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Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Argive wrote:

If you were advanced to be sending out scout ships/probes to get data and explore the universe. It makes sense you wouldn't be sending your best and brightest on these potentially dangerous trips on the front lines..


Which is why every astronaut has been an idiot.

Oh wait, it's the exact opposite.

Here's the NASA Astronaut requirements: https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/postsecondary/features/F_Astronaut_Requirements.html

Astronaut requirements have changed with NASA's goals and missions. Today, to be considered for an astronaut position, applicants must meet the following qualifications:

Be a U.S. citizen
Possess a master's degree* in a STEM field, including engineering, biological science, physical science, computer science or mathematics, from an accredited institution.
Have at least two years of related professional experience obtained after degree completion or at least 1,000 hours pilot-in-command time on jet aircraft.
Be able to pass the NASA long-duration flight astronaut physical.

*The master's degree requirement can also be met by:
Two years (36 semester hours or 54 quarter hours) of work toward a doctoral program in a related science, technology, engineering or math field.
A completed Doctor of Medicine or Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree.
Completion (or current enrollment that will result in completion by June 2021) of a nationally recognized test pilot school program.
Astronaut candidates must also have skills in leadership, teamwork and communications.

NASA’s Astronaut Selection Board reviews the applications (a record-breaking 18,300 applications in 2016) and assesses each candidate’s qualifications. The board then invites a small group of the most highly qualified candidates for interviews at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. Of those interviewed, about half are invited back for second interviews. From that group, NASA’s new astronaut candidates are selected. They report for training at Johnson and spend the next two years learning basic astronaut skills like spacewalking, operating the space station, flying T-38 jet planes and controlling a robotic arm.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/20 23:40:49


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Argive wrote:

If you were advanced to be sending out scout ships/probes to get data and explore the universe. It makes sense you wouldn't be sending your best and brightest on these potentially dangerous trips on the front lines..


Which is why every astronaut has been an idiot.

Oh wait, it's the exact opposite.


The first "astronaut" was a chimp though..
Blasted into space and experimented on how he would handle space travel and if it could perform rudimentary task such as pressing buttons long before a human sat in a cockpit.
Before the chimp was a long line of cats. dogs (RIP Laika) and even frogs.

Ohh wait.. its almost like you totaly missed the point I was trying to make.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/20 23:40:08


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Argive wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Argive wrote:

If you were advanced to be sending out scout ships/probes to get data and explore the universe. It makes sense you wouldn't be sending your best and brightest on these potentially dangerous trips on the front lines..


Which is why every astronaut has been an idiot.

Oh wait, it's the exact opposite.


The first "astronaut" was a chimp though..
Blasted into space and experimented on how he would handle space travel and if it could perform rudimentary task such as pressing buttons long before a human sat in a cockpit.
Before the chimp was a long line of cats. dogs (RIP Laika) and even frogs.

Ohh wait.. its almost like you totaly missed the point I was trying to make.



Because it doesn't make sense. If they were still in the stage of sending animals up then they would not have the capability of interstellar travel. Data collection is much easier to do with a computer, especially as a species with interstellar travel capabilities would also likely have advanced AI at their disposal. If they wanted to test how interstellar travel affected physiology then it would be a pre-programmed route which did not in any way involve interacting with any planet.

And there is zero reason to make a robot in the shape of a grey. Why limit its number of limbs like that? Why not incorporate more tools and equipment into it? What is the point of giving it legs when it is going to be operating in a zero-g environment and wheels or tracks are easier for situations where mobility across the ground is necessary? And why have it be separate from the space craft anyway? Just incorporate all the sensors into the vessel and have it controlled by an AI.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/20 23:53:11


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Spoiler:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Argive wrote:

If you were advanced to be sending out scout ships/probes to get data and explore the universe. It makes sense you wouldn't be sending your best and brightest on these potentially dangerous trips on the front lines..


Which is why every astronaut has been an idiot.

Oh wait, it's the exact opposite.

Here's the NASA Astronaut requirements: https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/postsecondary/features/F_Astronaut_Requirements.html

Astronaut requirements have changed with NASA's goals and missions. Today, to be considered for an astronaut position, applicants must meet the following qualifications:

Be a U.S. citizen
Possess a master's degree* in a STEM field, including engineering, biological science, physical science, computer science or mathematics, from an accredited institution.
Have at least two years of related professional experience obtained after degree completion or at least 1,000 hours pilot-in-command time on jet aircraft.
Be able to pass the NASA long-duration flight astronaut physical.

