Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

One thing to bear in mind (pricing aside), is that boardgamers don't *want* lots of terrain and model they have to put together. The fact that BSF models were on sprues was listed as a negative in a few reviewes of the game I checked out. Packing the game with 100+ models only makes sense for wargamers.

I'd guess, purely guess, it'll be around £150 RRP. GW's been doing better than ever despite price hikes and this is a very hyped up release. Catacombs was £125 and this presumably has a fair bit more to it, outside terrain and will be a more popular release, plus GW might bank on the solo/cooperative nature of it helping sell it when lockdowns are still going on.

I wouldn’t think they’d go more than a £15 increase on BSF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They want it to appeal to the same people. Not just us “in the hobby”

Let's not pretend a box with 50 miniatures on sprue is for anyone not in the hobby.

A lot of people "in the hobby" do not touch the game the miniature come from, because they're too lazy to learn the rule, or too lazy to learn a new set of rule other than their 40k/aos game (which is in its current state : an oversimplified game)

Don't worry fam, GW to the rescue, rules are so simple now we don't even need number on dice, roll dice, see blank = miss, see symbol= hit. WOW! game's so simple now you can even teach illiterate people to play

Danny76 wrote:
I wouldn’t think they’d go more than a £15 increase on BSF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They want it to appeal to the same people. Not just us “in the hobby”

Yeah, people shouldn't use outliers and unrelated things to assume future trends. Sure Dark Uprising and Catacombs both cost a lot of money, but they represent less than 1% of the SKUs GW has put out in the last two years. Plus they aren't analogous product releases to Warhammer Quest. So why cherry pick them? I think people's brains latch onto the most extreme examples ("this product cost $300!" "this product sold out within 1 minute of pre-order release!") and so then use them when predicting the future, such that it begins to feel like every time GW has a new product coming out with too little info, people claim it will cost double expected price and sell out within 10 seconds to never be seen again, even though this has been true of less than 1% of releases.

Also remember why GW brought back these games after Tom Kirby got sacked... so they could sell them to the wide market of veteran tabletop gamers who aren't going to buy a 40K or fantasy army. They weren't getting any of that money under the foolish, sales-illiterate assumption that they would just be competing with themselves since all gamers spent all their money with them anyway, NAY, a smaller game would just give consumers the excuse to buy less and hoard their money for things like medicine and retirement. It's really staggering how long it took to fire Kirby.

Of course this game is going to cost in-line with other Warhammer Quest releases, and of course they're going to print enough copies for everybody. Actually, my just now made up rumor is that those skeletons we saw are going to be a new AoS unit (much like Shadows Over Hammerhal did with existing units, but now not-existing-units), and by buying this game you're going to get a tiny undead army. Because that's really the goal, string along people who aren't buying 40K armies like it's going out of style, and maybe get them to purchase a few extras, or even get into an army scale game.

Chopstick wrote:
A lot of people "in the hobby" do not touch the game the miniature come from, because they're too lazy to learn the rule, or too lazy to learn a new set of rule other than their 40k/aos game (which is in its current state : an oversimplified game)

Don't worry fam, GW to the rescue, rules are so simple now we don't even need number on dice, roll dice, see blank = miss, see symbol= hit. WOW! game's so simple now you can even teach illiterate people to play

or young children, or those wanting play a few rounds of a quick game, or those being introduced to gaming.

Not everyone wants complicated rules or to build models and even if they do - sometimes they enjoy the difference play style.

 frankelee wrote:

Yeah, people shouldn't use outliers and unrelated things to assume future trends. Sure Dark Uprising and Catacombs both cost a lot of money, but they represent less than 1% of the SKUs GW has put out in the last two years.

And every SKU GW put out in the past two years cost more than previous comparable product.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 frankelee wrote:

Yeah, people shouldn't use outliers and unrelated things to assume future trends. Sure Dark Uprising and Catacombs both cost a lot of money, but they represent less than 1% of the SKUs GW has put out in the last two years.

And every SKU GW put out in the past two years cost more than previous comparable product.

Which is why I wouldn't demand the arrest and trial of anyone who suggested this game might cost $160. Because that would be a claim that made sense, was backed up by evidence, and followed actual pre-established patterns of behavior.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 frankelee wrote:

Yeah, people shouldn't use outliers and unrelated things to assume future trends. Sure Dark Uprising and Catacombs both cost a lot of money, but they represent less than 1% of the SKUs GW has put out in the last two years.

