) isn't scarier than the 75 point pod then you're not putting enough threats into your opponents face.

There are way more expensive things that will also get one-shot by S10 weapons. Why point this out specifically?

I have to agree, the "They have ID to strength 10" is really not that big a deal. Most armies don't really have a lot of access to strength 10. I can't even remember the last time I saw a Railhead on the Tabletop.

The only regular strength 10 that I see run regularly competitively, is usually a Wraith Knight.

Plus, if they do have strength 10 I'd rather them point it at my drop pod that's already done it's primary job, than something else anyway.

If it was ID to strength 8, then I would concede an issue. Strength 10 ID is really not an issue though.

When i hear people complain about getting doubled out on T5 models all I can think of is this....

Mod Edit: Please don't post links like this on the forum. - RiTides

Seriously for 75 points each you can have 3.5 of them which is the cost of one stock wraithknight....

Do what they do in the movie frozen... Let it go...its a awesome model with good rules.

As a long time tyranid player (who JUST finished my army....gack!) I am quite pleased with this news!
(makes up for the malecrapteor).

The new drop pod feels correctly priced, especially since it has a lot of other uses (75 is too steep just for deep strike) but this thing can be useful for area denial, blocking etc. (at bs2 thats about it, since most enemy units will only get targeted by one or two guns).

I do admit however, it would have been nice to have a 30 point version that just deep strikes...but hey, this is better than what we had yesterday...

The new giant spore mines are cool - basically we are paying for a one use orbital type strike - not bad at all.
(although folks who are thining "wow cheap troop wounds" I point out their armor save....).

Now, gw, put the rules on the website....

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
Not a Codex.
The first photo is the center pages of a magazine, you can see the staples.

Spoiler:

Panic...

Heh.

I think we'll be seeing some FAQs rolling out soon getting rid of Space Wolf Drop Pod Battle Buddy nonsense...

Why? They are using up a FA slot that could be used for more TWC to get it. The Tyranid DP doesn't use any slot at all.

Specifically read what it says about who can ride in the new Tyranid pod.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
Not a Codex.
The first photo is the center pages of a magazine, you can see the staples.

Spoiler:

Panic...

Heh.

I think we'll be seeing some FAQs rolling out soon getting rid of Space Wolf Drop Pod Battle Buddy nonsense...

Why? They are using up a FA slot that could be used for more TWC to get it. The Tyranid DP doesn't use any slot at all.

Specifically read what it says about who can ride in the new Tyranid pod.

I don't think that the faction specific quote will be errata'a in.

yeah,
I think the Kit will make 1 Mucolid and either 1 Tyrannocyte or 1 Sporocyst.
where are people getting the info that the Kit makes one Tyrannocyte -or- 1 Sporocyst & 1 Mucolid.

I can see the shared parts of the Tyrannocyte and Sporocyst But I can't see the shared parts of the Tyrannocyte and Mucolid.
I think people may be reading between the lines wrong because you get 1 Mucolid with a Sporocyst.

Panic...

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
I think the Kit will make 1 Mucolid and either 1 Tyrannocyte or 1 Sporocyst.
where are people getting the info that the Kit makes one Tyrannocyte -or- 1 Sporocyst & 1 Mucolid.

I can see the shared parts of the Tyrannocyte and Sporocyst But I can't see the shared parts of the Tyrannocyte and Mucolid.
I think people may be reading between the lines wrong because you get 1 Mucolid with a Sporocyst.

Panic...

The tentacles the Tyrannocyte is held aloft on look like the same as those of the Mucolid.

yeah,
In this photo the mucolid and it's tentacles look much smaller... although that could be the photo.

Panic...

Can we PLEASE get some info about the firing arcs on the tyrannocytes?

I'm guessing they intended it to be identical to a normal drop pod, but since it's an MC all weapons have 360 degree vision unless there's a rule saying otherwise.

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
In this photo the mucolid and it's tentacles look much smaller... although that could be the photo.

Panic...

Ah, true enough. Seems like you can always make a Mucolid then. Nice.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Can we PLEASE get some info about the firing arcs on the tyrannocytes?

From reading the Instinctive Fire rule, I think the intended behaviour is that each gun fires separately at its closed target. So you can fire all 5 if they all have something to fire at, but no 360 degrees field of view for each one.

 Redemption wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Can we PLEASE get some info about the firing arcs on the tyrannocytes?

From reading the Instinctive Fire rule, I think the intended behaviour is that each gun fires separately at its closed target. So you can fire all 5 if they all have something to fire at, but no 360 degrees field of view for each one.

Unless 1 target is the closest to all weapons. MC's dont have a firing arc, it's not a vehicle.

Yes, and you normally don't measure from the weapon's barrel for a MC either, but the Instinctive Fire rule changes that as well.

