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 MinscS2 wrote:
The WE Stratagem seems wasted on Berzerkers tbh.

Why? You have to also assume that not all Berzerkers make it to melee alive. So if just 2-3 arrive in combat the +1 attack might be more than welcome.

Would you spend 2 CP's on giving 2-3 berzerkers a third go in combat? I know I wouldn't most of the time.

Likewise, I doubt I'd spend 2 CP's on giving 9-10 berzerkers a third go either. There are exceptions of course, but alot of things don't really survive 2 waves of attacks from berzerkers in the first place, or become so crippled that it's not worth the 2 CP to finish them of before morale does.

Now, spending 2 CP's on getting my WE Terminators or Warptalons or Possessed strike a second time...that thought warms the heart.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
My argument isn't that the kits/range is good, it is that those weapons are available in some form so suggesting we are going to lose them is being awfully negative.

I mean what exactly did marines lose weapon wise ?

The only things that I know Marines lost are bikes on some of the heroes who don't come with a bike kit.

Which is even more bizarre to me now that I have the new WD in hand and it contains a big ol' "how to convert a Dreadknight Grand Master" article. I mean there's literally zero difference between "cut up a Grand Master and stick him on in place of the Dreadnight pilot" and "cut up a Librarian and stick him on in place of the bike rider" except the former uses that new GM model.

Losing options because of some daft policy that they won't give your rules for something they don't explicitly produce even if it's just a simple gear swap was galling, but at the very least it was comprehensible and predictable. If they're just going to allow or remove options based on some unfathomable combination of whim and sales tactics it's even worse because we can't ever know what will be removed in any given book.

 MinscS2 wrote:
Would you spend 2 CP's on giving 2-3 berzerkers a third go in combat? I know I wouldn't most of the time.

Likewise, I doubt I'd spend 2 CP's on giving 9-10 berzerkers a third go either. There are exceptions of course, but alot of things don't really survive 2 waves of attacks from berzerkers in the first place, or become so crippled that it's not worth the 2 CP to finish them of before morale does.

Now, spending 2 CP's on getting my WE Terminators or Warptalons or Possessed strike a second time...that thought warms the heart.

You are right and it also depends on the circumstances. If you are just with these 3 Berzerkers in melee and fight a unit which could very well die from the fight, you would probably use it. Anyway, I think it is always good to have +1 A even on Berzerkers. It might not be super usefull very often for them, but it could be sometimes.

If the zerkers didn't kill it after the second set of 20+ attacks you need new dice.

What it is great for is lords, warp talons, and termis.

 warboss wrote:

Slinky wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I'm not familiar with the 8th edition rules. What is the benefit to changing weapons from rapid fire to assault when advancing ala the reported Black Legion benefit above?

You can fire even if you advanced, which normally you cannot.

(Advance is where you roll a D6 in the movement phase and move that many extra inches, it's the replacement for Run in 7th)

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I'm not familiar with the 8th edition rules. What is the benefit to changing weapons from rapid fire to assault when advancing ala the reported Black Legion benefit above?

You can't shoot after advancing when using a rapid fire weapon.
You can shoot after advancing when using an assault weapon, but with a -1 to hit.

Thanks for the clarification. Does the change to assault weapons affect charging after advancing as well? i.e. in previous editions, if you fired rapid fire you couldn't charge.

There is no restriction for firing a weapon and charging. That's gone now. So you can use a rapid fire weapon and charge now. You can even charge with heavy weapons.
You can't charge if you advance, unless otherwise stated.

Again for all freaking out about stuff not in the codex. From GW on the codex verse index stuff:


There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?
While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Everything that is in the index you can use, just use the new codex points.

Iron Warriors stuff posted.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/01/legion-focus-iron-warriors-aug-1gw-homepage-post-2/

The +1 Inv psychic power will prove decently powerful, especially if thousand sons are able to take it. I do believe Magnus would love having a 3+ Rerolling 1s again.

These are shaping up to be pretty damn dull. They are looking fairly similar in a lot of ways to the space marine book but witbout all the other units.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
The +1 Inv psychic power will prove decently powerful, especially if thousand sons are able to take it. I do believe Magnus would love having a 3+ Rerolling 1s again.

Having the Thousand Sons gain back more psychic uumph would be cool. Glad they are getting their own codex, sad for the extra weight but ah well.

The Iron Warriors trait is pretty damn awesome. Kinda lame they went with exactly the same ability as Imperial Fists, but I can't complain about ignoring cover.

