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 Tomsug wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I don't know if I see the appeal of nob bikers, knowing that squighogs exist.

They're somehow more expensive.

Yes, but move 18” and charge in waaaghand taking Warboss on Warbike / Wartrike with them. Move 20” and charge with the enhancement. And than Consolidate 6”. They can be on the other side of the table in asingle turn.

Squighog boyz do their 10”+D6” = 13,5” ignoring modifiers. Totaly different ammount of movement.

Their CC is in comparison with the Killsaw Nobz different. Nobz are definitely better in killing elite infantry.

Snaggas are T7 W3 4+/5+++, Nobz are T6 W4 4+/6++

They are quite a different unit imho…

2 base killsaw attacks are better than 6 2 damage attacks per model at killing elite infantry? I'm sorry man, I don't think that's true.

Number one, I think you're still going to be better off against any kind of infantry with 3 attacks instead of 2. But the squighogs just have many more attacks. You're talking about 8 damage 2 attacks on waaagh.

I do agree squig riders are better overall especially if against monster/vehicle targets. you are taking warboss on bike 85pts w nobs on bike as he helps them achieve value..

A unit of nob warbikers 125pts vs squigriders 110pts (+75pts for nob on squig)
9x str9 ap-2 2 damage bs3+ vs
9x str5 ap-1 2 damage bs2+ & 9x str6 ap-1 2 damage bs3+ & bomb squig

The damage for bikers is better for toughness 4-5 and 3+ or better save elite infantry types plus it’s better for speed and range damage but that’s thier only niche otherwise Squighogs are better.

Participated in my first 1k 10th tourney.
All missions were the same one with VP for killing enemy units which screwed my gaming plan hard.
I took: wagon with ghaz and 2 manz, 2 trukks with boyz, 2 skrapjets, 10 grots with herd.

1st game was vs csm with 2x5 havoks, 2 oblis, 5 csm and 20 cultists.
Highlights: 2 oblis one-shot a wagon and than killed ghaz on overwatch. Trukks scored, scrapjets killed 1 obliterator with rokkits and dealt a couple mw in mellee finishing the second off with nose drills. Eventually, orks outscored csm but lost too many units and it was a 40-40 draw. Boyz really struggled to kill anything other than cultists and regular csm.

2d game was vs deathwatch with 10 meltas, 10 bolter Marines with 2 hb and a bunch of th+shield termies with characters.
Highlights: meltas killed a trukk and than a skrapjet on overwatch. Ghaz had nothing to do other than finish off the meltas and score a point. Regular Marines with bolters one-shot a trukk thanks to oath of the moment, lethal hits and mw from heavy bolters. Overwatch from regular bolter Marines dropped a skrapjet to 1 wound. Wagon eventually killed regular Marines in mellee cause they were bad at throwing 4+ saves. Th termies one-shot a wagon hitting with just half a squad.
Ended up as a loss cause, once again, orks scored some but lost too many squads quickly.
46-58

3d game was vs our main power-gamer that ran gsc. The main highlight was that he surrounded the wagon with a 3" Deepstrike so that after one-shotting it with his 150 pt unit with no effort at all, ghaz couldn't disembark and was slain. Oh, and a skrapjet was killed on overwatch once again. Orks had 0 chances from the very beginning.

Overall thoughts: we feel very weak compared to what other factions get. Ghaz was useless, everything was squishy and dealt very low damage for points. Was very disappointed with most of our stuff. Let's wait till codex drops.

 koooaei wrote:
Participated in my first 1k 10th tourney.
All missions were the same one with VP for killing enemy units which screwed my gaming plan hard.

Where does one find the rules for these sorts of missions? I have never played a full match (several small friendly patrol-sized matches where we just tried to kill each other, and some killteam) but I'd like to better understand what to expect as i build up my army.

thanks,
Coh

Nob bikers vs Squighog Boyz - the point of my note was, bikers are bloody fast. Squigriders don' t .

If you die before getting into CC, it doesn't matter how many attacks you have.

If you check the attacks etc. only, Squigriders are definitely better.


I' m reading the primary and secodnary mission. What I see:
- absolutely no limits on who do the “actions “ (except one semi-focused on characters).
- a lot of secondaries focused on doing a lot of actions on a lot of places around the table.
- while doing these actions, you cannot charge and shoot.

=> you need some units dedicated to play these missions. Requirements? Cheap, Fast, Cheap, Hard to kill, cheap, cheap.

Our second cheapest unit is Trukk with 12” T8 W10 with auto repair every turn for unbelievable 50p.

