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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm not seeing where the MoT Knight would reroll his save. I'm missing something I'm sure.

Jy2 already said that Daemons Knights of X also count as having Daemon of X and this is ruled as such in ITC and stuff.

So a Chaos Knight of Tzeentch rerolls 1's to save because its also a Daemon of Tzeentch

Oooooookay. I was just looking at what the PDF said.

The MoN one throwing defensive grenades is definitely funny then.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Oooooookay. I was just looking at what the PDF said.

The MoN one throwing defensive grenades is definitely funny then.

It is a matter of RAI vs RAW.

The rules for a Chaos Knight says that a Daemon Knight of <God> counts as a Daemon aligned with <God>. Now that is somewhat ambiguous because by RAW, there is no such thing as a Daemon aligned with <God> (there is only a Daemon of <God> ). Most people believe that the RAI is that a Daemon aligned with <God> should be the same as a Daemon of <God>. They demonstrated this by voting for the RAI interpretation in the latest ITC voting poll.

Personally, I believe the RAI is correct as the RAW is nonsense and GW sucks at writing. Lol.

I figured it just meant for random bonuses or getting hit by the Warpstorm and junk. Beats me.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I figured it just meant for random bonuses or getting hit by the Warpstorm and junk. Beats me.

I agree. Frankly I think RAI is that they don't also get Daemon of X either because if they had intended for it to do so they would have actually put in Daemon of X

 CrownAxe wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I figured it just meant for random bonuses or getting hit by the Warpstorm and junk. Beats me.

I agree. Frankly I think RAI is that they don't also get Daemon of X either because if they had intended for it to do so they would have actually put in Daemon of X

There'd be no point to even mentioning about them being a Daemon aligned with <God> then. They should have just left it as "a Knight of <God> counts as being a Daemon" instead of "a Knight of <God> counts as being a Daemon aligned with <God>."

In any case, I think we can all agree that GW/FW writing has been sloppy as of late (as in, the last 2 editions). So did the ITC public, which was why the majority of them voted for what they believed GW had intended.

The price of each upgrade make also a lot more sense if they include being a Demon of X.
A CK benefits greatly from the base rules included when being a demon of Tzeentch or Nurgle while benefiting a lot less of being Demon of Slaanesh or Khorne.

CK of Tzeentch pays 75pts to get reroll 1 to hit and Soul Blaze heavy stubbers ? Please... it is just crazy overpriced. Unless it also include being a Demon of Tzeentch with that sweet reroll on saves.

I agree. It's the only thing that makes the TZ cost worth it.
Fleet is still pretty sweet though. Does rending apply to stomps?

 labmouse42 wrote:
I agree. It's the only thing that makes the TZ cost worth it.
Fleet is still pretty sweet though. Does rending apply to stomps?

That's a good one. I actually hadn't thought of that - Rending on Stomps. Ouch! Honestly, going to have to research that one.

Don't forget that the Slaanesh Knight not only has Fleet, but he runs an additional +3" as well.

This thread is the primary reason I made a Dakka account. Great work guys, I love reading about your experiences with Infernal Tetrad.

Fakkz wrote:
This thread is the primary reason I made a Dakka account. Great work guys, I love reading about your experiences with Infernal Tetrad.

Thanks, and welcome to Dakka!

Hey new here^^.

So what do you think if the FAQs stay this way? Buff for MCs or Nerf?

Rule for Psycic Powers made DPs a lot better in my opinion! What do you think?

 Darksider wrote:
Hey new here^^.

So what do you think if the FAQs stay this way? Buff for MCs or Nerf?

Rule for Psycic Powers made DPs a lot better in my opinion! What do you think?

It definitely keeps them as top tier psykers, the only thing that could hurt them is if FMCs blanket get no toe in cover. I hope it just applies to them while swooping, but we wont know for sure until an updated version is released.

NOW the multi-assaulting multiple units with a single MC is a HUGE boon to tetrad, as with their 12" move, it is fairly easy to position them in a way to charge multiple units. DO the ol' how to kill a 3++ riptide tactic, assault it and another unit, throw everything into the other unit, and sweep the riptide!

 Darksider wrote:
Hey new here^^.

So what do you think if the FAQs stay this way? Buff for MCs or Nerf?

Rule for Psycic Powers made DPs a lot better in my opinion! What do you think?

Welcome to Dakka!

The new FAQ's definitely help our FMC's:

1. Multi-assault with just 1 model.

2. Psychic Shriek auto-hitting is a boon.

3. Enemy units can only attack with 1 grenade.

4. Blasts/templates no longer being able to hit flyers.


The loss of toe-in-terrain hurts a little, but we can still jink. Moreover, we can still jink and auto-hit with Shriek.

