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p5freak wrote: If the chain lord does 20 damage, and 10 MW in addition, he can die, even if he is the warlord. His job is done.
If he manages to do all that in one turn, that would be great. But there would be no CP left for any other strats, no warlord, no buffs for anyone else. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as you'd still have 1900 points of army left on the table.
Edit: Also you give away victory points, which isn't a totally minor thing#
Edit 2: Also, while it means you have one kamikaze chainlord, might it not be better to have a Flawless-Disco or Flawless-Prince, and just a standard thunderLord? Would seem to be much less CP intensive, more reliable, and still almost as powerful? (This is assuming you're already taking a prince and a lord, so the points are the same. And EVERYONE takes a prince.)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/15 00:52:25
I've decided to start a World Eaters force and was looking for some advice to maximize its effectiveness. Other than Khorne Berzerkers, what units should I be looking to field? I'm thinking maybe fire support? Or perhaps demon engines. I'm also unsure how many berzerkers I ought to field.
Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Kharneth wrote: I've decided to start a World Eaters force and was looking for some advice to maximize its effectiveness. Other than Khorne Berzerkers, what units should I be looking to field? I'm thinking maybe fire support? Or perhaps demon engines. I'm also unsure how many berzerkers I ought to field.
All of them.
Buy a pile of berzerkers. Paint them. Put them on the table. Does it look like enough? No? Buy some more. Paint them.
Does it look like enough now? Yes?
You're wrong. Buy some more.
If you have enough points for cultists, then you haven't painted enough berzerkers.
Kharneth wrote: I've decided to start a World Eaters force and was looking for some advice to maximize its effectiveness. Other than Khorne Berzerkers, what units should I be looking to field? I'm thinking maybe fire support? Or perhaps demon engines. I'm also unsure how many berzerkers I ought to field.
All of them.
Buy a pile of berzerkers. Paint them. Put them on the table. Does it look like enough? No? Buy some more. Paint them.
Does it look like enough now? Yes?
You're wrong. Buy some more.
If you have enough points for cultists, then you haven't painted enough berzerkers.
More clear advice would be appreciated. For example, put them in rhinos? Take minimal characters? Units of 5 with power axes?
Thanks. It's hard to simply play a game and then buy more since I need an army in order to play a game. How many berzerkers am I looking to buy? I intend to buy them and use them. It makes no sense to just buy a single box and attempt to play with that.
Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Kharneth wrote: I've decided to start a World Eaters force and was looking for some advice to maximize its effectiveness. Other than Khorne Berzerkers, what units should I be looking to field? I'm thinking maybe fire support? Or perhaps demon engines. I'm also unsure how many berzerkers I ought to field.
All of them.
Buy a pile of berzerkers. Paint them. Put them on the table. Does it look like enough? No? Buy some more. Paint them.
Does it look like enough now? Yes?
You're wrong. Buy some more.
If you have enough points for cultists, then you haven't painted enough berzerkers.
More clear advice would be appreciated. For example, put them in rhinos? Take minimal characters? Units of 5 with power axes?
Thanks. It's hard to simply play a game and then buy more since I need an army in order to play a game. How many berzerkers am I looking to buy? I intend to buy them and use them. It makes no sense to just buy a single box and attempt to play with that.
Sorry, I was giving advice from a more... chaotic point of view. Not necessarily all that helpful, I admit.
You'll need a party bus for those berzerkers. They're offensive troops, they aren't too good footslogging or defending. Other stuff can bubblewrap your backline cheaper. Rhinos are the cheap option. One rhino with 9 zerkers and a Champion would be a pretty decent setup, as the wound rerolls will be helpful. But you'll always want to consider target saturation, cos that rhino will get blown up fast. Two rhinos, each with 9 zerkers, one with a Champion and one with an Apostle, might be a fun option. Lots of damage and buffs to go around. Pretty fluffy too. Probably not worth putting a lord or sorcerer in the rhino, as they can transport themselves, so if you're not using champions or apostles then just fill the rhinos with 'zerkers. Termites and Karybdis Claws are also decent options, and they keep you off the table for a turn which might help with survival. More expensive too though, and they're forgeworld so it depends how you feel about those.