And every SKU GW put out in the past two years cost more than previous comparable product.

Yeah but for a product to literally double in price between iterations is unheard of. If the new box is $200 I will be unhappy but not entirely surprised. More than that would be very surprising. Indomitus had a 30% price increase compared to dark Imperium which is pretty substantial but it also had 20% more models.

Based on that, the only way I see this box costing $300 is if it has 80 or so minis or a bunch of plastic terrain.

It could also have a big roleplay book like the original game. That would tempt a lot of the older fans.

Hey I'm saying it'll be super expensive. I'm not saying it won't be packed with so much stuff a lot of people will feel it's worth it.

If they raise the price at least make each heroes their own sprues like in silver tower. The problem with GW and price hike is that they cut cost, shoving everyone into a tiny sprue, but still increase price.

Can't say that bothers me particularly. The modern trend of having to glue together, for example, two halves of a bloody *shoulder pad* as part of assembly but having the torso and legs be moulded together so you can't repose them easily etc, that is a problem to me

Billicus wrote:
The modern trend of having to glue together, for example, two halves of a bloody *shoulder pad* as part of assembly but having the torso and legs be moulded together so you can't repose them easily etc, that is a problem to me

I'm OK with that. We end up with much more dynamic poses, and much more amazing detail, than would be possible with the more old-fashioned approach of separate arms etc. Admittedly the latter makes conversions easier. But GW will generally use the former for characters and easy-to-build kits and the latter for the more standard box set, so you end up with a mixture in a bigger army anyway.

I thought that, but have you built any modern GW troops - they can really only be built one way now just like the characters. It's fine if you want one squad that, while "dynamic" (read: jumping off rocks), are identical to all your other squads and everyone else's squads. I don't want that. It's horrible for building armies.

I'd also like to add, that aside from the lack of pose options and monopose sculpts, the gap filling needed has only increased due to where the minis join for assembly.

With the old metal models or finecast I'd say sure, but these days you would think they would get that right considering what the cost will be of this set. If I can buy a scale model kit with minimal gap filling these days for a reasonable price, GW should be following suit.

Chopstick wrote:
If they raise the price at least make each heroes their own sprues like in silver tower. The problem with GW and price hike is that they cut cost, shoving everyone into a tiny sprue, but still increase price.

It'll be interesting to see what they do with that, as I think all the heroes on individual sprues would be a pretty good indicator they will be following up with some kind of a wider AoS release. Which in terms of the the witch hunter could have very big implications...

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Let's not pretend a box with 50 miniatures on sprue is for anyone not in the hobby.

They're partly for people "not yet" in the hobby.

The hobby boardgame market is huge, WH:Q and Underworlds are both purposefully aimed at that sector. If you look at when BSF and the other quest games came out on YouTube, you'll see reviews on there from people who don't do any wargaming stuff. A lot of that is because GW sent them the game to review. The models are push fit and you just need clippers or a craft knife to get them out the sprue, push them together and you can start playing. Anathema to you or I, but sort of the point, people start playing and go "these look really amazing painted on the box", look up tutorials online (helpfully provided by GW, using GW paints) and they start buying in.

Likewise I've seen hobby games shops that don't do wargaming (just board games and Magic) that have stocked the WH:Q range.

It's still a *lot* of work for a boardgame. Not to mention GW pushfits are more like push"fits"...

I will say, GWs gotten a lot better about making the model sprues easier for newbs over the last few years. Underworlds models come together very quickly, Silver Tower models were more like putting together their regular units.

I think there's a big range of people in the overall tabletop hobby, and also within the miniature gamer hobby, and we tend to forget this and view it as this binary thing. I think most customers of this game will be people who bought a GW product before, but it lets them sell to people who aren't making 40K or AoS their lifestyle game (in addition to those who have). And then it also allows them to potentially get a swathe of gamers who have different levels of experience (from total beginner, to long-time veteran who just never bothered with GW). One can imagine plenty of gamers who enjoyed Gloomhaven, and know GW is a luxury option with prices to match, seeing the hype around Cursed City and picking it up to try.

Of course that scenario does fit more with not including terrain and not pricing it too high.

Cronch wrote:
It's still a *lot* of work for a boardgame. Not to mention GW pushfits are more like push"fits"...

It is. But its a fairly successful model for boardgames that intersects only lightly with RPGs and miniature wargames.