*The master's degree requirement can also be met by:
Two years (36 semester hours or 54 quarter hours) of work toward a doctoral program in a related science, technology, engineering or math field.
A completed Doctor of Medicine or Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree.
Completion (or current enrollment that will result in completion by June 2021) of a nationally recognized test pilot school program.
Astronaut candidates must also have skills in leadership, teamwork and communications.

NASA’s Astronaut Selection Board reviews the applications (a record-breaking 18,300 applications in 2016) and assesses each candidate’s qualifications. The board then invites a small group of the most highly qualified candidates for interviews at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. Of those interviewed, about half are invited back for second interviews. From that group, NASA’s new astronaut candidates are selected. They report for training at Johnson and spend the next two years learning basic astronaut skills like spacewalking, operating the space station, flying T-38 jet planes and controlling a robotic arm.


I'm not disparaging the quality of our brave astronauts.
But would we be sending these people in a potentially one way trip though to a planet inhabited by maniacal humanoids as likely to chop each other up as to co-operate?

But, I certainly wouldn't want them put on some long range one way scout mission, or some potentially dangerous missions if we had the technology to send a robot/human substitute.
Only once the technology is so secure and perfected we'd actually go ourselves. Stands to reason I think?

We've already lost plenty astronauts in rockets going boom.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Argive wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Argive wrote:

If you were advanced to be sending out scout ships/probes to get data and explore the universe. It makes sense you wouldn't be sending your best and brightest on these potentially dangerous trips on the front lines..


Which is why every astronaut has been an idiot.

Oh wait, it's the exact opposite.


The first "astronaut" was a chimp though..
Blasted into space and experimented on how he would handle space travel and if it could perform rudimentary task such as pressing buttons long before a human sat in a cockpit.
Before the chimp was a long line of cats. dogs (RIP Laika) and even frogs.

Ohh wait.. its almost like you totaly missed the point I was trying to make.



Because it doesn't make sense. If they were still in the stage of sending animals up then they would not have the capability of interstellar travel. Data collection is much easier to do with a computer, especially as a species with interstellar travel capabilities would also likely have advanced AI at their disposal. If they wanted to test how interstellar travel affected physiology then it would be a pre-programmed route which did not in any way involve interacting with any planet.

And there is zero reason to make a robot in the shape of a grey. Why limit its number of limbs like that? Why not incorporate more tools and equipment into it? What is the point of giving it legs when it is going to be operating in a zero-g environment and wheels or tracks are easier for situations where mobility across the ground is necessary?


Yeah exactly. It's the main thing I dislike about the idea. On face value I think it kind of makes sense, But, If you're going to send a robot to do a "humans" job, doing a form of bipedal little grey man seems hardly efficient and doesn't add up to me.

Unless its supposed to be some sort of simulacrum and experimentation, or some way to interface and remotely control the thing..
This is certainly as tinfoil an explanation as any other though..

None of the UFO stuff ever seems to truly add up from the human perspective.

Wouldn't it be weird if the super advanced aliens have some ridiculous fatal flaw, which our human logic just cant comprehend as it could not be possible or compatible with their technologic advancements?
Like maybe its some sort tradition, law, cultural, religious or "other" reason as to why to send little grey humanoid shaped robots. These certainly makes no sense to a human. Maybe that's the best they got in terms of AI robotics? Who knows.

But for sure, ultimately It certainly doesn't make sense. It would be nice to get an answer some day.
But none of the UFO stuff makes sense. Ever lol.

I just don't think there exists anything in the universe that would be truly infallible.
Because that would be getting in the realm of gods.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 00:05:45


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

If they were still in the stage of sending animals up then they would not have the capability of interstellar travel.


What if they're in the early stages of interstellar travel, but have reached a point where they want to see if sending living organisms is viable?

It's a weird leap to think interstellar travel would just arrive as a complete and reliable technology. Look at our own efforts just to make commercial orbital travel practical.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Azreal13 wrote:
If they were still in the stage of sending animals up then they would not have the capability of interstellar travel.


What if they're in the early stages of interstellar travel, but have reached a point where they want to see if sending living organisms is viable?

It's a weird leap to think interstellar travel would just arrive as a complete and reliable technology. Look at our own efforts just to make commercial orbital travel practical.