But, if forgeworld is ok, and if you're going all out on the Khorne Party Bus... I'd always recommend a Spartan. Fill it with a full squad of 20 'Zerkers, a champion and an apostle. Maybe even throw a Lord in there, why not. Mark it Nurgle, and chase up with a jetpack sorcerer casting Miasma on it, giving you -2 to hit with smoke launchers. Next turn, you hit with 8 lascannons (which can still shoot even when in melee, and the Spartan can eat people), and then attack with ... 240 melee attacks. Give or take.
I mean it's the definition of overkill, as well as having all your skulls in one basket. But.... you're khorne. So.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/15 02:42:38
Kharneth wrote: I've decided to start a World Eaters force and was looking for some advice to maximize its effectiveness. Other than Khorne Berzerkers, what units should I be looking to field? I'm thinking maybe fire support? Or perhaps demon engines. I'm also unsure how many berzerkers I ought to field.
All of them.
Buy a pile of berzerkers. Paint them. Put them on the table. Does it look like enough? No? Buy some more. Paint them.
Does it look like enough now? Yes?
You're wrong. Buy some more.
If you have enough points for cultists, then you haven't painted enough berzerkers.
More clear advice would be appreciated. For example, put them in rhinos? Take minimal characters? Units of 5 with power axes?
Thanks. It's hard to simply play a game and then buy more since I need an army in order to play a game. How many berzerkers am I looking to buy? I intend to buy them and use them. It makes no sense to just buy a single box and attempt to play with that.
Sorry, I was giving advice from a more... chaotic point of view. Not necessarily all that helpful, I admit.
You'll need a party bus for those berzerkers. Rhinos are the cheap option. One rhino with 9 zerkers and a Champion would be a pretty decent setup, as the wound rerolls will be helpful. But you'll always want to consider target saturation, cos that rhino will get blown up fast. Two rhinos, each with 9 zerkers, one with a Champion and one with an Apostle, might be a fun option. Lots of damage and buffs to go around. Pretty fluffy too. Termites and Karybdis Claws are also decent options, and they keep you off the table for a turn which might help with survival. More expensive too though, and they're forgeworld so it depends how you feel about those.
But, if forgeworld is ok, and if you're going all out on the Khorne Party Bus... I'd always recommend a Spartan. Fill it with a full squad of 20 'Zerkers, a champion and an apostle. Maybe even throw a Lord in there, why not. Mark it Nurgle, and chase up with a jetpack sorcerer casting Miasma on it, giving you -2 to hit with smoke launchers. Next turn, you hit with 8 lascannons (which can still shoot even when in melee, and the Spartan can eat people), and then attack with ... 240 melee attacks. Give or take.
I mean it's the definition of overkill, as well as having all your skulls in one basket. But.... you're khorne. So.
I don't understand your advice. I'm not looking for poor advice "because I'm khorne," because I'm not khorne. I'm looking for advice for a functional and effective world eaters force. I use to use the apostle but I'm thinking against it now since it's only buff now must be cast to be used and can't be cast when it is needed most. I also found the character auras to be more restrictive than beneficial, but of course I will need characters.
I've toyed with the idea of putting 3x8 berzerkers in a spartan plus a champion, but never got around to actually buying one and I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea. My friend advised 5 units in rhinos backed by 3 butcher cannon decimators. Frankly, I like the idea of an ocean of berzerkers and would love it if I could fit 8x8 units of berzerkers.
What about a battalion with 6 units of 8 berzerkers with chainaxes and a power axe lead by an exalted champion and chaos lord, then a patrol detachment with 2 units of 8 berzerkers with chain axes and a power axe lead by another exalted champion, all in rhinos. I'd make them twin battalions but I am short the points for another hero.
Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Berserkers are great, but they have a few serious problems, the biggest being they tend to do their job too well. I run mine as world eaters because Karn and they are troops..... no other reason needed. Other chapter tactics would be better on them however (red corsairs / generic renegade being a prime example) because they dont need that extra attack that world eaters gives them, they need better mobility.
How to run them its generally agreed give them a chainsword and a chainaxe. This 1pt upgrade loses your pistol (you were not shooting pistols as beserkers anyways) but lets you put out a lot of nasty cc attacks (Thats 27 axe attacks and 10 chainsword attacks per 5 guy squad when you charge! Remember beserkers get to be nominated twice, but the legion trait only gives them 1 additonal attack per model in the fight phase when they charge, the bonus doesnt stack.... but who cares your 5 guys just did 37 attacks for 85 pts! And thats not counting death to the false emporer!).
So how do you get your blenders into cc? 3 options.
