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 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Yeah... all that assumes that the HH plastics are CSM units, however, they're not listed as such. While they're obvious conversion fodder, GW's pretty clearly trying to tone down kitbashing for weapon combos.

maybe but at the same time using MK 3 or 4 armor kits for CSMs is such a no brainer I can't imagine GW not supporting the ide. granted I also expected them to supply the rules for cataphracti and Taratos termies to any of the potentially first founding armies. I can understand why they might avoid a contemptor dread, (if Bjorn isn't in a contemptor, for example, space wolves could be argued not to have any) but no reason not to sell the terminator varients to any and all

 Rydria wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
You guys do realize that there are no chosen with flamer kit yet they outright suggested you use flamer chosen in the emperor's children sneak preview ?

In addition you are outright allowed to use the index, for unit entries if you choose to at least that is the case for space marines.

You realise that the Flamer is a basic special weapon in the CSM kit and as I stated things that existed in one kit or another were generally safe?

CSM have -never- not had access to a flamer in their long history. 2nd even had a flamer as one of the two special weapons we actually had in metal.

So your point is?

The way the doomsayers are making it out, you can't use anything that doesn't come with the actual kit itself, such as no lightning claw terminators, even though there are lightning claws are in the terminator lord kit. I'm highly doubtful that GW are going to remove combi-plasma from the armory.

Every weapon is available from a current kit/or was available in dark vengeance.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Power sword (CSM, Raptors, dark vengeance, betrayal at calth)
Power Axe (dark vengeance, vrosh tattersoul, terminator lord, warpsmith, chaos lord metal)
Power Maul (dark vengeance, terminators, dark apostle)
Power fist (Raptors, terminators/Lord, dark vengeance, warsmith, Nightlord hero, betrayal at calth)
Lightning claw (Raptors, Terminator lord, betrayal at calth)
Flamer, Melta, Plasma gun (CSM, Raptors, betrayal at calth)
combi plasma (Betrayal at calth)
combi melta (vrosh tattersoul, Betrayal at calth, terminator lord, warsmith)
combi flamer (terminators, betrayal at calth, Nightlord hero)
Missile launcher (havocs, betrayal at calth)
lascannon and autocannon (havocs)
heavy bolter (CSM, havocs, betrayal at calth)

First of all, we need to do the following....

Take every 30k kit and game and throw them right out of that list. They are not part of the CSM list and thus should not be included, any more than Imperial SM units should be. That's not how GW think - we may be happy to convert and use them but GW don't see them in the bubble.

Second - let's look at the list

Power Swords - already covered as safe, existing in the CSM and Raptor kits. HOWEVER they are not present in the Chaos Terminator kit and that is the unit likely to lose them as such.
Power Axes - already covered as safe.
Power Mauls - Dark Apostle has an Accursed Crozius. I can see that becoming a seperate piece of wargear altogether. Dark Vengeance - oh wow, so our only power armoured power maul is on a single plastic model only available in a boxed game. That's TERRIBLE.
Power Fist - never at risk as has been present since 2nd edition.
Lightning Claws - never at risk.
Flamer, Plasma and Meltaguns - never at risk.
Combi-Plasma - What's that? When you factor in what is available in the CSM range only this isn't available to ANYTHING? Oh my.
Combi-Melta - so our only power armoured combi meltas are on a metal model and the backpack of a clampack model. TERRIBLE.
Combi-Flamer - Again, only on a single power armoured model. TERRIBLE.


Actually...you've made a REALLY good argument for exactly why the CSM range needs an overhaul.

Did you know we can't even make a 5 man 'standard' armed Terminator squad from the kit? There's just not enough power mauls/axes or twin-bolters for it. You HAVE to dip into the fists and combi-weapons....

My argument isn't that the kits/range is good, it is that those weapons are available in some form so suggesting we are going to lose them is being awfully negative.

I mean what exactly did marines lose weapon wise ?

Edit: I've never bought a chaos terminator kit because they are inferior aesthetically to the terminator lord kit, which is what I used to build my terminators. How many maul's/axes do you get keep in mind that when the kit was made the tentacle arm was a generic power weapon.

Edit: Edit: Only 4 power weapons (one of which no longer has rules) that is indeed really bad, and only 3 combi bolters, and 1 each of the melta and flamer.

