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 Red Corsair wrote:

Mazzyx wrote:
If the zerkers didn't kill it after the second set of 20+ attacks you need new dice.

What it is great for is lords, warp talons, and termis.

Your not thinking of all the applications, they can wipe a unit out then you activate them again and they get another 3" of movement to get within an inch of an enemy bash there brains in and still get a post combat phase 3" yet again. Basically just that threat makes berserkers something the opponent HAS to deal with early which is something I have not heard of since the 3.5 days

You can't attack something you didnt charge. The berserkers can consolidate into them, but then the enemy will activate and whack em before leaving in the next turn.
Also, I'm pretty certain you can't activate a unit that isnt "in combat" within 1" of an enemy model. If the berserkers kill everything in their first activation, they don't get any further activations because they're no longer in combat.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Would you spend 2 CP's on giving 2-3 berzerkers a third go in combat? I know I wouldn't most of the time.

Likewise, I doubt I'd spend 2 CP's on giving 9-10 berzerkers a third go either. There are exceptions of course, but alot of things don't really survive 2 waves of attacks from berzerkers in the first place, or become so crippled that it's not worth the 2 CP to finish them of before morale does.

Now, spending 2 CP's on getting my WE Terminators or Warptalons or Possessed strike a second time...that thought warms the heart.

Three pile ins with a possible consolidation into combat makes 9-12 inches of extra movement. You can send one big unit in and tie up most of their army.

Sure you "can", but it's not really that realistic is it?

Hugh? Whats unrealistic about it, I have had berserkers double pile in and condolidate a few times already to tie units up, and even overkill once. I never claimed it was a guarantee, that's not how die games works lol. Attributing realism here is rather daft.

You said "big unit" that can tie up most of the enemy army.
"Big unit" means bigger than 10, so no Rhino.
No Rhino = footslog.
If your opponent let's you footslog over the table with a big berzerker-unit, big enough to let you pretty much consolidate into the majority of their army, your opponent deserves to lose.
Then add the fact that your opponent will get to attack you every time you consolidate into something. Those Berzerkers will get thinned out by their own succes.
Either way, most players aren't dumb enough (possibly unlucky enough though) to let a massive berzeker unit footslog across the board unharmed.

So - it's a possible but unrealistic scenario.
Also, no reason to be snide.

 sfshilo wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
These are shaping up to be pretty damn dull. They are looking fairly similar in a lot of ways to the space marine book but witbout all the other units.

You're right, it's too bad Normal marines do not have Havoc Launchers, Warp Talons, Mutilators, Obliterators, heldrakes, helbrutes, Lord of skulls, cheap fodder infantry, zombies, Beserkers, Daemonic Steeds, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, and an entire line of forgeworld units unique to Chaos Space Marines. /s

Do you guys actually want anything new or do you just like to complain to complain?

Oh look! Somebody ran out to protect GW by pointing out a different point. I wasn't aware Chaos has the same number of datasheets as space marines. Good thing you pointed out the chaos specific stuff for me.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
l
I wonder why they put the tzeentch power in there - in Traitor Legions Iron Warriors wouldn't have been able to be marked - so will players be able to mark them now?

There is precedence in the fluff about IW having the mark of Khorne and being 'Berserkers' so I don't see why others can't have other marks.

 McGibs wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Mazzyx wrote:
If the zerkers didn't kill it after the second set of 20+ attacks you need new dice.

What it is great for is lords, warp talons, and termis.

Your not thinking of all the applications, they can wipe a unit out then you activate them again and they get another 3" of movement to get within an inch of an enemy bash there brains in and still get a post combat phase 3" yet again. Basically just that threat makes berserkers something the opponent HAS to deal with early which is something I have not heard of since the 3.5 days

You can't attack something you didnt charge. The berserkers can consolidate into them, but then the enemy will activate and whack em before leaving in the next turn.
Also, I'm pretty certain you can't activate a unit that isnt "in combat" within 1" of an enemy model. If the berserkers kill everything in their first activation, they don't get any further activations because they're no longer in combat.

