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OK,

I did some searching and saw no clear answer. I also did not want to thread-cromance.

In the Ork codex, I count several cases where the concept of timing of upgrades is encountered:

1) Ork Boyz - The Nob may swap his weapons before the entire mob swaps those weapons away. [GW FAQ]

2) Nobz - A Nob may take any upgrade that leave the Slugga and Choppa, then be upgraded to Painboy. [INAT FAQ]

3) Nobs in either Tankbustas or Kommandos could take any upgrades permitted to regular members and then be upgraded. Any further swaps are contingent on the equipment still remaining.

In 2 of the 3 cases either GW or INAT have used the concept of timing to permit these options. Why would timing not be allowed in case 3?

All of this is avoided by cases where the wording is that the upgrade says "replace all wargear" or "the mob is led by" some upgraded character. So please don't bring those up as counters.

Homer

Homer S wrote:OK,

I did some searching and saw no clear answer. I also did not want to thread-cromance.

In the Ork codex, I count several cases where the concept of timing of upgrades is encountered:

1) Ork Boyz - The Nob may swap his weapons before the entire mob swaps those weapons away. [GW FAQ]

2) Nobz - A Nob may take any upgrade that leave the Slugga and Choppa, then be upgraded to Painboy. [INAT FAQ]

3) Nobs in either Tankbustas or Kommandos could take any upgrades permitted to regular members and then be upgraded. Any further swaps are contingent on the equipment still remaining.

In 2 of the 3 cases either GW or INAT have used the concept of timing to permit these options. Why would timing not be allowed in case 3?

All of this is avoided by cases where the wording is that the upgrade says "replace all wargear" or "the mob is led by" some upgraded character. So please don't bring those up as counters.

Homer

Because neither GW or the Inat has allowed it?

I'm not entirely sure what it is exactly you are wanting to do here...

I'm a little confused as to what you're actually asking. You presented two FAQ statements. Are you asking which is "correct"? Are you asking if you can turn a Kommando/Tankbusta Nob into a Painboy?

Edit: Never mind, after a re-read or two it connected.

Also like Gwar, though, I'm still not really sure what you're going for here.

Sorry about that. My question is "Is case 3 permitted?". The rest is presented to frame case 3 with other, similar, interpretations.

Homer

I think he is asking if a Tankbusta Nob can have a Tankhammer and can a Kommando Nob have a Burna.

In the BOYZ unit, it says any 'ork' may exchnage.

Boyz are Boyz, Nobz are Nobz, Both are Orks.

In the kommandos/tankbustaz it says any 'kommando' may exchange. The profile says the KOMMANDO is the BOY. The Nob is still a Nob. is the Nob a Kommando? He is an ork but it doesn't say ORK.

So the question is can the Kommando be upgraded to have a burna then upgraded to be a Nob?

Even if you can, I don't know why you would want to...

Nobz need PK's, Bosspoles, and not much else.

It is rarely a case of why would you, it is if someone faces you across the table, is it correct per the rules.

I see two sides: 1) No, as it does not say you can 2) Yes, if timing applies, since it does not say that the upgrade to Nob replaces all options.

Homer

Tankhammer Nob on a boarding plank gives you an additional attack which when a single model attacks it is optimizing it. It goves the nob STR10 instead of STR9 his Pk would give on the plank.

Kommando Nob with a burna gives extra attack and you can eek out I4 on the charge which means unlike his Boy counterpart he is striking beakies at the same time.

So it is situational and I can see tactics written around it.

I don't think anyone would complain about it. 'Rule of Cool' would probably kick in.

Interesting, looking at the word "Kommando" there is no apparent distinction between the Nob Kommando or the Boy.

To prevent game implosion I would allow that to occur. A Tank Busta Nod with a tank hammer would add one more attack at S10 from boarding planks I guess. So I could see that.

But I am very flexible in what I would allow in my home. It actually isn't very clear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh you sniped me nkelsh! lol.

Claypool wrote:Even if you can, I don't know why you would want to...

Nobz need PK's, Bosspoles, and not much else.