The first is Forgeworld which i can not help you with, i don't have any first hand experience with forge world chaos stuff as our local shop doesnt play forgeworld much.
The next is rhinos/land raiders. Between those 2 i go with rhinos, a 72 pt rhino with an 85 pt beserker squad is going to be 157 pts of serious distraction that your opponent will want to kill immediately if they have ever fought against beserkers before. If not they will learn. And the rhino can pull double duty after dropping the cargo off by soaking up overwatch on a charge.
The final is pick a different legion / on foot. It may sound harsh but switching to a different legion loses you taking them as troops (kinda sucks) and you lose 5 attacks with the chain axes (big deal) but you gain so much more. Beserkers that can advance and charge can move much faster than expected. Or how about beserkers getting a free 9" movement t1 and are -1 to hit outside 12" (Alpha legion, how I love you.... your cheap relic, your amazing legion and warlord trait... your the whole package my dear!)? Dont forget casting warp time on them as well as another boost.
I don't understand your advice. I'm not looking for poor advice "because I'm khorne," because I'm not khorne. I'm looking for advice for a functional and effective world eaters force. I use to use the apostle but I'm thinking against it now since it's only buff now must be cast to be used and can't be cast when it is needed most. I also found the character auras to be more restrictive than beneficial, but of course I will need characters.
I've toyed with the idea of putting 3x8 berzerkers in a spartan plus a champion, but never got around to actually buying one and I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea. My friend advised 5 units in rhinos backed by 3 butcher cannon decimators. Frankly, I like the idea of an ocean of berzerkers and would love it if I could fit 8x8 units of berzerkers.
What about a battalion with 6 units of 8 berzerkers with chainaxes and a power axe lead by an exalted champion and chaos lord, then a patrol detachment with 2 units of 8 berzerkers with chain axes and a power axe lead by another exalted champion, all in rhinos. I'd make them twin battalions but I am short the points for another hero.
Sorry, I tend to take a more light hearted view of this game, but i'll admit not everyone feels the same way.
Back to the actual advice - The spartan idea is a fun one, but I agree it's not necessarily the best. It's an expensive basket, and it can be pretty easily killed even though it's extremely powerful. Knights and such are an annoyance, but unfortunately they are played a lot.
5 units in rhinos is a good one, I wasn't sure quite how many you were considering getting which is why I only mentioned having two. You'd want a minimum of 2 or 3 rhinos of berzerkers, but 5 of them would be great. A lot of them would end up getting into the fight.
I'd actually recommend butcher cannon Deredeos instead, they're more point efficient as a gun platform, and you're not using anything that will help with the 'daemon' part of the decimator anyway. If you can swing the points for a HQ, then fielding a Lord + 3x Deredeos in an Alpha Legion spearhead is pretty much the best option you can get. But if you can't afford extra detachments, they'll still do a lot of work for you.
Edit: Also, if you're taking 5 units of 'zerkers, you might as well up it to 6 and make two Battallions out of it. Lots of CP for fight-twice stratagems.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/15 03:20:55
If you want some success with Berserkers, you need to put them in Rhinos because they are fragile and easily killed. And you also need some other stuff that can clear away chaff. If not, against any list that has chaff, you will be charging your zerkers into the chaff, and then having them shot off the board the following turn.
If your zerkers are the chaff clearers, then you have to disembark them and send them out in waves instead of all at once.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/15 03:29:46
Eldenfirefly wrote: If you want some success with Berserkers, you need to put them in Rhinos because they are fragile and easily killed. And you also need some other stuff that can clear away chaff. If not, against any list that has chaff, you will be charging your zerkers into the chaff, and then having them shot off the board the following turn.
If your zerkers are the chaff clearers, then you have to disembark them and send them out in waves instead of all at once.
This is a very good point. 'zerkers are -too good- at killing things. They will charge something, murder it, and then be left in the open with their thumbs up their khorne-holes while everyone around them blows them away. Fitting two MSU 5-man squads into a rhino is probably better for chaff clearing. No morale issues, and enough attacks to do the damage needed. And you can take on two enemies in a turn. I think this is what generally is advised. Depends on your enemy though I guess.
Niiru wrote: This is a very good point. 'zerkers are -too good- at killing things. They will charge something, murder it, and then be left in the open with their thumbs up their khorne-holes while everyone around them blows them away. Fitting two MSU 5-man squads into a rhino is probably better for chaff clearing. No morale issues, and enough attacks to do the damage needed. And you can take on two enemies in a turn. I think this is what generally is advised. Depends on your enemy though I guess.