 Rydria wrote:
My argument isn't that the kits/range is good, it is that those weapons are available in some form so suggesting we are going to lose them is being awfully negative.

I mean what exactly did marines lose weapon wise ?

The only things that I know Marines lost are bikes on some of the heroes who don't come with a bike kit.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
My argument isn't that the kits/range is good, it is that those weapons are available in some form so suggesting we are going to lose them is being awfully negative.

I mean what exactly did marines lose weapon wise ?

The only things that I know Marines lost are bikes on some of the heroes who don't come with a bike kit.

These are the only things I know about that no longer have rules along with the limited edition imperial space marine and the terminus ultra (never in the codex an apocalypse only unit)

Didn't the Dreadnought also lose the Autocannon option?

So how exactly does the EC legion trait work - 2 enemy units charge; One of his guys fight, then one of mine - or 2 enemy units charge, they both fight, then I fight?

Because if it's the latter there might as well not be the trait.

Debilitate wrote:
So how exactly does the EC legion trait work - 2 enemy units charge; One of his guys fight, then one of mine - or 2 enemy units charge, they both fight, then I fight?

Because if it's the latter there might as well not be the trait.

Didn't it say that if the enemy charges, the enemy and EC player alternate, beginning with the person who charged? What I got from it was that EC units go at the initiative of a charging unit, so they go "at the same time" as enemy charging units. I could be wrong though

Debilitate wrote:
So how exactly does the EC legion trait work - 2 enemy units charge; One of his guys fight, then one of mine - or 2 enemy units charge, they both fight, then I fight?

Because if it's the latter there might as well not be the trait.

You get charged by 3 units you have 2 units of emperor's children this happens
enemy unit piles in and attacks (charger)
emperor's children unit piles in and attacks
enemy unit piles in and attacks (charger)
emperor's children unit piles in and attacks
enemy unit piles in and attacks (charger)

Then next turn this happens since the enemy units are no longer charging the emperor's children get to hit first with all there units before the opponent even gets to attack once
emperor's children unit piles in and attacks
emperor's children unit piles in and attacks
enemy unit piles in and attacks
enemy unit piles in and attacks
enemy unit piles in and attacks

It can also be used to cheese counter offence by choosing to have a none charging unit of yours hit before a charging unit
emperor's children unit piles in and attacks (Opponent can't use counter offence to go before the unit that charged because this unit hasn't charged)
emperor's children unit piles in and attacks (charged) (opponent can counter charge after this unit but it is too late to be useful as you have no more combats after this)
enemy unit piles in and attacks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: anyone else noticed that endless cacophony isn't the emperor's children's stategem but a generic one that any legion except world eaters can use due to the slaanesh requirement ?

That makes sense.

Whilst Emperor's Children = Noise Marines, Noise Marines =/= Emperor's Children. There can be Noise Marines in other Legions (except the Marked Legions, obviously).

 Rydria wrote:
My argument isn't that the kits/range is good, it is that those weapons are available in some form so suggesting we are going to lose them is being awfully negative.

Not in the slightest. It's reacting to what GW is doing with kits. We're seeing things lose options previously available to them because GW don't make that exact kit.

There are Deathwatch characters who can't take a bevvy of options in (essentially arbitrary) combinations despite being easy conversions simply because GW don't make those specific Deathwatch kits. Marines lost a lot of bike characters.

It's very easy to assume that Chaos Terminators could lose Power Swords and Combi-Plasmas because the kit has none. Saying "But you can get them elsewhere!" means nothing. They're not in the Terminator kit, so there's a reasonable chance they'll be removed.

GW even draws their artwork to match the kits these days. You don't think the rules are following suit?

It started even before 8th. Genestealer Cult on release could only have half the Russ variants and no melta/plasma special weapons as they don't come on the sprues.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That makes sense.

Whilst Emperor's Children = Noise Marines, Noise Marines =/= Emperor's Children. There can be Noise Marines in other Legions (except the Marked Legions, obviously).

 Rydria wrote:
My argument isn't that the kits/range is good, it is that those weapons are available in some form so suggesting we are going to lose them is being awfully negative.

Not in the slightest. It's reacting to what GW is doing with kits. We're seeing things lose options previously available to them because GW don't make that exact kit.