But your allow to declare any target within 12 inches for your assault even if you can't get their due to blocking models. So you eat more over watch, but you can easily get to more units once you butcher that screen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Would you spend 2 CP's on giving 2-3 berzerkers a third go in combat? I know I wouldn't most of the time.

Likewise, I doubt I'd spend 2 CP's on giving 9-10 berzerkers a third go either. There are exceptions of course, but alot of things don't really survive 2 waves of attacks from berzerkers in the first place, or become so crippled that it's not worth the 2 CP to finish them of before morale does.

Now, spending 2 CP's on getting my WE Terminators or Warptalons or Possessed strike a second time...that thought warms the heart.

Three pile ins with a possible consolidation into combat makes 9-12 inches of extra movement. You can send one big unit in and tie up most of their army.

Sure you "can", but it's not really that realistic is it?

Hugh? Whats unrealistic about it, I have had berserkers double pile in and condolidate a few times already to tie units up, and even overkill once. I never claimed it was a guarantee, that's not how die games works lol. Attributing realism here is rather daft.

You said "big unit" that can tie up most of the enemy army.
"Big unit" means bigger than 10, so no Rhino.
No Rhino = footslog.
If your opponent let's you footslog over the table with a big berzerker-unit, big enough to let you pretty much consolidate into the majority of their army, your opponent deserves to lose.
Then add the fact that your opponent will get to attack you every time you consolidate into something. Those Berzerkers will get thinned out by their own succes.
Either way, most players aren't dumb enough (possibly unlucky enough though) to let a massive berzeker unit footslog across the board unharmed.

So - it's a possible but unrealistic scenario.
Also, no reason to be snide.

First of all, big unit doesn't mean bigger then 10 lol. Unless there is a section in the rules where they define unit sizes your talking from your ass. Second of all, you can just as easily run 2 10 man units side by side as you can run one 20 man unit, so your point is just goofy anyway. They would have no idea which lot was getting the potential stategem, which is the whole point, hence they have to deal with all of them at once. You could also bluff them an not burn the CP's in the end and just use them as a tar pit.

As to your point about them not making it... that's literally part of my entire previous post. Making them this potentially threatening means they MUST shoot them off the table, which means that unit of warp time terminators that just moved into your flank turn 1 starts really compounding the pressure. Your speaking like someone who hasn't actually played much of 8th yet if I am being honest here.

PS I am not being snide lol I just find it funny when people tell me exactly how things will play out when I can tell they have never run into the scenario yet.

Mazzyx wrote:
Again for all freaking out about stuff not in the codex. From GW on the codex verse index stuff:


There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?
While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Everything that is in the index you can use, just use the new codex points.

So if you're a returning player who just had your collection of expensive books invalidated by the new edition a little over a month ago, you need to fork out for/carry/use not one but two new books to use your existing years legal figures for one army only a month into the new edition. That's a gakky solution for all involved except GW. If they wanted to go that route, they should have made the index books free to download with the release of the new edition (but still offered prints copies for sale) instead of double dipping for figs comprised of 100% GW parts.

 sfshilo wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
These are shaping up to be pretty damn dull. They are looking fairly similar in a lot of ways to the space marine book but witbout all the other units.

You're right, it's too bad Normal marines do not have Havoc Launchers, Warp Talons, Mutilators, Obliterators, heldrakes, helbrutes, Lord of skulls, cheap fodder infantry, zombies, Beserkers, Daemonic Steeds, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, and an entire line of forgeworld units unique to Chaos Space Marines. /s

Do you guys actually want anything new or do you just like to complain to complain?

V Vets do most of what Talons can; Centurions are clearly their Obliterator/Mutilator equivalent and IMHO better now that oblit weapons aren't cool and now they have Aggressors; helbrutes are just renamed dreads; zombies are cheap fodder infantry so that's redundant; FF/MFs are 2 configurations of the same thing; FW unique CSM options consists of 2(?) characters; 3 robots; 3 flyers; and barely modified Marine entries

How about a revised list of:

Havoc Launchers, heldrakes, Lord of skulls, cheap fodder infantry, Beserkers, Daemonic Steeds, x-fiends, and an entire line of under a dozen actually different things.