Yes, thats their fate, kill something and die afterwards. They are glass cannons. I suggest watching some videos about advanced tactics in the charge and fight phase. They are in this playlist.
If he manages to do all that in one turn, that would be great. But there would be no CP left for any other strats, no warlord, no buffs for anyone else. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as you'd still have 1900 points of army left on the table.
A chainlord isnt really CP hungry. Its one for votlw and maybe three more for fight again. You can use a chaos lord on juggernaut of khorne. This makes him more resilient, and give you more attacks, but you cant play votlw on him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/15 05:47:25
Buying models at the moment and just wanted to make sure I haven't missed anything. The Kytan is painted now (love that model) so is the only thing 100pc in the list atm.
Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 160pts]: 2. Indomitable, Autocannon, Mark of Slaanesh, Warlord
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector
Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 160pts]: Autocannon, Mark of Slaanesh, Master of the Soulforges, Mecha-serpents
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector
+ Troops +
Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun
Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun
Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun
I played against almost this exact list 2 weeks ago with my Deathwatch except he had abbadon and some forgefiends and didn't have a second lord discordant.
The guy I played beat me very narrowly on points but I basically wiped his whole army off the board except for abbadon who was hiding. I like the list but you have to really be aggressive with it and get into the enemies face. The guy I played came at me piecemeal and my hellblasters/repulsor/dreads absolutely tore them appart .
It's a scarry list to come up against but needs to be used correctly or it can get be quite easy to shoot up.
Thanks for the feedback. My plan is absolutely to run up the table and engage as soon as possible in cc.
I'm thinking of trying to get more bikes into that unit as a t1 screen clear.
My general idea is to have a lot of very scary and fast cc killing machines running up the board, with all of that I'm confident of t1/2 charges.
Kharneth wrote: I've decided to start a World Eaters force and was looking for some advice to maximize its effectiveness. Other than Khorne Berzerkers, what units should I be looking to field? I'm thinking maybe fire support? Or perhaps demon engines. I'm also unsure how many berzerkers I ought to field.
First question: are you planning pure WE, or are some Daemon allies an option? Karanak and some Flesh Hounds bring DTW coverage, and a Herald with Crimson Crown makes Obliterators interesting (use VotLW and you’ll get extra shots on 5+ to Wound). All of them give charge rerolls to Daemon Engines, making a Maulerfiend & Defiler jamboree (which has access to +2 movement via Warpsmith or Disco) fun. Khorne Daemon Princes are a LOT better taken from the Daemons Codex than the CSM one - harder hitting, more auras, and access to a knight-killer Relic.
General recommendations:
Helbrutes are an okay source of firepower. The regular Codex ones will die easily, but they’re priced fairly accordingly - and when they are being shot, your Rhinos are not, and vice versa. The FW ones bring more reliable firepower and endurance. Tanks are generally not great, with the possible exception of the FW Scorpius. Spartan and Lord of Skulls are workable, especially now Dark Apostles can give them endurance and accuracy buffs. Khârn and the previously mentioned Herald can also give them uncommon buffs.
Dark Apostles can’t be played as they used to be - riding in a rhino with an exalted champion in another rhino. Their Combat buffs need to be activated before the movement phase, so they need boots on the ground. Chaos Lords or Khârn are your party bus accuracy guarantors.
There’s some frightening Overwatch out there, and Warp Talons are back to ‘really good at countering it’ status. Three squads of five in an Outriders with a jump Lord (thunder hammer is my preference) can form a Raptorial Wing, giving them +2 to charge when they arrive. Very interesting synergy with a Crimson Crown Herald who’s just Summoned an Altar of Skulls. Even if there’s not dangerous Overwatch to deny, it’s still a hard enough hitting arrangement to be worth playtesting with some proxies and an agreeable opponent.
Havocs are plain good in general. You don’t need a Legion Trait synergy to leverage four heavy weapons that can sneak around cover and hijack the first shooting phase. Small Heretac squads with a chaincannon are ok midfielders who can contribute to horde clearance and CP farming. Cultists are in an awkward spot, having been price hiked, lost Legion traits, and downscaled, whilst competing with Heretac cannon squads and WE Zerks. A big unit for early screening then Tide of Traitors is still nice to have and worth considering - especially if you’re considering anchoring your line with an invuln aura off a DA or Noctilith.