There are Deathwatch characters who can't take a bevvy of options in (essentially arbitrary) combinations despite being easy conversions simply because GW don't make those specific Deathwatch kits. Marines lost a lot of bike characters.

It's very easy to assume that Chaos Terminators could lose Power Swords and Combi-Plasmas because the kit has none. Saying "But you can get them elsewhere!" means nothing. They're not in the Terminator kit, so there's a reasonable chance they'll be removed.

GW even draws their artwork to match the kits these days. You don't think the rules are following suit?

yeeeeet my Aspiring sorcerers still have options for force swords/axes, despite them not being in the box, and no force axes existing in any chaos form in plastic/ resin that I am aware off? I just think that GW doesn't know what it wants to do with its range.

Neronoxx wrote:
yeeeeet my Aspiring sorcerers still have options for force swords/axes...

Your Aspiring Sorcerers don't have a Codex yet.

I have no idea how far this policy looks back in time, but there was something.

Thats a mid/late 90s sculpt I would guess.

Never mind, already posted so redacted lol sorry

War of Sigmar

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2289

Hello everyone !!

It seem that our reading of the chaos trait on our WD were not accurate.

Ben from grim resolve channel ! : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXXhl19Xr2S1v2691Qq4kBw have a different reading !!


1. Alpha Legion = -1 to hit rolls when they are more than 12" away.

2. World Eaters = Extra attack when they make a successful charge.

3. Iron Warriors = Ignore cover when shooting and (I think, I can't be 100%) re-roll saves when themselves are in cover.

4. Black Legion = +1 Ld and Rapid fire weapons count as Assault weapons if the unit advanced.

5. Emperors Children = Attack first in combat just like Slannesh daemons

6. Renegades chapters = Advance and charge

7. Word Bearers = Re-roll failed morale

8. Night Lords = -1 from enemy Ld when within 6" and can stack up to the maximum of - 3 (you could probs use the Raptors ability on top and make it drop an extra -1 too)

World Eaters have a Stratagem that allows them to fight again in the fight phase (so that would be a 3rd time for berzerkers)
As a bonus we can see a Grey knight chaplain in terminator armor (the super rare store exclusive) maybe they plan to re-release him.

@Thx ben from grim resolve !!!

/cheers.
bob.

Codex pics (french)

Neronoxx wrote:



yeeeeet my Aspiring sorcerers still have options for force swords/axes, despite them not being in the box, and no force axes existing in any chaos form in plastic/ resin that I am aware off? I just think that GW doesn't know what it wants to do with its range.

My primary disclaimer was that the options being removed have no current model and no history of ever really being available.

Sorcerers with Force Swords and Axes? Those were the default Chaos Sorcerer models from 2nd ed all the way until 6th edition - Here.

To go one step further, the original Aspiring Sorcerer for Thousand Sons was actually a resculpt of one of these and armed with a Force Sword - this is the kit that was ONLY replaced in December so most existing Thousand Sons players had a number of these - Here.

Nice try but no cigar.

I'm not familiar with the 8th edition rules. What is the benefit to changing weapons from rapid fire to assault when advancing ala the reported Black Legion benefit above?

 warboss wrote:
I'm not familiar with the 8th edition rules. What is the benefit to changing weapons from rapid fire to assault when advancing ala the reported Black Legion benefit above?

You can fire even if you advanced, which normally you cannot.

(Advance is where you roll a D6 in the movement phase and move that many extra inches, it's the replacement for Run in 7th)

 warboss wrote:
I'm not familiar with the 8th edition rules. What is the benefit to changing weapons from rapid fire to assault when advancing ala the reported Black Legion benefit above?

You can't shoot after advancing when using a rapid fire weapon.
You can shoot after advancing when using an assault weapon, but with a -1 to hit.

 warboss wrote:
I'm not familiar with the 8th edition rules. What is the benefit to changing weapons from rapid fire to assault when advancing ala the reported Black Legion benefit above?

When advancing you can't shoot Rapid Fire weapons, but can shoot Assault weapons.

EDIT: What they said

Warhams-77 wrote:
War of Sigmar

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2289

Hello everyone !!

It seem that our reading of the chaos trait on our WD were not accurate.

Ben from grim resolve channel ! : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXXhl19Xr2S1v2691Qq4kBw have a different reading !!