RAW, it's just another rule of GW's usual quality, I suppose, but the intention of it only firing at what the (fixed) weapons can see seems pretty clear.

 Redemption wrote:
Yes, and you normally don't measure from the weapon's barrel for a MC either, but the Instinctive Fire rule changes that as well.

RAW, it's just another rule of GW's usual quality, I suppose, but the intention of it only firing at what the (fixed) weapons can see seems pretty clear.

Not sure if I agree with that RAI. It shows no intention of it working that way- no mention of arcs or anything for that matter. A living creature can move around to make all guns get a shot on the closest enemy.

 Redemption wrote:
Yes, and you normally don't measure from the weapon's barrel for a MC either, but the Instinctive Fire rule changes that as well.

RAW, it's just another rule of GW's usual quality, I suppose, but the intention of it only firing at what the (fixed) weapons can see seems pretty clear.

You could write an entire book on what people believe GW intends. The fact is, it's not a vehicle so it has no fixed fire arc, no weapon arc, no measuring from weapons or any of that. It's irrelevant how you measure from a vehicle because its not a vehicle.

Instinctive fire changes nothing on a per weapon basis (because they are all at the same range), it merely says the weapons must fire at closest target. Which means all 5 fire at the closest target. I will agree they probably wanted to simply steal the rules from the Deathwind drop pod, however they forgot it's not a vehicle.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Not sure if I agree with that RAI. It shows no intention of it working that way- no mention of arcs or anything for that matter. A living creature can move around to make all guns get a shot on the closest enemy.

Someone said it can move and then someone said that it can't. If it is in fact immobile, would it still be able to move around to shoot what it wants?

Is the Helldrake a vehicle or a Daemon? It no longer gets a 360 degree firing arc..

 agnosto wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Not sure if I agree with that RAI. It shows no intention of it working that way- no mention of arcs or anything for that matter. A living creature can move around to make all guns get a shot on the closest enemy.

Someone said it can move and then someone said that it can't. If it is in fact immobile, would it still be able to move around to shoot what it wants?

Is the Helldrake a vehicle or a Daemon? It no longer gets a 360 degree firing arc..

Huh? Comparing 2 different things.. Demons are not unit types. It's both because vehicle is a unit type.

It can move, read its rules. Even if it couldn't, it would still have a 360 degree firing arc.

 Kirasu wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Not sure if I agree with that RAI. It shows no intention of it working that way- no mention of arcs or anything for that matter. A living creature can move around to make all guns get a shot on the closest enemy.

Someone said it can move and then someone said that it can't. If it is in fact immobile, would it still be able to move around to shoot what it wants?

Is the Helldrake a vehicle or a Daemon? It no longer gets a 360 degree firing arc..

Huh? Comparing 2 different things.. Demons are not unit types. It's both because vehicle is a unit type.

Just curious. I could see it both ways and we all know how GW writes rules.

They're Monstrous Creatures. Monstrous Creatures don't have firing arcs. All ranges are measured from the base.

 agnosto wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Not sure if I agree with that RAI. It shows no intention of it working that way- no mention of arcs or anything for that matter. A living creature can move around to make all guns get a shot on the closest enemy.

Someone said it can move and then someone said that it can't. If it is in fact immobile, would it still be able to move around to shoot what it wants?

Is the Helldrake a vehicle or a Daemon? It no longer gets a 360 degree firing arc..

Huh? Comparing 2 different things.. Demons are not unit types. It's both because vehicle is a unit type.

Just curious. I could see it both ways and we all know how GW writes rules.

What are *both* ways? The .. rules for MCs vs the rules for vehicles? It's not a vehicle.. there are no 2 ways.

Yeah, I think the "each weapon can fire at a different target" is for cases where you have multiple enemy units that are equally close. RAW at this point, the model is a Monstrous Creature who have 360 degree firing arcs for all weapons. Instinctive Fire lets you fire all 5 weapons (thus overriding the normal MC limit of 2 weapons), but specifies the way it targets (closest enemy unit).

Seems kind of straight forward in a curvy sorta way.

Then it's just an oddly written rule? The OP has wording that each gun fires at its closest target; if you can fire all your guns (already circumventing one MC rule) at each closest target, then why wouldn't they all just shoot one target closest to the MC?

 agnosto wrote:
Then it's just an oddly written rule? The OP has wording that each gun fires at its closest target; if you can fire all your guns (already circumventing one MC rule) at each closest target, then why wouldn't they all just shoot one target closest to the MC.

Under normal circumstances I think that's exactly what happens. 5 guns at 1 target. As my post above though, it's possible you might have several units equally close to you. In that (somewhat specific) circumstance, you would be able to split the 5 weapons among your two (or more) equally close targets.

Except that you'll never have 5 equidistant targets, since we're playing a game that uses rulers rather than counting spaces and hexes.