Such missions would be a series of controlled flights out into interstellar space and back to their own solar system, going further with each flight. None would require reaching another system, let alone descending to the third closest planet to the star in said system. Any ship travelling interstellar distances needs to travel at highly relativistic speeds, which requires a lot of accelerating to reach, and a lot of of decelerating to slow down. It makes zero sense to visit a planet for a very short time considering the vast distances and the delta-v required to do so.

And a suite of sensors to detect various forms of radiation, a way of collecting the interstellar dust etc. would serve that mission a lot better than sending a living thing which requires life support, food and water (or whatever such a life form needs to sustain intself).

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 00:09:23


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Spoiler:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
If they were still in the stage of sending animals up then they would not have the capability of interstellar travel.


What if they're in the early stages of interstellar travel, but have reached a point where they want to see if sending living organisms is viable?

It's a weird leap to think interstellar travel would just arrive as a complete and reliable technology. Look at our own efforts just to make commercial orbital travel practical.


Such missions would be a series of controlled flights out into interstellar space and back to their own solar system, going further with each flight. None would require reaching another system, let alone descending to the third closest planet to the star in said system. Any ship travelling interstellar distances needs to travel at highly relativistic speeds, which requires a lot of accelerating to reach, and a lot of of decelerating to slow down. It makes zero sense to visit a planet for a very short time considering the vast distances and the delta-v required to do so.


Why not? We have been scouring the skies looking for goldylocks planets ever since we first developed the technology to do so.
The very first aim of interstellar travel for us would be to go to all of those planets and see if they are capable of supporting colonies or if they contain some cool sheeet such as other life forms or civilisations.

Surely they would they look at the most temperate planets in order to study life as well?

I certainly think we would be more interested in a planet that is closer to our own which likely supports life then an un-stable radiated hellscape world thats getting half melted by the sun every rotation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
If they were still in the stage of sending animals up then they would not have the capability of interstellar travel.


What if they're in the early stages of interstellar travel, but have reached a point where they want to see if sending living organisms is viable?

It's a weird leap to think interstellar travel would just arrive as a complete and reliable technology. Look at our own efforts just to make commercial orbital travel practical.



And a suite of sensors to detect various forms of radiation, a way of collecting the interstellar dust etc. would serve that mission a lot better than sending a living thing which requires life support, food and water (or whatever such a life form needs to sustain intself).


I think that's why the idea of these being some sort of androids/robots is so popular. If you could send a droid AI or a artificial biological life form to investigate a potential colony you wouldn't send a mars rover... But if you would send some sort of more sophisticated robot.. (why a biped?)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 00:16:20


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Such missions would be a series of controlled flights out into interstellar space and back to their own solar system, going further with each flight. None would require reaching another system, let alone descending to the third closest planet to the star in said system. Any ship travelling interstellar distances needs to travel at highly relativistic speeds, which requires a lot of accelerating to reach, and a lot of of decelerating to slow down. It makes zero sense to visit a planet for a very short time considering the vast distances and the delta-v required to do so.


That's a lot of certainty based on a theoretical organism, society and technology which we have zero clue about, there's not even a set of hypothetical rules established ITT to give grounding to any of that.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 Azreal13 wrote:
Such missions would be a series of controlled flights out into interstellar space and back to their own solar system, going further with each flight. None would require reaching another system, let alone descending to the third closest planet to the star in said system. Any ship travelling interstellar distances needs to travel at highly relativistic speeds, which requires a lot of accelerating to reach, and a lot of of decelerating to slow down. It makes zero sense to visit a planet for a very short time considering the vast distances and the delta-v required to do so.


That's a lot of certainty based on a theoretical organism, society and technology which we have zero clue about, there's not even a set of hypothetical rules established ITT to give grounding to any of that.


That seems based on the very much not-hypothetical laws of physics, rather than assuming any aliens have Space Magic engines, which seems a lot more unreasonable and ungrounded.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Which circles neatly around to the upthread discussion about how there's often elements of uncertainty or known gaps in the functioning of those laws. Collectively we're a long way from a complete understanding to be leaning too hard on what a culture that is conceivably millennia or more ahead of our own may or may not know.