I think you're going to see the Bell Herald + Shriek Tetrad become more popular now.

 jy2 wrote:
The new FAQ's definitely help our FMC's:

1. Multi-assault with just 1 model.

2. Psychic Shriek auto-hitting is a boon.

3. Enemy units can only attack with 1 grenade.

4. Blasts/templates no longer being able to hit flyers.

I agree with all of these.

Also beam weapons can no longer hit flyers.

 jy2 wrote:

The loss of toe-in-terrain hurts a little, but we can still jink. Moreover, we can still jink and auto-hit with Shriek.

I don't think this is right. The FAQ clarifies Psychic Shriek does not need to roll to hit, but it is still a witchfire and therefore a shooting attack. Rules on snapshots say (to some effect, rulebook isn't in front of me) that you can't use shooting attacks that don't roll to hit as snapshots. So no Jink & Shriek, awesome as that would be.

Blast and templates CAN hit flyers if the firing model has skyfire though. So your Nurgle DP can take flight and fire off its primaris power at another FMC just for laughs.

I think Shriek still needs a bit of clarification. Right now I would play it as a shooting attack that auto hits, so it can't snap fire, which stinks because its just yelling with your brain. Though there are some arguments popping up for it to be used against invisibility, as it doesn't need to hit.

The grenades is a huge buff to tetrad. Nurgle prince got hit hard needing 25% cover, but with jink its all ok.

Fhionnuisce wrote:
The FAQ clarifies Psychic Shriek does not need to roll to hit, but it is still a witchfire and therefore a shooting attack. Rules on snapshots say (to some effect, rulebook isn't in front of me) that you can't use shooting attacks that don't roll to hit as snapshots. So no Jink & Shriek, awesome as that would be.

Lets take a look at the rules.

p167 BRB
"If a unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn"

p33 BRB
Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnances, or those that have certain special rules, such as blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots. In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be 'fired' as a snap shot.

FAQ
However, some witchfire powers do not have a weapon profile (Such as the Telepathy power Psychic Shriek); where this is the case no To Hit roll is required -- the attack automatically hits.

The Question
The question is this -- since psychic shriek does not have a weapon profile, does it classify as a 'shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill'?

Personally I don't think so, given that it does not have a profile. The RAI is clearly intended to include things such a blast templates.
Of course, I have been wrong many times before

 labmouse42 wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:
The FAQ clarifies Psychic Shriek does not need to roll to hit, but it is still a witchfire and therefore a shooting attack. Rules on snapshots say (to some effect, rulebook isn't in front of me) that you can't use shooting attacks that don't roll to hit as snapshots. So no Jink & Shriek, awesome as that would be.

Lets take a look at the rules.

p167 BRB
"If a unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn"

p33 BRB
Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnances, or those that have certain special rules, such as blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots. In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be 'fired' as a snap shot.

FAQ
However, some witchfire powers do not have a weapon profile (Such as the Telepathy power Psychic Shriek); where this is the case no To Hit roll is required -- the attack automatically hits.

The Question
The question is this -- since psychic shriek does not have a weapon profile, does it classify as a 'shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill'?

Personally I don't think so, given that it does not have a profile. The RAI is clearly intended to include things such a blast templates.
Of course, I have been wrong many times before

I personally would agree with you, but can see it both ways. Time will (hopefully) tell.

It will be argued in YMDC for 20+ pages as these things tend to be

However to me the fact that blast, ordnance, and template weapons are listed separately strongly implies they are not all that is meant by attacks that do not use BS. We'll see how everything plays out over time, but I would not recommend dropping a lot of money to build an army around Jink & Shriek just yet.

Fhionnuisce wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

The loss of toe-in-terrain hurts a little, but we can still jink. Moreover, we can still jink and auto-hit with Shriek.

I don't think this is right. The FAQ clarifies Psychic Shriek does not need to roll to hit, but it is still a witchfire and therefore a shooting attack. Rules on snapshots say (to some effect, rulebook isn't in front of me) that you can't use shooting attacks that don't roll to hit as snapshots. So no Jink & Shriek, awesome as that would be.

Actually, I agree with you.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:
The FAQ clarifies Psychic Shriek does not need to roll to hit, but it is still a witchfire and therefore a shooting attack. Rules on snapshots say (to some effect, rulebook isn't in front of me) that you can't use shooting attacks that don't roll to hit as snapshots. So no Jink & Shriek, awesome as that would be.

Lets take a look at the rules.

p167 BRB
"If a unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn"

p33 BRB
Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnances, or those that have certain special rules, such as blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots. In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be 'fired' as a snap shot.

FAQ
However, some witchfire powers do not have a weapon profile (Such as the Telepathy power Psychic Shriek); where this is the case no To Hit roll is required -- the attack automatically hits.