1. Alpha Legion = -1 to hit rolls when they are more than 12" away.

2. World Eaters = Extra attack when they make a successful charge.

3. Iron Warriors = Ignore cover when shooting and (I think, I can't be 100%) re-roll saves when themselves are in cover.

4. Black Legion = +1 Ld and Rapid fire weapons count as Assault weapons if the unit advanced.

5. Emperors Children = Attack first in combat just like Slannesh daemons

6. Renegades chapters = Advance and charge

7. Word Bearers = Re-roll failed morale

8. Night Lords = -1 from enemy Ld when within 6" and can stack up to the maximum of - 3 (you could probs use the Raptors ability on top and make it drop an extra -1 too)

World Eaters have a Stratagem that allows them to fight again in the fight phase (so that would be a 3rd time for berzerkers)
As a bonus we can see a Grey knight chaplain in terminator armor (the super rare store exclusive) maybe they plan to re-release him.

@Thx ben from grim resolve !!!

/cheers.
bob.

Codex pics (french)

Spoiler:

So all of these are the same as loyalists or just worse? Seems about right, cause well you know, CHAOS!

 warboss wrote:
I'm not familiar with the 8th edition rules. What is the benefit to changing weapons from rapid fire to assault when advancing ala the reported Black Legion benefit above?

Assault weapons can be used after the additional D6 advance move with a -1 to hit modifier. Rapid fire weapons cannot be shot at all after advancing. However, Rapid fire weapons double their shooting value at half range. Both with the same weapon would be awesome. Especially for Plasma Guns.

Iron Warriors = Ignore cover when shooting and (I think, I can't be 100%) re-roll saves when themselves are in cover.

Pretty sure this is false, at least the last bit.

+1 to cover perhaps (and that would make them much better than IF already), but re-rolling saves when they are in cover is outright broken.
You could easily end up with an army where the majority/all of the models have a 2+ re-rollabe save.

str00dles1 wrote:So all of these are the same as loyalists or just worse? Seems about right, cause well you know, CHAOS!

Drop the Hyperbole please. Posts like this are extremely tiresome.

How can all of these be the "same or worse" as loyalists when some of them are entirely different, and quite strong?

Yes, Alpha Legion = Raven Guard, and Iron Warriors = Imperial Fists.

But the rest are nothing like the SM CT's.

Loyalists have nothing similar to World Eaters, and +1 A o the charge is quite good in 8th. As a WE-player I'm happy.

Black Legion seems like a different (not saying worse) version of Ultramarines. Both get +1 Ld, and while UM can fall back and shoot with a -1 penalty, BL can advance and shoot rapid fire weapons with a -1 penalty.

Emperors Children is also unique from loyalists, and is really good for close combat units.

Renegade Chapters seems strange, I'd expect something different, but advance+charge is by no means bad.

Word Bearers got the short end of the stick, no doubt about it. They essentially got ATSKNF, which is both lame and underwhelming.

Night Lords is...interesting. Will see how it pans out, but it's essentially 1-3 extra casualties from morale if you're close. Not great but not bad either.

So out of 8 Legion Tactics, 2 are the same as loyalists, and 1, possibly 2 are quite weak. 4 are however good, and play nothing like any of the CT's.
Hardly what I'd call "all are same or just worse".

Yeah that would be strictly better than the Imperial Fist one.

Slinky wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I'm not familiar with the 8th edition rules. What is the benefit to changing weapons from rapid fire to assault when advancing ala the reported Black Legion benefit above?

You can fire even if you advanced, which normally you cannot.

(Advance is where you roll a D6 in the movement phase and move that many extra inches, it's the replacement for Run in 7th)

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I'm not familiar with the 8th edition rules. What is the benefit to changing weapons from rapid fire to assault when advancing ala the reported Black Legion benefit above?

You can't shoot after advancing when using a rapid fire weapon.
You can shoot after advancing when using an assault weapon, but with a -1 to hit.

Thanks for the clarification. Does the change to assault weapons affect charging after advancing as well? i.e. in previous editions, if you fired rapid fire you couldn't charge.

Ok cool - at least CSM is getting a full Dark Hereticus discipline. I thought it was just going to be 3 plus the 3 for each god (imagining that DG and TS would get the full version of theirs).

If that is the world eaters trait berserkers are even more stupid since that is an extra 2/3 attacks per guy on the charge.

The WE Stratagem seems wasted on Berzerkers tbh.