After having read the new White Dwarf, I came to the conclusion I was wrong about the Dark Hereticus psychic powers. There are 6 generic spells plus 1 for each god (except Khorne ofc). The CSM card set comes with 10 powers, Smite being the last, as shown in the advert. I will edit the 1st post accordingly.

Two more interestig things in the issue:

- In the letter section they answer a querry for more Slaanesh models with "And perhaps we'll see something soon for Slaanesh... maybe." While it is super vague why should they say this if there isn't anything ahead and why put that letter in WD if the answer to its (only) topic isn't of interest to other readers? They could have taken another letter with a different topic instead, couldn't they?

- The SM and CSM codices show the rift from two perspectives - Chaos though has something called Night Rift on it. WD: "Chaos Space Marines marks the rather alarming presence of something called the Night Rift!"

Meh. The IW stuff seems underwhelming. It saddens me, because I have about 4000pts worth of IW which will now probably "counts as" something with more useful traits. I just don't see people plopping many units down in cover and camping them there, nor does anyone play with Fortifications around here.

Maybe time will change the meta and make this stuff useful.

Warhams-77 wrote:
- In the letter section they answer a querry for more Slaanesh models with "And perhaps we'll see something soon for Slaanesh... maybe." While it is super vague why should they say this if there isn't anything ahead and why put that letter in WD if the answer to its (only) topic isn't of interest to other readers? They could have taken another letter with a different topic instead, couldn't they?

They've been teasing Slaanesh in Age of Sigmar for quite some time now.

The IW traits are not super interesting, as we've seen them already for IF, and it's kinda weird that it sort of overlaps with the noise marine ability, but it's still a solid trait.

Their relic also seems quite good. And the warlord trait is really good for cultist lists. It's also interesting that the strategems so far are not chapter specific, but instead are tied to the chaos marks, meaning the armies with lots of marks have more options than the SM book might.

Mazzyx wrote:
If the zerkers didn't kill it after the second set of 20+ attacks you need new dice.

What it is great for is lords, warp talons, and termis.

Or you're fighting a knight or a land raider. They wound anything on 5s, so...

I'd say IW got by alright.

Their Legion Trait is decent, not bad but not amazing.
Their Warlord Trait is decent as well, especially with alot of cultists.
Their Stratagem is bad, it should've been 5+ and not 6+.
Their Relic is awesome though, especially on a DP.

If I played IW I'd be OK with these rules.

 MinscS2 wrote:
Would you spend 2 CP's on giving 2-3 berzerkers a third go in combat? I know I wouldn't most of the time.

Likewise, I doubt I'd spend 2 CP's on giving 9-10 berzerkers a third go either. There are exceptions of course, but alot of things don't really survive 2 waves of attacks from berzerkers in the first place, or become so crippled that it's not worth the 2 CP to finish them of before morale does.

Now, spending 2 CP's on getting my WE Terminators or Warptalons or Possessed strike a second time...that thought warms the heart.

Three pile ins with a possible consolidation into combat makes 9-12 inches of extra movement. You can send one big unit in and tie up most of their army.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Would you spend 2 CP's on giving 2-3 berzerkers a third go in combat? I know I wouldn't most of the time.

Likewise, I doubt I'd spend 2 CP's on giving 9-10 berzerkers a third go either. There are exceptions of course, but alot of things don't really survive 2 waves of attacks from berzerkers in the first place, or become so crippled that it's not worth the 2 CP to finish them of before morale does.

Now, spending 2 CP's on getting my WE Terminators or Warptalons or Possessed strike a second time...that thought warms the heart.

Three pile ins with a possible consolidation into combat makes 9-12 inches of extra movement. You can send one big unit in and tie up most of their army.

Sure you "can", but it's not really that realistic is it?

The warlord Trait sounds pretty strong - it brings back our old fearless. Actually I get the feeling, after more codizes are released the morale phase will turn out as useless as it has been in prior editions. Many times it does already, it seems Chaos is the only faction that lost fearless, while all the others kept their special morale abilities.

The relic sounds really strong to me.

I wonder why they put the tzeentch power in there - in Traitor Legions Iron Warriors wouldn't have been able to be marked - so will players be able to mark them now?

The legion tactic is what was suspected and rather fitting. And at least better than the 6+ fnp they had before .

Also Cypher and the Fallen are confirmed to be in Codex: CSM by WD on page 147, Vox Chatter

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
My argument isn't that the kits/range is good, it is that those weapons are available in some form so suggesting we are going to lose them is being awfully negative.