The Question
The question is this -- since psychic shriek does not have a weapon profile, does it classify as a 'shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill'?

Personally I don't think so, given that it does not have a profile. The RAI is clearly intended to include things such a blast templates.
Of course, I have been wrong many times before

It in fact exactly qualifies as a "shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill", as all witchfires are psychic shooting attacks, and as it auto hits, it does not use BS. I would say no jink and shriek

ok asked to clarify the question jink and shriek they will take it into account.

You're the man, blackmage!

RAI, Daemon Knight/Titan of X is not supposed to be the same as Daemon of X. This is easily demonstrated by the fact that Daemon Knight/Titan of X lists several special rules that are already contained in Daemon of X, which would not be necessary or useful if Daemon Knight/Titan of X directly incorporated Daemon of X. Furthermore, I've heard that the guy who wrote the original rules (in IA:13) was asked about this verbally and expressed surprised that anyone thought you would get Daemon of X. Finally, I've emailed Forgeworld and they've also strongly suggested that you don't get Daemon of X.

RAW you can make arguments of language either way, and it's a stupid restriction anyway.

ITC's ruling seems "wrong" but if people really did vote for it (I was not aware of that, need to go look at the FAQ), then that's a huge buff to Daemon Knights and I might play them locally at ITC events. But I think this may get FAQ'd soon by GW or FW or both.

Until GW/FW officially announces how a Daemon Knight of X is played somewhere on its website, it is all speculation to me. I don't take much stock as to what just 1 employee says. They have been known to make mistakes as well. There is no point to bring up that it is a Daemon aligned with X if that plays no part in the rules at all.

In any case, the ruling for the ITC was voted on by the people so yeah, the Chaos Knight got buffed in the ITC format....or perhaps it just got what is rightfully its to begin with. Who knows and more importantly, who cares? No other major tournament format allows the Chaos Knight for their tournaments besides the ITC and those who follow the ITC rulesets. That's all that matters - what the ITC public thinks.

Tonight I played Tetrad vs Tetrad.
I brought a 'Pacific Rim' Tetrad with 2 knights. He brought 4 squads of daemonettes, 1 squad of seekers and 1 herald with his princes.
We were playing NOVA format, and both choose to score at the end. I took 'linebreaker', 'marked for death', and 'kill points'. He took 'Heart of the Matter', 'Marked for Death' and 'Linebreaker'.

I was really quite impressed with his ability to spawn out new heralds, and he completely dominated me on the psychic phase. His daemonettes were also a significant threat to my princes, and his princes were better equipped than mine.

The knights parted daemonettes like Moses and the red sea. Most of the damage came from stomps and entire squads were removed.
The knights also stomped out the Tzeentch prince, though that was after the Tzeentch prince did 5 hull points of damage to the knight. If he was able to get another prince into it, the knight would have died.

My opponent made a few mistakes, like falling into the temptation on keeping the slaanesh prince swooping the entire game to use iron arm and lash of submission. Sure, 2d6 STR 10 attacks are nice, but at 300 points, its a big investment. He kept his nurgle prince in the air, which allowed me to focus 3 of my princes and 1 knight into his 2 princes, overwhelming him.

Even with those mistakes, the primary mission was close, with the only reason I got it was that he was unable to consolidate onto an objective.
It was also a very interesting and fun game to play tetrad vs tetrad.

@labmouse42

He brought the more TAC Tetrad list but you outplayed him still. Good job!

BTW, were you guys playing the new GW FAQ (i.e. auto-hit Shrieks)?

Thanks for all the replies^^.

It's very interesting to see what this FAQ will change.

 Darksider wrote:
I also want to ask is there a viable Build for a 1500 Point Tetrad List? In my area there a lots of 1500 or 1850 Games and at home we also play a lot of 1500 Point Games.

How about something along the lines of

Infernal Tetrad + Daemon CAD
Infernal Tetrad
Khorne Prince, Flight, Armour of Scorn, 2xGreater reward, 1 Lesser reward
Tzeench Prince, Flight, Mastery Level 3, Impossible robes, 1 Lesser reward
Slaanesh Prince, Flight, Warp-forged armour, Mastery Level 3, 2xGreater reward
Nurgle Prince, Flight, Warp-forged armour, Mastery Level 3, 2xGreater reward
--1240pts

Daemon CAD
Herald of Nurgle, Mastery Level 2, The Doomsday Bell
Nurglings
10xPlaguebearers
--260pts
1500pts

If you don't want the bell but rather want more Warp charges, you can switch the Nurgle Daemon CAD for a Tzeentch Daemon CAD

Herald of Tzeentch
12xPink horrors, Iridescent Horror
11xPink horrors