Just this evening I've watched a Brian Cox show where he states that travelling backwards in time is impossible. Probably.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 01:45:06


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Argive wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Argive wrote:

If you were advanced to be sending out scout ships/probes to get data and explore the universe. It makes sense you wouldn't be sending your best and brightest on these potentially dangerous trips on the front lines..


Which is why every astronaut has been an idiot.

Oh wait, it's the exact opposite.


The first "astronaut" was a chimp though..
Blasted into space and experimented on how he would handle space travel and if it could perform rudimentary task such as pressing buttons long before a human sat in a cockpit.
Before the chimp was a long line of cats. dogs (RIP Laika) and even frogs.

Ohh wait.. its almost like you totaly missed the point I was trying to make.



Because it doesn't make sense. If they were still in the stage of sending animals up then they would not have the capability of interstellar travel. Data collection is much easier to do with a computer, especially as a species with interstellar travel capabilities would also likely have advanced AI at their disposal. If they wanted to test how interstellar travel affected physiology then it would be a pre-programmed route which did not in any way involve interacting with any planet.

And there is zero reason to make a robot in the shape of a grey. Why limit its number of limbs like that? Why not incorporate more tools and equipment into it? What is the point of giving it legs when it is going to be operating in a zero-g environment and wheels or tracks are easier for situations where mobility across the ground is necessary? And why have it be separate from the space craft anyway? Just incorporate all the sensors into the vessel and have it controlled by an AI.


Ok wading into this, i can see reasons for not sending your best stuff out to explore strange new worlds. Suppose one of your exploration ships gets captured by bobby BEM, he takes it and the crew apart, then decided to attack you?

Maybe you want to send out what amounts to a model T vehicle and a crew of, ahem, members of the church of the sub genius. if they get lost, no loss. If they get captured the potential enemy he doesn't know how good you and your tech really is.


"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






So the suggestion is that the visits we've been getting from aliens for (at least) centuries, are experimental and high-risk endeavors? This whole time?

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page


I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history. 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Argive wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Argive wrote:

If you were advanced to be sending out scout ships/probes to get data and explore the universe. It makes sense you wouldn't be sending your best and brightest on these potentially dangerous trips on the front lines..


Which is why every astronaut has been an idiot.

Oh wait, it's the exact opposite.


The first "astronaut" was a chimp though..
Blasted into space and experimented on how he would handle space travel and if it could perform rudimentary task such as pressing buttons long before a human sat in a cockpit.
Before the chimp was a long line of cats. dogs (RIP Laika) and even frogs.

Ohh wait.. its almost like you totaly missed the point I was trying to make.


your point was that a mission of exploration of an alien world was to be undertaken by alien equivalent of Laika. We sent dogs and chimps out to test the technology, not because we expected them to do much exploring. If you send ships on interstellar travel with live cargo, it's a bit past "experimenting with tech" stage, don't you think?
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Yeah those early animal experiments were done to test technology before you put the highly trained, highly valuable human in the cockpit and blast them into space. They were testing the very basics on if mammalian life could survive the launch and zero gravity.

Once tested as a safe concept that's when highly skilled humans were put into cockpits, and yes sometimes they were lost to accidents and mistakes. It's a high investment high risk venture.

And if you look back through history heck even the first men to fly were flying their own machine.




That said if we were testing a new means to travel vast distances we might well use chimps and dogs and such again; to again test that its safe in theory before advancing to humans. Of course chances are by that stage we'd also be bundling them along with an advanced AI and other things.

   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Azreal13 wrote:
Which circles neatly around to the upthread discussion about how there's often elements of uncertainty or known gaps in the functioning of those laws. Collectively we're a long way from a complete understanding to be leaning too hard on what a culture that is conceivably millennia or more ahead of our own may or may not know.

Just this evening I've watched a Brian Cox show where he states that travelling backwards in time is impossible. Probably.


There is no gap in needing acceleration to speed up and deceleration to slow down, and that these require a net force to be applied to the object in question.