If I understand it right, Trukks can do these actions. They can score.

So the gameplan =
- take a lot of Trukks. You can have a trukk+5 lootas for 105! Or stormboyz for 115p. To keep it cheap.
- have the main body of your army that deals damage based on Vehicles/Monsters.
- kill all of the enemy antitank

= oversaturation of one type of target and paralising of the enemy ability to kill your scoring trukks.
= disadventage is, that you sacrifice Bring it down. This makes you to keep down the number of CHARACTERS you take, because Assasination scores 4VP for every Character = you cannot sacrifice 2 secondaries.

Can we live with just 2 characters?
Can we make a scoring list with just the tough vehicles?

I' m not sure…

You can’t drop Characters our entire army is based on it.

This is the best list I can build. You are giving up assasinate no matter what even if they only clear half the characters but bring it down isn’t bad Only 6 vehicles (4 of which are trukks).
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/810418.page

It' s actualy pretty crazy.

Any army gives up Assasinate.
And with the trucks 4 trucks and 2 mekgunz you give up 14VP on Bring it down.

I don' t see anything stopping anybody to take both.
As I understand it, it is about leaders everywhere. So “give up Assasinate” is valid for everybody and “give up bring it down” for the half of the armies…
It seems we basicly cannot play Vehicles in bigger scale…

 Tomsug wrote:

Is there a chance GW add the FW units in his new app or is my wish totaly out of this world?

they said they will soon

Not sure must go here: the warboss on warbike hit with the PK 3+ and the Killsaw at 4+? every other istance in the codex both weapons hit with the same skill. Errata? Mistake?

Just going to complain about this for a minute.

The new unit sizes is PISSING ME OFF!

I now have more than 2x the amount of stormboyz i'm allowed. I have 2x more bikers than I'm allowed. I have HUNDREDS more boyz than I am allowed.

Getting a bit upset with GW arbitrarily deciding to cut unit sizes dramatically. I'm really hoping they change some of this in the actual codex but I doubt it.

As far as unit power goes? I'll reserve judgement until i get a few games in, but my initial feeling is that we aren't durable enough and our dmg output got nerfed.

 Tomsug wrote:
It' s actualy pretty crazy.

Any army gives up Assasinate.
And with the trucks 4 trucks and 2 mekgunz you give up 14VP on Bring it down.

I don' t see anything stopping anybody to take both.
As I understand it, it is about leaders everywhere. So “give up Assasinate” is valid for everybody and “give up bring it down” for the half of the armies…
It seems we basicly cannot play Vehicles in bigger scale…

I mean they have to work for assassinate since it requires wiping out nearly the whole ablative wound unit, but it’s a given and regarding vehicles i contemplated dropping 1 trukk and turning 2 trukks into big trakks just to make getting bring it down a pain to score but that means I’ll need to put flashgitz into reserves. Which to be fair isn’t bad but bigtrakks aren’t going to have full transport and supa kannons for long.

SemperMortis wrote:
Just going to complain about this for a minute.

The new unit sizes is PISSING ME OFF!

I now have more than 2x the amount of stormboyz i'm allowed. I have 2x more bikers than I'm allowed. I have HUNDREDS more boyz than I am allowed.

Getting a bit upset with GW arbitrarily deciding to cut unit sizes dramatically. I'm really hoping they change some of this in the actual codex but I doubt it.

As far as unit power goes? I'll reserve judgement until i get a few games in, but my initial feeling is that we aren't durable enough and our dmg output got nerfed.

I think we’re quite a bit more durable than last edition. I ran a squad of 20 boys w/ painboy and popped -1 to wound in the center obj and it took my opponent shooting 40 necron warrriors in double tap range and doomsday ark to kill basically 12 dudes.

Power level wise I’d say we’re low high tier or top of mid tier assuming your running trukk spam. I’ve played 4-5 games with them so far and won them all fairly comfortably but the games I spammed trukks were definitely the easy wins. They’re by far our best datasheet. For competitive games I just auto bring 5-6 and just spam beastbosses and warbosses with beast snaggas, boys/nobs in them cause they’re cheap and hit hard on waaagh turn. So far I’ve had them against the ultra tough necron lychguard, custodes allarus termies w/ shield captain, gk paladins, and deathwing and they came out on top in all of them. The deathwing player was new so didn’t really know the proper combo with them so that was has an asterisk, but the point is we do still hit quite hard if your hitting with your full trukk army at once.

I’ll be trying out the garg squig in my next game with 20 burna boys inside. Heard from some fellow ork players that have run it that it’s basically unkillable with ard as nails (outside armies that can spam mw) and I feel 20 burna boys over watching inside would be pretty hilarious and potentially really strong.

