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 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
My issue is the T8. as an Ork player I am trying to figure out how to deal with T8. (and 9 when I face bugs)

Orks have problems. That doesn't make Wraithlords any tougher to kill by IG, DE, Tau, or every Marine color of the rainbow.

I play orks though, so I am just suppose to have these things walk all over my army for the next 6+ months while I wait for a new codex ?

Ally with Necrons/Tau/Guard. Then smash it's face in.

 pretre wrote:
Harlequins will be exactly the same as the DE codex, almost guaranteed.

Unless they release a subcodex for an all Harlie army!

Don't mind me... just wishlisting...

I don't understand the consensus that some are laughing at T8 and W6. It's like it isn't even getting a save in these instances. If the 3++ is an upgrade or true, then that entire perspective is quite moot. This isn't even factoring Fortune, cover saves, etc. Makes a BIG difference, after all.

Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

I have no idea...

I'd throw my trukk boyz at 'em. Tie them up for most of the game...

That's how you play 'em.

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

Wraithlords had 3 wounds, no invul. were slow and had 1 or 2 fearsome not so fearsome guns.

And 2 attacks in melee.

Riptide has 3, WK will most likely have more at STR 10

It would be hard for Orks to catch it since he's going to be Jump/Jet Pack. Premeasuring can go a long way in ensuring that Boyz, let alone in Trukks/Battlewagons, won't be able to charge you.

CleverAntics wrote:
I don't understand the consensus that some are laughing at T8 and W6. It's like it isn't even getting a save in these instances. If the 3++ is an upgrade or true, then that entire perspective is quite moot. This isn't even factoring Fortune, cover saves, etc. Makes a BIG difference, after all.

I thought it only had a 5+ invulnerable save. If they gave it a 3+ invulnerable that would be excessive. Also by the same token, fortune only works if you get it off. I think that it's a really cool model. I just don't see it being around for the duration of the game.

 whembly wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

I have no idea...

I'd throw my trukk boyz at 'em. Tie them up for most of the game...

That's how you play 'em.

Trukk boyz assault, WK goes first kills 2-3. Nob maybe does a wound. Orks loos combat by 1-2 and are no longer fearless. They hold, next turn 2-3 more die, loose combate not test on a 6-7 flee get run down.

Oh and it is a MC so making Fear checks or hit on 6's ( I think that is the fear rule)

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

Wraithlords had 3 wounds, no invul. were slow and had 1 or 2 fearsome not so fearsome guns.

And 2 attacks in melee.

Riptide has 3, WK will most likely have more at STR 10

Wraithlords are S10 are they not?

Ooops
Double post FTL.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
My issue is the T8. as an Ork player I am trying to figure out how to deal with T8. (and 9 when I face bugs)

Orks have problems. That doesn't make Wraithlords any tougher to kill by IG, DE, Tau, or every Marine color of the rainbow.

I play orks though, so I am just suppose to have these things walk all over my army for the next 6+ months while I wait for a new codex ?

Handle it in proper Orky fashion- get inventive.
Shokk Attack guns, MANZ squads, swamping the thing with Loota shots, crush it with Deffrollas or the good old Biker Warboss, if you really must fight it.

Ideally, you'd tarpit it with a swath of boyz, and wipe the floor with the rest of the panzees.

MANZ, though, are just downright unfair if they hit Wraithlords. Toss a few in a Battlewagon. You won't be disappointed.

Nocturnus wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

Wraithlords had 3 wounds, no invul. were slow and had 1 or 2 fearsome not so fearsome guns.

And 2 attacks in melee.

Riptide has 3, WK will most likely have more at STR 10

Wraithlords are S10 are they not?

Yes, but only 2 attacks and have no invul and 3 wounds.
Not to mention now they can get wounds healed and fortune with an invul.

 lordofthegophers wrote:
Tau Sniper Drone Teams with an Ethereal will absolutely rape a Wraith-heavy army within 24".

On average rolls, within 24", a Sniper Drone Team with an Ethereal will kill a Wraithknight in one turn of shooting.

This could be very problematic with the Wraithknight's Lance weapons having 24" range...

How many competitive lists have you seen that max out on Sniper Drones when most people take a full unit of Broadsides and Hammerheads?

If anything, Kroot are the ones to worry about. 7pts for a Sniper with BS3 that can be affected by Markerlights.
Combined with a huge squad size... they will hurt far worse.

I thought it only had a 5+ invulnerable save. If they gave it a 3+ invulnerable that would be excessive. Also by the same token, fortune only works if you get it off. I think that it's a really cool model. I just don't see it being around for the duration of the game.