I mean what exactly did marines lose weapon wise ?

The only things that I know Marines lost are bikes on some of the heroes who don't come with a bike kit.

Which is even more bizarre to me now that I have the new WD in hand and it contains a big ol' "how to convert a Dreadknight Grand Master" article. I mean there's literally zero difference between "cut up a Grand Master and stick him on in place of the Dreadnight pilot" and "cut up a Librarian and stick him on in place of the bike rider" except the former uses that new GM model.

Losing options because of some daft policy that they won't give your rules for something they don't explicitly produce even if it's just a simple gear swap was galling, but at the very least it was comprehensible and predictable. If they're just going to allow or remove options based on some unfathomable combination of whim and sales tactics it's even worse because we can't ever know what will be removed in any given book.

To quote someone else on here, never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. I am now changing my position to that of GW screwing up royally somewhere and either:

A. Forgot to put certain entries in
Or
B. They were literally at some sort of max for the books size constraints, hadn't planned ahead and were forced tpo make cuts and these were what we got.

 Ghaz wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
- In the letter section they answer a querry for more Slaanesh models with "And perhaps we'll see something soon for Slaanesh... maybe." While it is super vague why should they say this if there isn't anything ahead and why put that letter in WD if the answer to its (only) topic isn't of interest to other readers? They could have taken another letter with a different topic instead, couldn't they?

They've been teasing Slaanesh in Age of Sigmar for quite some time now.

Yes and on Warhammer TV lately

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Would you spend 2 CP's on giving 2-3 berzerkers a third go in combat? I know I wouldn't most of the time.

Likewise, I doubt I'd spend 2 CP's on giving 9-10 berzerkers a third go either. There are exceptions of course, but alot of things don't really survive 2 waves of attacks from berzerkers in the first place, or become so crippled that it's not worth the 2 CP to finish them of before morale does.

Now, spending 2 CP's on getting my WE Terminators or Warptalons or Possessed strike a second time...that thought warms the heart.

Three pile ins with a possible consolidation into combat makes 9-12 inches of extra movement. You can send one big unit in and tie up most of their army.

Sure you "can", but it's not really that realistic is it?

Hugh? Whats unrealistic about it, I have had berserkers double pile in and condolidate a few times already to tie units up, and even overkill once. I never claimed it was a guarantee, that's not how die games works lol. Attributing realism here is rather daft.

 Red Corsair wrote:
To quote someone else on here, never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. I am now changing my position to that of GW screwing up royally somewhere and either:

A. Forgot to put certain entries in
Or
B. They were literally at some sort of max for the books size constraints, hadn't planned ahead and were forced tpo make cuts and these were what we got.

Also possible they have different teams working on different books, and communication between them/editors failed miserably.

Mazzyx wrote:
If the zerkers didn't kill it after the second set of 20+ attacks you need new dice.

What it is great for is lords, warp talons, and termis.

Your not thinking of all the applications, they can wipe a unit out then you activate them again and they get another 3" of movement to get within an inch of an enemy bash there brains in and still get a post combat phase 3" yet again. Basically just that threat makes berserkers something the opponent HAS to deal with early which is something I have not heard of since the 3.5 days

 BrotherGecko wrote:
These are shaping up to be pretty damn dull. They are looking fairly similar in a lot of ways to the space marine book but witbout all the other units.

You're right, it's too bad Normal marines do not have Havoc Launchers, Warp Talons, Mutilators, Obliterators, heldrakes, helbrutes, Lord of skulls, cheap fodder infantry, zombies, Beserkers, Daemonic Steeds, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, and an entire line of forgeworld units unique to Chaos Space Marines. /s

Do you guys actually want anything new or do you just like to complain to complain?

 sfshilo wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
These are shaping up to be pretty damn dull. They are looking fairly similar in a lot of ways to the space marine book but witbout all the other units.

You're right, it's too bad Normal marines do not have Havoc Launchers, Warp Talons, Mutilators, Obliterators, heldrakes, helbrutes, Lord of skulls, cheap fodder infantry, zombies, Beserkers, Daemonic Steeds, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, and an entire line of forgeworld units unique to Chaos Space Marines. /s

Do you guys actually want anything new or do you just like to complain to complain?

I just want new Marine Sculpts

 Cephalobeard wrote:
The +1 Inv psychic power will prove decently powerful, especially if thousand sons are able to take it. I do believe Magnus would love having a 3+ Rerolling 1s again.

Does he have the key word heretic astartes?