Don’t forget your Legion Stratagem when Magnus rolls a 14 to Smite you. 2CP have a 75% chance to deny anything
I don't understand your advice. I'm not looking for poor advice "because I'm khorne," because I'm not khorne. I'm looking for advice for a functional and effective world eaters force. I use to use the apostle but I'm thinking against it now since it's only buff now must be cast to be used and can't be cast when it is needed most. I also found the character auras to be more restrictive than beneficial, but of course I will need characters.
I've toyed with the idea of putting 3x8 berzerkers in a spartan plus a champion, but never got around to actually buying one and I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea. My friend advised 5 units in rhinos backed by 3 butcher cannon decimators. Frankly, I like the idea of an ocean of berzerkers and would love it if I could fit 8x8 units of berzerkers.
What about a battalion with 6 units of 8 berzerkers with chainaxes and a power axe lead by an exalted champion and chaos lord, then a patrol detachment with 2 units of 8 berzerkers with chain axes and a power axe lead by another exalted champion, all in rhinos. I'd make them twin battalions but I am short the points for another hero.
Sorry, I tend to take a more light hearted view of this game, but i'll admit not everyone feels the same way.
Back to the actual advice - The spartan idea is a fun one, but I agree it's not necessarily the best. It's an expensive basket, and it can be pretty easily killed even though it's extremely powerful. Knights and such are an annoyance, but unfortunately they are played a lot.
5 units in rhinos is a good one, I wasn't sure quite how many you were considering getting which is why I only mentioned having two. You'd want a minimum of 2 or 3 rhinos of berzerkers, but 5 of them would be great. A lot of them would end up getting into the fight.
I'd actually recommend butcher cannon Deredeos instead, they're more point efficient as a gun platform, and you're not using anything that will help with the 'daemon' part of the decimator anyway. If you can swing the points for a HQ, then fielding a Lord + 3x Deredeos in an Alpha Legion spearhead is pretty much the best option you can get. But if you can't afford extra detachments, they'll still do a lot of work for you.
Edit: Also, if you're taking 5 units of 'zerkers, you might as well up it to 6 and make two Battallions out of it. Lots of CP for fight-twice stratagems.
You said to literally take as many as possible and the minimum troops for a battalion is 3 so I'll definitely be taking 3. So was that real advice or was it just bs exaggerating about the use of berzerkers? I know that they're good, but copy pasting an army of them is unlikely going to be successful. Berzerkers can't deal with everything. Are there any chaos deredeos? The only ones I see look like they're space marines.
If you want some success with Berserkers, you need to put them in Rhinos because they are fragile and easily killed. And you also need some other stuff that can clear away chaff. If not, against any list that has chaff, you will be charging your zerkers into the chaff, and then having them shot off the board the following turn.
If your zerkers are the chaff clearers, then you have to disembark them and send them out in waves instead of all at once.
5-man units of what? Berzerkers or CSM? I do agree that something to clear chaff is important and I'd also need something to take out flyers with.
Anything is on the table, but last time I played about a year ago I found my berzerkers out performing everything else (demon prince, bloodletters, blood slaughterer, etc) so I'm thinking the only other things I include will be fire support. World Eaters and Demons of Khorne only, no other legions, no other marks, absolutely no sorcerers.
It's 1254 points for 5x8 Berzerkers in rhinos, a lord, and an exalted champion, which leaves me roughly 700 points for fire support or more berzerkers. My options seem to be dreadnoughts of various kinds, is that right?
Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne!
I don't understand your advice. I'm not looking for poor advice "because I'm khorne," because I'm not khorne. I'm looking for advice for a functional and effective world eaters force. I use to use the apostle but I'm thinking against it now since it's only buff now must be cast to be used and can't be cast when it is needed most. I also found the character auras to be more restrictive than beneficial, but of course I will need characters.
I've toyed with the idea of putting 3x8 berzerkers in a spartan plus a champion, but never got around to actually buying one and I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea. My friend advised 5 units in rhinos backed by 3 butcher cannon decimators. Frankly, I like the idea of an ocean of berzerkers and would love it if I could fit 8x8 units of berzerkers.
What about a battalion with 6 units of 8 berzerkers with chainaxes and a power axe lead by an exalted champion and chaos lord, then a patrol detachment with 2 units of 8 berzerkers with chain axes and a power axe lead by another exalted champion, all in rhinos. I'd make them twin battalions but I am short the points for another hero.