I attended a small tournament where i got 3 games in (Genestealers, Thousand sons and sisters of battle) (we were only like 10 people though) and i won 1 battle out of 3. Although i should have won the last battle against sisters as i was dominant, but i sadly messed up by the end, and i also suspect my enemy might have made a little cheatsy. I suspect he didnt roll 2 random tactical missions but simply picked them off his app, which, coincidentially meant he could get storm an objective, and the objective where he had to take my objective in my DZ, when he was right next to it. But sure what ever.

Apparently though the leader of a flaggelant unit deals damage 3 which i didnt know so i tried to tie up 2 flaggelants and their leader from moving with a trukk. I should have just move blocked instead and i would have instantly won, instead the damage 3 attacks just shredded my trukk lol. Which opened up for him being able to get to my objective in my DZ.

Also, i ran a gargantuan Squiggoth. I always had 2x10 Snagga boys in the squig and my 10 flash gitz in reserve, with my 2x nobz with warbosses in the trukk.


The quick notes of what did well and what did not:
The Flash Gitz absolutely melt anything they touch. Well maybe not vehicles after you have used your ammo runt, but be it overwatch or regular shooting, everything just dies. In all battles they came in from reserve, and in all rounds where it made sense, they deleted an enemy with overwatch fire. In two of my battles they survived all rounds. They died around round 2 or 3 against the gene stealers but against Thousand sons, they killed 10 rubric marines + Ahriman, a Vortex Beast, a character thingie + i believe 5 terminators. Against Sisters of battle they deleted 1 unit in every single round. In fact in the turn they came in from reserve, they deleted 2x5 melta retributor thingies, then a unit of 10 zeraphims, then celestine, TWICE (lol) and something else i cant remember.

Beastboss on squiggosaur is.... well.. eeeh.. I mean he is okay, i DID pay for a kill choppa and all so he was like 185 or something or what ever his price is with that weapon but to be fair, i didnt fight a lot of vehicles or monsters. He whiffed a decent amount of attacks and hes only really like strength 6 or so without the waagh. He is tanky, ill give you that, but his damage was kinda meh. Why the squig mouth suddenly needs to hit on 4s i dont understand. He is okay, he is probably worth the points, but i would 100% rather spend the points on Mozrog.

Gargantuan Squiggoth did.. Surprisingly well. Throw a slick -1 to wound on it and most of my opponents were like: oh feth me" although i did tell them about it before hand. In my last battle my opponent didnt even bother attacking it untill like turn 3. Against genestealers it was alive till turn 3, against thousand sons it died turn 2 to Magnus, but for 2CP i was fighting on death, killing magnus in return. The only reason it even died was because when magnus charged my squig turn 1 and whiffed, i, in return ALSO whiffed massively so it went to ongoing combat. Against sisters of battle, it werent even injured untill turn 3 when it was sitting on the middle objective. The fact it has toughness 13 and then get -1 to wound really puts most people off from even wanting to deal with it. Against the sisters, he didnt even bother shooting his meltas at my Squiggoth because he would wound on 6s lol Also the biggest lol was against Thousand Sons where my squiggoth died to magnus (and killed magnus too) but exploded, dealing 2D6 in to my own backline. Oh god the carnage it caused..! i lost 3 squighogs and like 12-14 beastsnagga boys total. But that rule where you cant stand on an objective? Is the stupidest thing i have ever fething seen and heard of. It needs to be rid of in this game.

Squighog Boys To be fair, im not sure how much i like these. they were decently tanky at toughness 7 and a 5+++ but most my opponents didnt have vehicles or monsters, and thinking back, i forgot to give myself +1 to wound a couple of times when i charged and didnt attack vehicles or monsters, but even then. They arent bad, but in my list, i probably needed more anti infantry power. Their own killing power was lowered significantly as well, only AP1 on its attacks, squig jaws hitting on 4s and arent anti monster or vehicle. So only really 4 of your attacks are really useful on a waaagh turn versus monsters or vehicles. The squig mouthes are going to whiff against what you really want to attack. Surely a Nob on Smasha squig would have been amazing here, but im not sure where i should have gotten the points from.
out of maybe 6 squig bombs thrown during all my games, i failed maybe 4 lol. Thats just bad rolling, the squig bombs are still good though.