Unless you have a scientific paper that overthrows Netwon's first and second law?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 10:14:50


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

Cronch wrote:
If you send ships on interstellar travel with live cargo, it's a bit past "experimenting with tech" stage, don't you think?
Unless, time gets a bit wobbly, and they were all sent around the same time. Faster ships got here first, and slower ones are still coming. Technology doesn't stagnate. See Ender's Game for a fleet that builds up at the destination, as faster ships are sent out later on. Think about this from the other way around. The destination and ETA are irellevant. Exploration ships are sent out as the happen, and arrive at different times.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 09:27:01


4000 pts - 4000 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 1000 ptsDS:70+S+G++MB+IPw40k86/f+D++A++/cWD64R+T(T)DM+
IG/AM force nearly-finished pieces: http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-38888-41159_Armies%20-%20Imperial%20Guard.html
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw (probably)
Clubs around Coventry, UK 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Matt Swain wrote:


Ok wading into this, i can see reasons for not sending your best stuff out to explore strange new worlds. Suppose one of your exploration ships gets captured by bobby BEM, he takes it and the crew apart, then decided to attack you?

Maybe you want to send out what amounts to a model T vehicle and a crew of, ahem, members of the church of the sub genius. if they get lost, no loss. If they get captured the potential enemy he doesn't know how good you and your tech really is.



Because if you send a competent crew, you drastically reduce the chances of something going wrong due to crew error. They are also much more able to adjust to systems failure or other issues with the ship. Case in point, Apollo 13.

If you are at the technological level where ships capable of interstellar travel are the equivalent of the first mass produced car, and you want to avoid that tech falling into the hands of others then sending Cletus in his old banger to a random world makes zero sense over sending a competent science team in a more advanced ship. A skilled and intelligent crew is less likely to make mistakes, more likely to be able to solve any unexpected issues, be actually able to carry out mission goals etc.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 14:19:40


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Skinnereal wrote:
Cronch wrote:
If you send ships on interstellar travel with live cargo, it's a bit past "experimenting with tech" stage, don't you think?
Unless, time gets a bit wobbly, and they were all sent around the same time. Faster ships got here first, and slower ones are still coming. Technology doesn't stagnate. See Ender's Game for a fleet that builds up at the destination, as faster ships are sent out later on. Think about this from the other way around. The destination and ETA are irellevant. Exploration ships are sent out as the happen, and arrive at different times.

And...you load them up with dumb fleshy drones instead of either computers or actual researchers? And you keep sending them to the same planet?
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

Cronch wrote:
 Skinnereal wrote:
Cronch wrote:
If you send ships on interstellar travel with live cargo, it's a bit past "experimenting with tech" stage, don't you think?
Unless, time gets a bit wobbly, and they were all sent around the same time. Faster ships got here first, and slower ones are still coming. Technology doesn't stagnate. See Ender's Game for a fleet that builds up at the destination, as faster ships are sent out later on. Think about this from the other way around. The destination and ETA are irellevant. Exploration ships are sent out as the happen, and arrive at different times.

And...you load them up with dumb fleshy drones instead of either computers or actual researchers? And you keep sending them to the same planet?
If they're unreliable, or you need more info, yeah. The builders may be unable to travel, and have limited options for making technological drones, just organic ones.
And, we might be the only other place to send them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 13:07:51


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IG/AM force nearly-finished pieces: http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-38888-41159_Armies%20-%20Imperial%20Guard.html
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw (probably)
Clubs around Coventry, UK 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Skinnereal wrote:
If they're unreliable, or you need more info, yeah. The builders may be unable to travel, and have limited options for making technological drones, just organic ones.
And, we might be the only other place to send them.


If they are unreliable, you make them reliable. Any space craft capable of interstellar travel is a sizeable investment. It requires fuel, power generation which can last for years, decades, maybe even centuries whilst keeping systems at working temperatures during the journey across interstellar space, the equipment to gather and store any samples or data you want to collect. Building a load of unreliable space ships to load with badly designed drones is just compounding the points of mission failure. It's like saying that if you have a plane which stalls if you try to fly above a certain altitude, you should hire bad pilots so you don't lose anyone valuable when they exceed its altitude limit, rather than a good pilot who won't take it above its maximum altitude to begin with.

Any society which can produce any space craft capable of interstellar travel will have absolutely no problem making technological drones or a computer system which can do anything which said drones are meant to do.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 16:52:35


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

What if they made AI controlled drones, but the AI rose up and rebelled against them, sparking a major war. So upon putting down the uprising they outlawed AI and had to make do with organic based drones which aren't as smart nor efficient because of technological gaps in their development because they'd relied on AI for so long?:







Also its important to realise that technology is relative. Lets not forget we explored most of the known world we live on today with ships that were often under-supplied and not the best built for the technology of their day. But they are and were what people could afford to use and what did get used in the end.