Although I normally agree with this, depending on what the mob+nob are going after, being able to take a burna instead of a PK would be pretty awesome. Being able to go in I order as well as having a str5 power weapon on the charge would be pretty fun.

But again, in pretty much all cases I agree, the PK would win out

And by I order you mean last right? Even if you go at the same time as MEQ's (and only if you charge), PK's win out over burnas every time.

Like I said, most the time a PK would win out over having a power weapon. Sure even if the nob went at the same time as a SM, your still loosing boyz just like you would with a PK.

Slower opponents was more what I was thinking. Yes I know there isnt many out there, but there is some that are slower then Orks

Yeah, the PK is very worth it, you can't pass up an opportunity for 10 S8+ attacks in a tankbusta mob (2x tankhammers AND a PK)

And in case 3, I belive it is a no. I see it as all upgrades actually happen at the same time, but the BOY->NOB upgrade has priority. In the same way, the Kommando->nob upgrade has priority over the burna/rokkit upgrades, so he wouldn't be able to get a burna.

The power klaw is really, one of the big factors that make Orks such a head crusher army to play. They have arguably the best point for point troop, have lots of bodies, AND basically every mob can take a PK in it somewhere. Insta-killing alot of minis on the charge, ignoring armor saves as well as being able to pop alot of tanks is just awesome.

Thats why I ALWAYS tell new Ork players to always, always, ALWAYS take a PK in your mobs

Not that it answers the question (production of model not equal to legal model) - but GW produce a Nob model with Powerklaw and Big Shoota - which (unless its a relic of an older codex) is only achievable by upgrading a regular boy with a Big Shoota...

Arakasi wrote:Not that it answers the question (production of model not equal to legal model) - but GW produce a Nob model with Powerklaw and Big Shoota - which (unless its a relic of an older codex) is only achievable by upgrading a regular boy with a Big Shoota...

No, it isn't. Read the ork codex, Read the Army list, and tell us what it says for the Big Shoota Option please.

I think you will find that what you claim is incorrect good sir.

The Nob in an Ork Boyz mob is not a good example, as the rule for "heavy" weapons states Ork.

Homer

Gwar! wrote:

Arakasi wrote:Not that it answers the question (production of model not equal to legal model) - but GW produce a Nob model with Powerklaw and Big Shoota - which (unless its a relic of an older codex) is only achievable by upgrading a regular boy with a Big Shoota...

No, it isn't. Read the ork codex, Read the Army list, and tell us what it says for the Big Shoota Option please.

I think you will find that what you claim is incorrect good sir.

Unit Composition:
10-30 Ork Boyz

Options:
For every 10 Orks in the mob, one Ork may exchange his slugga or shoota for:
* big shoota +5 points per model

Character:
One Boy may be upgraded to Nob +10 points
He may replace his choppa with one of the following:
* power klaw +25 points

Obvious incorrectness is, um, not obvious - save me from myself Gwar!

Ok, now, I want you to focus carefully on the Big Shoota option. What exactly does it say...

Gwar! wrote:Ok, now, I want you to focus carefully on the Big Shoota option. What exactly does it say...

I hope this isn't a Big Shoota/big shoota thing... (because I just have a tendency to like to capitalise my weapon names!)

Assuming not, lets see if I have the correct line:
For every 10 Orks in the mob, one Ork may exchange his slugga or shoota for:

...and I'm still not seeing it - unless Nob not equal to Ork *and* the line above has to remain true at all times...

More help/hints needed Gwar!

Well, is Nob spelled the same as Ork?

That's kind of a hint!

Both Nobz and Boyz are orks, so you can upgrade one to a Nob and then take a Big Shoota.

Gwar! wrote:Well, is Nob spelled the same as Ork?

That's kind of a hint!

Both Nobz and Boyz are orks, so you can upgrade one to a Nob and then take a Big Shoota.

For a second I thought this was going to come back on topic... So - the issue you have with my statement is the use of the word "only"

Yes, pretty much. Because it implies that having a Boyz Nob with a Big Shoota somehow means other Nobz can do the same (when they may or may not be able too).