Nobz with powerklaws and a warboss Very good unit id say. The +1 to hit and -1 to wound really helps these dudes out. I gave follow me ladz to one of the units, and fallback and charge on the other (simply because i had few points left). In the future ill remove fallback and charge and simply buy Mozrog instead of a beastboss lol. Anyway, sure they still die in the end when being attacked but the enemy has to use considerably more power to do so. And their powerklaws are still decent weapons, wounding many smaller things on 2 and 3s. Against sisters, they ran up to Morhven val (Morgan freeman, what ever her name is) and used epic combat (MORTAL KOMBAT!) and squished her good. the +4 attacks +1 from waagh on a warboss is really good to pump up those rookie numbers. AT first i debated using a 10 man unit, but i feel like a 5 man unit is really the good spot because you can run in two different directions.

Beastsnagga boys did well without the beastboss, nothing to complain about.

Grots remain great at holding objectives. the extra CP they give is insanely invaluable, especially if you intend to overwatch everytime the enemy moves with flash gitz.

 flaming tadpole wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Just going to complain about this for a minute.

The new unit sizes is PISSING ME OFF!

I now have more than 2x the amount of stormboyz i'm allowed. I have 2x more bikers than I'm allowed. I have HUNDREDS more boyz than I am allowed.

Getting a bit upset with GW arbitrarily deciding to cut unit sizes dramatically. I'm really hoping they change some of this in the actual codex but I doubt it.

As far as unit power goes? I'll reserve judgement until i get a few games in, but my initial feeling is that we aren't durable enough and our dmg output got nerfed.

I think we’re quite a bit more durable than last edition. I ran a squad of 20 boys w/ painboy and popped -1 to wound in the center obj and it took my opponent shooting 40 necron warrriors in double tap range and doomsday ark to kill basically 12 dudes.

Power level wise I’d say we’re low high tier or top of mid tier assuming your running trukk spam. I’ve played 4-5 games with them so far and won them all fairly comfortably but the games I spammed trukks were definitely the easy wins. They’re by far our best datasheet. For competitive games I just auto bring 5-6 and just spam beastbosses and warbosses with beast snaggas, boys/nobs in them cause they’re cheap and hit hard on waaagh turn. So far I’ve had them against the ultra tough necron lychguard, custodes allarus termies w/ shield captain, gk paladins, and deathwing and they came out on top in all of them. The deathwing player was new so didn’t really know the proper combo with them so that was has an asterisk, but the point is we do still hit quite hard if your hitting with your full trukk army at once.

I’ll be trying out the garg squig in my next game with 20 burna boys inside. Heard from some fellow ork players that have run it that it’s basically unkillable with ard as nails (outside armies that can spam mw) and I feel 20 burna boys over watching inside would be pretty hilarious and potentially really strong.

Has gargant some extra rule that allows overwatch? Firing deck only applies in own shooting phase so overwatch not usable

tneva82 wrote:


Has gargant some extra rule that allows overwatch? Firing deck only applies in own shooting phase so overwatch not usable

You are correct good sir. Overwatch specifically states the shooting phase. As raw, the transports cannot shoot the weapons of it's occupants outside that phase, and it has no rules specifying otherwise... I suspect this is one of the many oversights from GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is a silver lining though of the interaction between towering and firing deck.

eh, i could see it being intended since theyve denied embarked units firing overwatch for quite awhile now.
And even though firing deck "technically" is the transport firing, thematically its still the unit embarked.

Good point, I saw the ao40k guys talking about doing it so assumed they knew, but looking at raw looks like it's a no go. Probably for the best since overwatch is already pretty op.

gungo wrote:
I do agree squig riders are better overall especially if against monster/vehicle targets. you are taking warboss on bike 85pts w nobs on bike as he helps them achieve value..

A unit of nob warbikers 125pts vs squigriders 110pts (+75pts for nob on squig)
9x str9 ap-2 2 damage bs3+ vs
9x str5 ap-1 2 damage bs2+ & 9x str6 ap-1 2 damage bs3+ & bomb squig

The damage for bikers is better for toughness 4-5 and 3+ or better save elite infantry types plus it’s better for speed and range damage but that’s thier only niche otherwise Squighogs are better.

Squighogs should be dealing more damage against T4 3+ save.

Where are you getting that they aren't?

They have twice as many D2 attacks. Just run the math real quick.

 flaming tadpole wrote:
Good point, I saw the ao40k guys talking about doing it so assumed they knew, but looking at raw looks like it's a no go. Probably for the best since overwatch is already pretty op.

Yeah that's why i'm hoping it's intentional. Overwatch is already good so some limit is welcome.

Tricky limit to spot though. Very easy to miss.