The same is true of even space programs- resources and finances and investment and recourse allocation are all things that come into play.
Maybe their race has high technology but considers exploration of space a wasted investment; or exploration of our solarsystem/ region as a waste. There's nothing interesting there, nothing they value so its done under budget on the side by a smaller group that might not have the best resources.



any theory regarding aliens that works with absolutes is bound to fail because we have only one data point - ourselves - to work with.

   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

Perhaps the drones are purpose-built by the ships long after they arrived, purely to interface with a species that had a psychological need to view ships as crewed. Considering some of the stranger accounts, the greys, Nordics, reptilians, etc, could all simply be constructs to manipulate or understand human psychological reactions.

   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Overread wrote:
What if they made AI controlled drones, but the AI rose up and rebelled against them, sparking a major war. So upon putting down the uprising they outlawed AI and had to make do with organic based drones which aren't as smart nor efficient because of technological gaps in their development because they'd relied on AI for so long?:

If they had AI advanced enough to do that, they wouldn't win. That's all there is to it,there is no scenario in which biological-based technological civilization can win against it's own creations and maintain that civilization.
Considering some of the stranger accounts, the greys, Nordics, reptilians, etc, could all simply be constructs to manipulate or understand human psychological reactions.

Why not build a human zoo? If you can come and butt-prod us, you can steal a bunch of babies or eggs and just observe there. Like, you have to come up with increasingly more elaborate theories why the aliens, if it ever runs into occam's razor it won't be pretty.
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Argive wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Argive wrote:

If you were advanced to be sending out scout ships/probes to get data and explore the universe. It makes sense you wouldn't be sending your best and brightest on these potentially dangerous trips on the front lines..


Which is why every astronaut has been an idiot.

Oh wait, it's the exact opposite.


The first "astronaut" was a chimp though..
Blasted into space and experimented on how he would handle space travel and if it could perform rudimentary task such as pressing buttons long before a human sat in a cockpit.
Before the chimp was a long line of cats. dogs (RIP Laika) and even frogs.

Ohh wait.. its almost like you totaly missed the point I was trying to make.



Because it doesn't make sense. If they were still in the stage of sending animals up then they would not have the capability of interstellar travel. Data collection is much easier to do with a computer, especially as a species with interstellar travel capabilities would also likely have advanced AI at their disposal. If they wanted to test how interstellar travel affected physiology then it would be a pre-programmed route which did not in any way involve interacting with any planet.

And there is zero reason to make a robot in the shape of a grey. Why limit its number of limbs like that? Why not incorporate more tools and equipment into it? What is the point of giving it legs when it is going to be operating in a zero-g environment and wheels or tracks are easier for situations where mobility across the ground is necessary? And why have it be separate from the space craft anyway? Just incorporate all the sensors into the vessel and have it controlled by an AI.


I guess we don't need to wait for aliens to contact us since you clearly know everything about alien cultures and their technologies. Could you upload the blueprints for a clean renewable energy source since they must have one and you would therefore know about it?

"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

Who says they haven’t built a human zoo? One common element in abduction stories is alien interest in harvesting human sex cells.

I still think you’re limiting how you conceive of the aliens and their motivations.

   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Matt Swain wrote:
Could you upload the blueprints for a clean renewable energy source since they must have one and you would therefore know about it?


It's called nuclear fusion.

Also, nothing I commented on there was to do with culture. It is purely about best practices in science.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 16:51:31


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Perhaps the drones are purpose-built by the ships long after they arrived, purely to interface with a species that had a psychological need to view ships as crewed.


Still mad that Necrons have vehicles with pilots, tbh. I will never not mod out a pilot if it's a necron vehicle or walker and I think the justification for why they are present is... poor.

Sorry for the digression.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 16:42:31


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Who says they haven’t built a human zoo? O


Plot twist:- We are the zoo.


 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Argive wrote:

I'm not disparaging the quality of our brave astronauts.
But would we be sending these people in a potentially one way trip though to a planet inhabited by maniacal humanoids as likely to chop each other up as to co-operate?


I know I'm basing this off, you know, the entire history of exploration by Western Civilization, but... there are people who wouldn't do that?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 17:13:09



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Really, really hope that the aliens aren't "exploring" the same way westerners did lol
but also basing what alien species might do based on the completely deranged behavior of western colonizers is probably not the best of ideas, id hope.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 17:18:30


 
   
 
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