Sorry, I tend to take a more light hearted view of this game, but i'll admit not everyone feels the same way.
Back to the actual advice - The spartan idea is a fun one, but I agree it's not necessarily the best. It's an expensive basket, and it can be pretty easily killed even though it's extremely powerful. Knights and such are an annoyance, but unfortunately they are played a lot.
5 units in rhinos is a good one, I wasn't sure quite how many you were considering getting which is why I only mentioned having two. You'd want a minimum of 2 or 3 rhinos of berzerkers, but 5 of them would be great. A lot of them would end up getting into the fight.
I'd actually recommend butcher cannon Deredeos instead, they're more point efficient as a gun platform, and you're not using anything that will help with the 'daemon' part of the decimator anyway. If you can swing the points for a HQ, then fielding a Lord + 3x Deredeos in an Alpha Legion spearhead is pretty much the best option you can get. But if you can't afford extra detachments, they'll still do a lot of work for you.
Edit: Also, if you're taking 5 units of 'zerkers, you might as well up it to 6 and make two Battallions out of it. Lots of CP for fight-twice stratagems.
You said to literally take as many as possible and the minimum troops for a battalion is 3 so I'll definitely be taking 3. So was that real advice or was it just bs exaggerating about the use of berzerkers? I know that they're good, but copy pasting an army of them is unlikely going to be successful. Berzerkers can't deal with everything. Are there any chaos deredeos? The only ones I see look like they're space marines.
If you want some success with Berserkers, you need to put them in Rhinos because they are fragile and easily killed. And you also need some other stuff that can clear away chaff. If not, against any list that has chaff, you will be charging your zerkers into the chaff, and then having them shot off the board the following turn.
If your zerkers are the chaff clearers, then you have to disembark them and send them out in waves instead of all at once.
5-man units of what? Berzerkers or CSM? I do agree that something to clear chaff is important and I'd also need something to take out flyers with.
Anything is on the table, but last time I played about a year ago I found my berzerkers out performing everything else (demon prince, bloodletters, blood slaughterer, etc) so I'm thinking the only other things I include will be fire support. World Eaters and Demons of Khorne only, no other legions, no other marks, absolutely no sorcerers.
It's 1254 points for 5x8 Berzerkers in rhinos, a lord, and an exalted champion, which leaves me roughly 700 points for fire support or more berzerkers. My options seem to be dreadnoughts of various kinds, is that right?
700 pts is a lot of options. If your looking to stay mono codex and want fire support i would suggest Kharn, 2 forgefiends with gattlings, and a defiler or venom crawler. Have kharn stand back with the forgefiends giving them reroll all failed hits, sit on a back objective, and earn vp. No one will want to charge 2 forgefiends with kharn babysitting. Defiler can use deamonforged strat to reroll failed hits and wounds. And if these guys are not putting enough pressure onto your opponent may i suggest adding a chaos deamon in? Put a single blood throne with the crown artifact next to the forgefiends and laugh as those 6's to hit generate additional hits and 6's to wound generate additional hits. Its magical. Played something like that at a tournament a few months ago, went 2 and 1 (with my only loss coming at the hands of a tyranid player whos hive tyrant survived karn in cc.... tyrant had 1 wound left and needed to make 3 6's to survive and pulled it off. Cant counter dice rolls sometimes lol). The 2 forgefiends i had were wrecking face in all 3 games.
I don't have much of an opinion regarding which codex, the only stipulation is that it must fit within World Eaters or Khorne and must not be against the spirit of a Khorne-themed army. None of that magic stuff...
I really like the idea of Kharn babysitting a shooting force, giving them rerolls to hit, and not murdering my own guys. I feel like that's unfair to Kharn, but perhaps people will still attempt to charge my gunline anyway? Idk.
So, this is what I'm thinking:
Khorne Lord - Power Axe, Brass Collar (can't find a good artifact)
Khorne Champion - Power Axe
Khorne Champion - Power Axe
5x8 Berzerkers - Chainaxes/swords, Power Axe
x5 Rhinos
x3 Deredeo Dreadnoughts - Butchercannons & Heavy Bolters
I was thinking of splitting them into a battalion and a spearhead. I have 130 points left, which is enough for Kharn, but I fear that my tournaments don't allow special characters so I'd like an alternative as well.