You are right squig riders are better at all targets in melee. Bikes just have a bit more speed.

tneva82 wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:
Good point, I saw the ao40k guys talking about doing it so assumed they knew, but looking at raw looks like it's a no go. Probably for the best since overwatch is already pretty op.

Yeah that's why i'm hoping it's intentional. Overwatch is already good so some limit is welcome.

Tricky limit to spot though. Very easy to miss.

Overwatch is ' shoot as if it is your shooting phase'. Whats the reason a transport cannot shoot firing deck with overwatch?

shogun wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:
Good point, I saw the ao40k guys talking about doing it so assumed they knew, but looking at raw looks like it's a no go. Probably for the best since overwatch is already pretty op.

Yeah that's why i'm hoping it's intentional. Overwatch is already good so some limit is welcome.

Tricky limit to spot though. Very easy to miss.

Overwatch is ' shoot as if it is your shooting phase'. Whats the reason a transport cannot shoot firing deck with overwatch?

Out of phase actrons likb overwatch can't use otherrules triggered in phase. Check the ruls commentary which has section on those(and even uses overwatch as example of out of phase action)

i still think firing deck works in overwatch. as firing deck is triggered when as unit shoots (step 1 of "when a units shoots" page 15 core rulebook)

there is a whole YMDC thread about it.

i dont get the difference between making ranged attacks (step 3) and selecting a model to shoot (step 1) both happen while "a unit shoots"

the commentary about out of phase rules is about abilities that trigger outside of "when a unit shoots", like the example given with the bombardment wich triggers AFTER a unit has shot

but i guess a FAQ is needed. for me its pretty clear, for other not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i am pretty stumped that the lil squigoth has lost his howda rule... its now basically a ceaper BW with no -1ap rule, fewer guns and only 10 transport cap. if you really need 35 points for something use the squigoth, if you have the points a BW will always be the better choice

I got some games of 10th in now, here are my thoughts:

- This is not a boyz' edition. They are more durable than before thanks to 5+ armor and near omni-present cover, but everyone else got more durable as well making choppas mediocre at best and shootas worse. I haven't tried the weirdboy yet, but for other leaders it feels like a lot of effort and points invested just to then obliterated by units with a bunch of d3 blast weapons.
- Nobz are awesome, what a time to be playing orks. With their permanent 'ard as nails they are surprisingly durable and with the +1 to hit buff from the warboss they can reliably threaten even vehicles. It took 3 klaws and 2 big choppas for a bit of extra anti-horde capability, I didn't regret it.
- We need to change our perception of the warboss. He can no longer solo-kill tanks, monsters or heavy infantry, but he is extremely efficient at killing pretty much everything else.
- I feel like the killchoppa ist wasted on a warboss, it probably should be reserved for beastsnagga characters for killing monsters.
- Follow me ladz' is my new favorite enhancement. Having a warboss and nobz move 8"+d6 and charge during a Waaagh! to sprint out from cover onto an objective and murder everyone there is great. Throw in 'ere we go and watch them run faster than actual nob bikers
- To my own surprise warbikers lead by a wartrike didn't suck. Despite their +1 to hit in melee, they just barely managed to kill units of GEQ with leader, but their shooting is the real deal. I popped overwatch on them whenever I could, and especially the AP-2 flamer on the wartrike did gork's work. The extra speed allowed me to keep them out of sight and range of dangerous guns, and the wartrike's big base allows for some funky engagement range shenanigans with just the trike touching the enemy and the bikes all touching the wartrike like leaves. This allowed all of them to fight even in bottleneck situations.
- In general, getting most of your unit to bear is much easier than I though it would be, except for large mobs of boyz I never had more than one or two model in the fight that would have been in engagement range in 9th.
- Squighog riders are great. Super durable, and all those attacks that make nob on smasha squig feel like overkill. Anything they touched just died, and any attempts to harm them were foiled by 'ard as nails, often reducing the attacker to wounding on sixes. Bomb squigs are just the icing on the cake, and my favorite application of them is blowing up lone operatives. Very much felt like running 5th edition nob bikers again.
- Beastboss on Squigosaur, well... all my opponents were terrified of him which led to him dying before he could touch anything every single game. He always did die close to the end of a shooting phase though, once he even lasted till turn 2. I guess having your opponent skip their first shooting phase for 165 points isn't terrible.
- Scrapjet wasn't bad, though I wonder why the big shoota was reduced to 18"... might as well scratched it off completely. The 2+d6 rokkits is nice though and I actually managed to kill a vehicle with it. It then died to actual anti-tank guns as if it were paper. So not bad, but not good either. I did not get to use the nose drill.
- Kanz were great. No, I'm being serious. During your shooting phase, three rokkits hitting on 4+ with blast and ignore cover did a lot better than I though it would. However, there is more - using them to shoot overwatch at units of 10 or more is suprisingly effective, plus they are good targets for heroic intervention - having three additional muder-bots in combat throws off the math for pretty much any combat.
- Big Mek with MA and KFF is super expensive, but also super durable. I'm not sure what the right number of MANz is though. 3 seems like enough in most cases, except when you roll bad or your opponent has hot dice and kills all 3 in one turn. 5 feels like overdoing it, and it's not like they will suddenly start killing stuff they couldn't before because they have three additional models.
- I though burna boys would be the new hot thing with overwatch essentially doubling their shooting. It's not. Without AP, S4 simply doesn't gut it.
- I love that the KMB is 3 shots flat now. They are genuinely good guns now.
- Kombi-shootas are super bad and should never, ever be taken instead of an alternative, including slugga and choppa.
- Koptas aren't as good as they seem? They have gone back to their original role as flanking unit which takes pot-shots, but can't really kill anything on their own. The bomb is nice, but very situational and almost always leads to their death immediately afterwards. Like most of the speed freeks it feels like they are waiting for a dedicated detachment that makes them click together into a viable army.
- Gretchin are mandatory, at least one unit per army. Even the basic stratagems like overwatch, grenades, heroic intervention or epic challenge can decide a game if used in the right situation. With stratagems that powerful you are hard-pressed to justify spending those 45-90 points elsewhere.
- 'ard as nails is by far the best stratagem orks have had so far. I use it almost every turn and rarely regret it.