Is it? Most boardgames I can think of come with pre-assembled models if they have any at all. And they rarely come with ~50 models to boot. Something with that many models is aimed at wargamers that want to play something less involved, not boardgamers imo.

Most boardgames come with absolutely no models at all. 95% of boardgamers don't get any more fancy than your average Monopoly metal meeple or Ticket to Ride plastic trains.

But of the tiny minority even within the niche of boardgames, there is some room for cross over with miniatures/rpg hobbies and a sliding gradiant of games that cater to them, from simple single-piece Zombicide stuff over semi-complex GW push-fits to the ultra-fiddly Kingdom Death-style stuff where you have to glue on 53 different 2 millimeter "fingers" to a single model at impossible angles.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Most boardgames come with absolutely no models at all. 95% of boardgamers don't get any more fancy than your average Monopoly metal meeple or Ticket to Ride plastic trains.

But of the tiny minority even within the niche of boardgames, there is some room for cross over with miniatures/rpg hobbies and a sliding gradiant of games that cater to them, from simple single-piece Zombicide stuff over semi-complex GW push-fits to the ultra-fiddly Kingdom Death-style stuff where you have to glue on 53 different 2 millimeter "fingers" to a single model at impossible angles.

Monopoly doesn’t use Meeples does it? Or not the last time I saw it. Just the dog and shoe and all that rubbish.

But yeah, most board games are not miniature heavy, if at all.

I guess if you take the subsection of board games where you have a single playing piece that you move representing you it goes up.
But Betrayal and stuff like that are just cardboard standees.

Cronch wrote:
One thing to bear in mind (pricing aside), is that boardgamers don't *want* lots of terrain and model they have to put together. The fact that BSF models were on sprues was listed as a negative in a few reviewes of the game I checked out. Packing the game with 100+ models only makes sense for wargamers.

I remember when Shadows of Brimstone came out on kickstarter and a lot of the backers were so unhappy at getting miniatures to assemble they had to put videos in the kickstarter page if how to assemble them! Even had people complaining on the YouTube assembly videos!

Which makes sense, if you're into boardgaming and not scale/game modelling, it just feels like the company made you put together the contents of the game. Functionally no different than getting a box with crayons and cardboard and manual on how to draw your own tokens.

Bubbatron wrote:

Cronch wrote:
One thing to bear in mind (pricing aside), is that boardgamers don't *want* lots of terrain and model they have to put together. The fact that BSF models were on sprues was listed as a negative in a few reviewes of the game I checked out. Packing the game with 100+ models only makes sense for wargamers.

I remember when Shadows of Brimstone came out on kickstarter and a lot of the backers were so unhappy at getting miniatures to assemble they had to put videos in the kickstarter page if how to assemble them! Even had people complaining on the YouTube assembly videos!

I can sympathize, especially since people outside the hobby are probably unaware that models come unpainted and unassembled, without clippers, paint, glue, and basing materials. Heck, I bet there are plenty of people who have purchased a GW product without realizing what they were getting. What were the miniatures like in Shadows of Brimstone? Where they like a full multipart kit, with a ton of random bits and stuff? The one good thing about Quest (I assume) is that the models are all easy to build, and the heroes and villains will probably be different colored plastics. Sure, they won't look as nice unpainted, but for casual/Non-GW players, all you ultimately need is clippers and glue.

Billicus wrote:
I thought that, but have you built any modern GW troops - they can really only be built one way now just like the characters. It's fine if you want one squad that, while "dynamic" (read: jumping off rocks), are identical to all your other squads and everyone else's squads. I don't want that. It's horrible for building armies.

So true. We are back in 1997 but with plastic models to cut up and convert because it is easier to change these poses by building the models and then cutting them up like we did with metals.

My guess is 170 euros.

I don't think they'd actually stated in the original Brimstone kickstarter it would be in hard plastic, but there was certainly a lot of moaning and gnashing of teeth.

Most figures were anywhere from two to five pieces, with a few being single piece across both original starter boxes. No real pose options either. Parts were quite simple to glue together as well, if you'd had any experience putting figures together.

Some of the Brimstone expansions started offering up multipart optional kits- the ninja clan immediately spring to mind, as well as the drones for the flesh harvesters. The nomad guys from the blasted wastes had optional weapon loadouts I believe as well.

Perhaps I should finish up my minecart five years later? I still probably won't be done building and painting content from it before the new Quest drops...

Yeah boardgamers don't mind their 1 piece miniatures look like gingerbread man with detail all messed up and bent weapons.