I figured the Deredeos can serve the triple purpose of 1) clearing chaff, 2) gunning down flyers, and 3) popping transports. They are indeed far superior to decimators as they have +1 BS, twin heavy bolters, and an anti-flyer special rule all for merely +37 points. And, I imagine I can shoot the heavy bolters at chaff while I shoot the autocannons at vehicles, unless I can only divide model-by-model and not gun-by-gun.
Does this look promising? I know I'll want some berzerkers so I'm not going to regret buying them, but I worry the deredeos will be a waste of $$$ and I always get very worried when purchasing forge world stuff... but I do love autocannons.
Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Kharn's rerolls is a bit redundant since the dreads hit on a 2+, but he would allow them to retain their rerolls while moving. Instead, I think a Chaos Lord will do fine though I actually think the Lord would do better with the Berzerkers and leave the dreadnoughts to fend for themselves. I also gave my rhinos combi-bolters to help clear chaff.
27 spare points, 40 points of combi-flamers, and 63 points for the greater havoc launchers gives me some room to play with. I have 130 spare points before adding those additions, which would've been Kharn but I'm not sold on his uses. Is there anything else that would be better for those 130 points?
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I feel like a havoc launcher and combi bolter for 8 points is better than a combi flamer for the rhinos, it gives you 4 bolter shots at 24", and D6 shots at 48". For 130 points you can get a havoc squad with two ML, HB and AC. Or a chaos predator. Or two units of 5 CSM for holding objective markers.
Lord allows rerolling 1s and Kharn allows all rerolls, but the guys hit on a 2+ so it's effectively the same. Kharn is overpriced for such a job, though he certainly poses a much greater threat for chargers.
I feel like a havoc launcher and combi bolter for 8 points is better than a combi flamer for the rhinos, it gives you 4 bolter shots at 24", and D6 shots at 48". For 130 points you can get a havoc squad with two ML, HB and AC. Or a chaos predator. Or two units of 5 CSM for holding objective markers.
These rhinos will be advancing and therefore will be unable to shoot bolters or heavy weapons.
I could take a havoc squad with 2 chaincannons and 2 heavy bolters, or be really fluffy and just take 4 heavy bolters, but I kinda feel like greater havoc launchers added the deredeos would be better and I don't really need more dakka I don't think. I already have 24 s8 autocannon shots and 18 heavy bolter shots all hitting on 2+.
I could take 2x5 CSM barebones, but that's so boring! Wouldn't cultists be better anyway? More bodies. If I drop the combi-flamers, I can afford a single unit of marines or cultists while keeping the greater havoc launchers, but I should be able to secure any home-team objectives with the deredeos, no? If anyone is threatening to charge me, I've got plenty of berzerkers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/15 18:21:17
Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne!
p5freak wrote: What about your rhinos after they delivered the zerkers ? A blob of cultists to screen your deredeos isn't a bad idea.
What about them? There are a lot of things that they can do, but sitting around as an 80 pt turret isn't really the best thing they can do. I don't expect them all to survive the race across the board, but you're talking about the last 2 or 3 turns, depending on when the charging happens. They'll be used to charge units to soak up overwatch for the zerkers or to tie up shooty units that they can access. Havoc launchers might be better guns on paper, but I'd need the shots to happen while the berzerkers are still inside and as they're charging out. After the zerkers leave the rhinos, the chaff needs to already be dead and the havoc launchers won't be able to serve that purpose.
I think dropping the combi-flamers, keeping the greater havoc launchers, and adding a 10-man unit of cultists is the way to go, leaving me with 17 points left. Then, I guess, I could add 3 cultists to that unit... or leave them at 10 since I don't know how I'd get another 3 guardsmen.
I feel like a chaos Lord providing rerolls to the butcher cannons wouldn't be as useful as rerolls for a couple berzerker squads, but I'll have to experiment. I don't think I can build a complete screen with it 10-13 cultists anyhow.
Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Here is the thing, other than fluff reasons (which if thats why your taking world eaters enough said, ignore the rest of this post) if your not taking Kharn then whats the real point of making the faction world eaters? 5 beserkers lose 5 attacks on the charge if not world eaters (37 vs 32) but are much more survivable or faster in other legions. The only other thing of note is they are troops vs elites, which can be cool do not get me wrong but is it worth the cp vs other advantages?
Besides kharn is one nasty dude. Until the lord discordant came out he was really one of the few ways to make deamon engines reliable. Now i can see kharn and 3 venom crawlers being super nasty moving up the field. Add a herald of khorne in there with the crown and you have a nasty mobile castle.