 Jidmah wrote:
I got some games of 10th in now, here are my thoughts:

- This is not a boyz' edition. They are more durable than before thanks to 5+ armor and near omni-present cover, but everyone else got more durable as well making choppas mediocre at best and shootas worse. I haven't tried the weirdboy yet, but for other leaders it feels like a lot of effort and points invested just to then obliterated by units with a bunch of d3 blast weapons.
- Nobz are awesome, what a time to be playing orks. With their permanent 'ard as nails they are surprisingly durable and with the +1 to hit buff from the warboss they can reliably threaten even vehicles. It took 3 klaws and 2 big choppas for a bit of extra anti-horde capability, I didn't regret it.
- We need to change our perception of the warboss. He can no longer solo-kill tanks, monsters or heavy infantry, but he is extremely efficient at killing pretty much everything else.
- I feel like the killchoppa ist wasted on a warboss, it probably should be reserved for beastsnagga characters for killing monsters.
- Follow me ladz' is my new favorite enhancement. Having a warboss and nobz move 8"+d6 and charge during a Waaagh! to sprint out from cover onto an objective and murder everyone there is great. Throw in 'ere we go and watch them run faster than actual nob bikers
- To my own surprise warbikers lead by a wartrike didn't suck. Despite their +1 to hit in melee, they just barely managed to kill units of GEQ with leader, but their shooting is the real deal. I popped overwatch on them whenever I could, and especially the AP-2 flamer on the wartrike did gork's work. The extra speed allowed me to keep them out of sight and range of dangerous guns, and the wartrike's big base allows for some funky engagement range shenanigans with just the trike touching the enemy and the bikes all touching the wartrike like leaves. This allowed all of them to fight even in bottleneck situations.
- In general, getting most of your unit to bear is much easier than I though it would be, except for large mobs of boyz I never had more than one or two model in the fight that would have been in engagement range in 9th.
- Squighog riders are great. Super durable, and all those attacks that make nob on smasha squig feel like overkill. Anything they touched just died, and any attempts to harm them were foiled by 'ard as nails, often reducing the attacker to wounding on sixes. Bomb squigs are just the icing on the cake, and my favorite application of them is blowing up lone operatives. Very much felt like running 5th edition nob bikers again.
- Beastboss on Squigosaur, well... all my opponents were terrified of him which led to him dying before he could touch anything every single game. He always did die close to the end of a shooting phase though, once he even lasted till turn 2. I guess having your opponent skip their first shooting phase for 165 points isn't terrible.
- Scrapjet wasn't bad, though I wonder why the big shoota was reduced to 18"... might as well scratched it off completely. The 2+d6 rokkits is nice though and I actually managed to kill a vehicle with it. It then died to actual anti-tank guns as if it were paper. So not bad, but not good either. I did not get to use the nose drill.
- Kanz were great. No, I'm being serious. During your shooting phase, three rokkits hitting on 4+ with blast and ignore cover did a lot better than I though it would. However, there is more - using them to shoot overwatch at units of 10 or more is suprisingly effective, plus they are good targets for heroic intervention - having three additional muder-bots in combat throws off the math for pretty much any combat.
- Big Mek with MA and KFF is super expensive, but also super durable. I'm not sure what the right number of MANz is though. 3 seems like enough in most cases, except when you roll bad or your opponent has hot dice and kills all 3 in one turn. 5 feels like overdoing it, and it's not like they will suddenly start killing stuff they couldn't before because they have three additional models.
- I though burna boys would be the new hot thing with overwatch essentially doubling their shooting. It's not. Without AP, S4 simply doesn't gut it.
- I love that the KMB is 3 shots flat now. They are genuinely good guns now.
- Kombi-shootas are super bad and should never, ever be taken instead of an alternative, including slugga and choppa.
- Koptas aren't as good as they seem? They have gone back to their original role as flanking unit which takes pot-shots, but can't really kill anything on their own. The bomb is nice, but very situational and almost always leads to their death immediately afterwards. Like most of the speed freeks it feels like they are waiting for a dedicated detachment that makes them click together into a viable army.
- Gretchin are mandatory, at least one unit per army. Even the basic stratagems like overwatch, grenades, heroic intervention or epic challenge can decide a game if used in the right situation. With stratagems that powerful you are hard-pressed to justify spending those 45-90 points elsewhere.
- 'ard as nails is by far the best stratagem orks have had so far. I use it almost every turn and rarely regret it.