Havoc launchers seem a bad thing to have in that list, especially with the new onslaught gun poking out of various things and twin assault cannons on razorbacks. d6 Ap 0 shots is just sad.

Though on the helbrute front- they are better (and faster) CC dreads.

Mazzyx wrote:
Again for all freaking out about stuff not in the codex. From GW on the codex verse index stuff:


There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?
While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Everything that is in the index you can use, just use the new codex points.

Just haul around an extra book. Just spend twice as long looking things up. Just use a source that likely won't be permitted at tournaments or "official" events once your faction has a codex.

"Just".

If they seriously intended for this stuff to remain an option, they would have put it in the codex, and if people want to be annoyed at having additional inconvenience imposed on them as part of GW's wierd range-management policies, you don't get to tell them otherwise.

 Red Corsair wrote:
But your allow to declare any target within 12 inches for your assault even if you can't get their due to blocking models. So you eat more over watch, but you can easily get to more units once you butcher that screen.

The real potential seems to be for either berzerking everything in a general area or turning any random unit on the battlefield into a minimum four attack threat per model when ever you want. When you can pop a tactical squad out of a rhino, shoot 20 rapid fire bolter shots, then charge for 40 attacks across two rounds of first priority combat, they're a threat to a whole lot, and those aren't your combat specialists.

 McGibs wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Mazzyx wrote:
If the zerkers didn't kill it after the second set of 20+ attacks you need new dice.

What it is great for is lords, warp talons, and termis.

Your not thinking of all the applications, they can wipe a unit out then you activate them again and they get another 3" of movement to get within an inch of an enemy bash there brains in and still get a post combat phase 3" yet again. Basically just that threat makes berserkers something the opponent HAS to deal with early which is something I have not heard of since the 3.5 days

You can't attack something you didnt charge. The berserkers can consolidate into them, but then the enemy will activate and whack em before leaving in the next turn.
Also, I'm pretty certain you can't activate a unit that isnt "in combat" within 1" of an enemy model. If the berserkers kill everything in their first activation, they don't get any further activations because they're no longer in combat.

You would have to declare a charge against everything you potentially want to fight (and they would all need to be within 12 inches to declare a charge) Also, the fight sequence says you can activate any unit that charged or is within 1 inch of an enemy unit, so I think this will let you continue to activate the berserkers. Though even if you can't fight a unit because you didn't 'charge' them you may still want to consolidate into them so they can't shoot.

Courtesy from DreamIsCollapsing @ B&C who deciphered the french leak.

World Eater Stratagem:
Cancel a psychic power within 24" on a 4+

Emperor's Children Stratagem:
Activates in the combat phase. Each time a model of this squads kills an enemy model, he can immediately make another attack with the same weapon on the same enemy unit.

Night Lord Stratagem:
Activate when a Night Lord unit get's shot: The enemy must add -1 to hit for ranged weapons against that unit in this phase.

Alpha Legion Stratagem:
...It's the same as Raven Guard. Same CT and same Stratagem. *Yawn*

He wasn't 100% sure of the Black Legion and Word Bearer-Stratagems.

Black Legion had something about giving a squad rerolling 1's to hit during a shooting phase or combat phase, and an additional rule for Chaos Space Marine Squads (re-rolling 1's to wound as well?)

Word Bearers got to reroll their dices when summoning Daemons. Something more about doubles and triples that he couldn't decipher.

Thanks MinscS2!

Wait do EC get two stratagems then?

Because they have the shoot twice one on the article. Or do they just have breakdowns based on marks and then legions?

Mazzyx wrote:
Wait do EC get two stratagems then?

Because they have the shoot twice one on the article. Or do they just have breakdowns based on marks and then legions?

The stratagem in the EC preview was for Slaanesh marines, not EC specifically.