Definitely agree with your assessment of boyz sadly. I tried decking them out with Warbosses and Painboyz/WAAAGH! banners and while they can feel tanky against certain units, they still melt under dedicated fire (especially blast weapons) and there's a lot more precision weapons than I remember there being, it doesn't actually take that much to kill your defensive characters which then exposes your unit to be even more vulnerable to shooting.

Any thoughts on Beast Snagga Boyz? I'm 50/50 on having using 10 man squads of them since it feels like they have more indepedence than boyz units and are better suited for Trukks.

Also my experience my latest game so far:

- Meganobz with Twin Killsaws just have too few attacks, even with a Megaboss attached they simply put out too little damage and if it's not a WAAAGH! turn they basically just kind of sit there. Power Klaws or go home IMO, I'm tempted to try out a Megamek with KFF with them just to make them tankier/be more of an anvil unit rather than a hammer, since Nobz seem to do that job better.

- Flash Gitz+Kaptin Badrukk rock like everyone else has said so far. Put in em in Strategic Reserves and watch them blow off a unit when they get set up on the board.

- Mek Gunz are just okay, though the change to hazardous is actually kind of annoying since it only takes a few bad rolls of 1's to start killing models a lot faster than in the past since now it's a flat 3 mortal wounds. With cover being everywhere I feel like the lack of AP really hurts as I was trying to kill a unit of Deathmarks in cover with a full squad of KMK with a Big Mek and SAG attached to it with good blast bonuses and I basically couldn't kill the unit the entire game and gave up shooting at them. Granted the Necrons feel way tougher this edition and my opponent rolled like hot cakes but I feel like their lack of mobility hurts them in getting ideal targets.

Is the general consensus for using Nobz a unit of 10 in a Trukk with Warboss?

 Grimskul wrote:
Definitely agree with your assessment of boyz sadly. I tried decking them out with Warbosses and Painboyz/WAAAGH! banners and while they can feel tanky against certain units, they still melt under dedicated fire (especially blast weapons) and there's a lot more precision weapons than I remember there being, it doesn't actually take that much to kill your defensive characters which then exposes your unit to be even more vulnerable to shooting.

When playing against GSC and marines with eliminators I just popped 'ard as nails every time their sniper units tried to snipe one of my characters. This makes most sniper rifles wound on 5s or 6s, usually dragging out the inevitable long enough to get value out of my leaders.

Any thoughts on Beast Snagga Boyz? I'm 50/50 on having using 10 man squads of them since it feels like they have more indepedence than boyz units and are better suited for Trukks.

My thoughts on beast snagga boyz is that I dread building the five units of them which make up the only pile of shame that I have. I really hated building kommandoz, and their bits seem to be arranged in a similarly chaotic manner.

In 9th I proxied my 'ard boyz as snaggas, in 10th I haven't played them yet. My experience with choppa boyz is mixed, beastsnaggas might be good enough, but they might also not be.

My current plan is finishing my flash gits and a second SJD. I've seen necron murder-balls played on the table next to me, and I absolutely want to be able to snipe characters.


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 Grimskul wrote:
Is the general consensus for using Nobz a unit of 10 in a Trukk with Warboss?

I don't see any advantage of using a truck over getting Follow Me, using 'ere we go or putting them into stratagic reserves. In addition, I'd rather use two units of 5 with a warboss each than one unit of 10. There also are precious few problems that 20 PK attacks can't solve, but are magically solved adding another 15 attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Combining my experiences with what I've read here, my planned list looks something like this:

So far I've been leaning into a durability list and have had some solid success, including against some of the real 'boogeymen' of the edition.

My general list setup has been to use a few defensive 'anvil' units, a few offensive 'hammer' units (that aren't half bad at tanking, but just arent *as* efficient) and then a few utility pieces like mek gunz to increase my ability to clear transports and kommandos to deny overwatch and provide some early pressure.

The general TAC list I've been iterating on:

(Rokkits whenever a rokkit is an option, power klaws whenever a melee option is present, all free upgrades on everything obviously)

Megaboss+6 MANZ in an 'ard case battlewagon with Follow Me Lads

Nobz + warboss in a trukk

2x20 Boyz with Painboy in each

22x gretchins with zodgrod

3x1 KMK's

2x10 Kommandos

1x Kustom Boosta Blasta

this list has been successful into chaos knights (mix of Towering guys and armigers with double RFBC knight, the T13 knight tyrant with the harpoon and big flamer and a couple of the minigun+claw wardogs) and space marines with desolators and the new burna boy copycat marines, and all GD daemons.

There are a few units out there that are indeed just fully fethed up and should not cost what they cost, but also not everybody is going to be planning for an ork tide when they make a TAC list. The horde setup with tons of durable OC and a few big nasty piece removal hammers really heavily counters the 'few big vehicle' list setup as well as performing well into people who prepare for a lot of heavy vehicle opposition.


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I will say with the objective securing boyz squads I'm heavily on the fence about whether I want to have character support at all at the end of the day. The main reason I stick in the painboyz is that 'being more durable than my opponent expects' has proven to be highly highly useful.

Like, in my game against the space marines with the desolators, he declared one of my 20-blocks as the target for his Oaths, but didnt actually move most of his units into LOS of the unit because he was just like "every desolator is getting +4 blast shots, that squad is just going to cease to be" and thanks to the dok, even with the oaths rerolls he took down a little over half. Squads of 20 boyz on their own are probably a hair more mathematically efficient because just more bodies but I like the concentration of durability that the dok gives you.

Forceride wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Has gargant some extra rule that allows overwatch? Firing deck only applies in own shooting phase so overwatch not usable

You are correct good sir. Overwatch specifically states the shooting phase. As raw, the transports cannot shoot the weapons of it's occupants outside that phase, and it has no rules specifying otherwise... I suspect this is one of the many oversights from GW.


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There is a silver lining though of the interaction between towering and firing deck.

Firing deck says "selected to shoot in the shooting phase" and the bullet point quick ref says "whenever this transport is selected to shoot"

overwatch says "your unit can shoot that enemy as if it were your shooting phase"


i see no conflict here - your firing deck vehicle works in overwatch because its shooting as if it were your shooting phase.

terennNash wrote:

Forceride wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Has gargant some extra rule that allows overwatch? Firing deck only applies in own shooting phase so overwatch not usable

You are correct good sir. Overwatch specifically states the shooting phase. As raw, the transports cannot shoot the weapons of it's occupants outside that phase, and it has no rules specifying otherwise... I suspect this is one of the many oversights from GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is a silver lining though of the interaction between towering and firing deck.

Firing deck says "selected to shoot in the shooting phase" and the bullet point quick ref says "whenever this transport is selected to shoot"

overwatch says "your unit can shoot that enemy as if it were your shooting phase"


i see no conflict here - your firing deck vehicle works in overwatch because its shooting as if it were your shooting phase.

Because firing deck says "in the shooting phase" and overwatch is triggered in the movement phase or the charge phase, I believe it falls under the out of phase rules.

I understand that the example they use in the text is a whirlwinds ability that says "in YOUR shooting phase" but the commentary text is very clear

"When using out-of-phase rules to
perform an action as if it were one of your phases, you cannot use
any other rules that are normally triggered in that phase"

Data from the first week of tourneys!

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/14jb1hj/meta_monday_62623_first_gts_and_rtts_of_10th/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Orks having a pretty strong showing with the 7th best win rate in GT’s at 53%. One of our toughest matchups in knights unfortunately seems to be dominating right now too. Garg squig maybe will be the answer we need to help in that matchup?