I found some time to upload the screenshots I took from the trial Codex on iStore. Unfortunately Imgur has compressed them which hurt the quality a bit. They are better to read than the images from blogs. I have also added other pages than those which have been posted online

http://imgur.com/a/CWdTv

Stabbed in the back. Iron warriors legion tactic back to being garbage (same as imperial fists)

That emperor's children tactic is stratagem can be absolutely amazing vs the right target especially if it lets kills with the bonus attacks generate extra attacks.

Imagine some close combat noise marines with icon and prescience (for an example) vs conscripts.

3 attacks each every 4+ to hit generates an extra attack, with DTFE.

Then every kill from those attacks generates another extra attack which can trigger death to false emperor again (since these bonus attacks aren't from DTFE)

I'll trade you for the trash Word Bearers one.

 ph34r wrote:
Stabbed in the back. Iron warriors legion tactic back to being garbage (same as imperial fists)

Stabbed in the back? really. ohooooh I get it, you're roleplaying. yeah man! GW doesn't appreciate us! Iron within Iron without! sulk sulk sulk

It is time for some EXCESSIVE VIOLENCE BROTHERS!

BrianDavion wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Stabbed in the back. Iron warriors legion tactic back to being garbage (same as imperial fists)

Stabbed in the back? really. ohooooh I get it, you're roleplaying. yeah man! GW doesn't appreciate us! Iron within Iron without! sulk sulk sulk

Don't forget to combo your Iron Warriors Terminators with a Psychic Power That Only Works On Tzeentch Units!

Well likewise the NL trait is pretty bad, I leaks are supposed to be believed:
"Night Lords = -1 from enemy Ld when within 6" and can stack up to the maximum of - 3"
Range is short, you have to be straight at face, it doesn't stack much at all.
Atleast the word I hear among Space Marine players is that MSU is the king, so against MSU + ATSKNF this is not good at all. To get any meaningful stacking you need 2+ kills and then also several units to get the Trait to stack!
Then many other armies totally ignore Morale already in most cases: Astra Militarum and Tyranids, Orcs at some level.

So, my FLGS posted this on their facebook page.

Take it for what it's worth:

"BIG LEAK from my GW Rep! Chaos Space Marines are getting new models for basic Chaos Marines. The core Marine box is no longer in system for GW and this typically means a new kit is imminent! You heard it here first guys!"

I hope it's true!

 docdoom77 wrote:
So, my FLGS posted this on their facebook page.

Take it for what it's worth:

"BIG LEAK from my GW Rep! Chaos Space Marines are getting new models for basic Chaos Marines. The core Marine box is no longer in system for GW and this typically means a new kit is imminent! You heard it here first guys!"

I hope it's true!

PRAISE DOOM for this potentially incredible news

is so this could be a pleasent suprise

This is hard to believe. So they wont show the new miniatures in the Codex? ....

 docdoom77 wrote:
So, my FLGS posted this on their facebook page.

Take it for what it's worth:

"BIG LEAK from my GW Rep! Chaos Space Marines are getting new models for basic Chaos Marines. The core Marine box is no longer in system for GW and this typically means a new kit is imminent! You heard it here first guys!"

I hope it's true!

That is nuts if true.

*grumbles about literally just getting a CSM box on Saturday for some special weapon conversions*

 docdoom77 wrote:
So, my FLGS posted this on their facebook page.

Take it for what it's worth:

"BIG LEAK from my GW Rep! Chaos Space Marines are getting new models for basic Chaos Marines. The core Marine box is no longer in system for GW and this typically means a new kit is imminent! You heard it here first guys!"

Editing time:
typically means a reboxing or sometimes a new kit.

 ph34r wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Stabbed in the back. Iron warriors legion tactic back to being garbage (same as imperial fists)

Stabbed in the back? really. ohooooh I get it, you're roleplaying. yeah man! GW doesn't appreciate us! Iron within Iron without! sulk sulk sulk

Don't forget to combo your Iron Warriors Terminators with a Psychic Power That Only Works On Tzeentch Units!

Can't you just give the squad the mark of tzeentch?