You may have an option for the 3++, but I don't know. I know that was a rumor, and so is the 5++ from the fellow in Germany, I think; I'd assume 5++, especially if they gave it to the Riptide. But...the Riptide can also boost it to a 3++. Maybe Kelly thought a WK could have access to it, but costs a pretty penny?

The problem is that not all firepower will be directed at it. You'll have other urgent targets to shoot at and all. Plus, we don't know what other buffing the Psychic Powers of Eldar do either, so that will make a big difference. Maybe it can get a 3++ from that? Hard to tell. I enjoy speculation, but it also makes it harder to wait...

Most MCs never last. The only one I've seen that does is the GuO and the LoC. I like the model too, and will certainly be using it. I have a feeling it will have a place, and this is without knowing abilities, etc.

I hope I'm right, but even the little leaks so far seem to indicate toward considerably strong survivability potential. We'll see.

A unit of Grey Knights terminators could be funny as well. All you need is a wound and a passed psychic test.... /dead Wraithknight.

Provided they can weather through 6 S6 AP2 blasts, given if that is true from the Suncannon.

I wouldn't think people would let the WK be assaulted that easy. GKs have problems making it across the board anyway from my experience too.

Not to say it won't happen, but...not as often as one would like to think.

 Kirasu wrote:
I seriously don't understand what the problem is with T8.. It seems to be always related to "my S3/4 guys can't hurt a wraithlord so it must be OP". Toughness 8 in armor value is ONLY AV11/12 so it is no tougher than a dreadnought. Do you charge boyz at dreadnoughts knowing only the nob can damage it?

I bet you do..because the nob has power claw striking at S8/9 so it may TAKE a few rounds but its no different than hurting a walker (granted walkers suck in 6th anyway, but thats not the MC's fault). Main difference is people think they should be able to damage everything with a toughness value with any unit in their army.

Not really that close of a comparison. You wouldn't have to charge the Dreadnought with boyz because you would probably kill it with Lootas. Any one unsaved hit could possibly blow the thing up, and it only has 3 HP, where you would need several more unsaved wounds on a T8 MC. And the WK probably has a better save than the cover the walker may get.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:
don't play eldar

I don't have a choice if I go to tournaments.

Seems it is just our turn for this. Orks have an older codex. Thankfully not as old as the DE one was before theirs got updated. It can still beat some armies, but then again those ones probably lose alot at tournaments also. Our best solution to everything is just Ghazghkull. He would probably tear the WK a new one, but he would probably never get close.

I have come to think that Nobz and Ghaz should not even charge accross the board. Keep the squad somewhat small to save points and hold them back to counter charge. Then take a really shooty army may be the best bet. Maybe put Ghaz with the Lootas to give leadership and 2+. Then use Dakka Jets and outflanking Deffkoptas to try and get at the stuff that hides from the lootas.

Keeping Ghaz back is to keep him there to defend the stuff that the WK would try to go after.

CleverAntics wrote:
Provided they can weather through 6 S6 AP2 blasts, given if that is true from the Suncannon.

I wouldn't think people would let the WK be assaulted that easy. GKs have problems making it across the board anyway from my experience too.

Not to say it won't happen, but...not as often as one would like to think.

Land Raider Crusader says "What?" All joking aside. I agree getting into cc will be the trick. I wonder if they will give it some rule to avoid tarpits.

Land Raider Crusader says "What?" All joking aside. I agree getting into cc will be the trick. I wonder if they will give it some rule to avoid tarpits.

Lol. I sympathize with the poor LRC. Too many times have I one-shotted it with Meltaguns or a MC from Daemons. I haven't seen a Land Raider variant in ages after a little while watching them blow up in Turn 1 after 6th came out.

I'm more curious about the 4 weapons you can mount on it. It can only shoot 2 as a MC. Makes me wonder if the Shoulder/arm mounts guns as a pair count as 1 weapon, but aren't Twin-Linked? It's why I thought maybe it was a Walker so it shoot all of them.

It's either a Jump/Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, apparently. I'd prefer the latter myself, and apparently there is also a Psychic Power (Quicken?) that boosts a squads speed, which apparently got Wraithblades into combat quickish.

I have heard the idea floated that perhaps the spirit of the pilot's dead twin fires some of the guns, via a special rule.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:
don't play eldar

I don't have a choice if I go to tournaments.

I laughed meniacly at this I am sorry. Maybe I will table you the next time with the WK

Unless it has been said - which I doubt as I've been following this thread religiously - apparently someone squinting at the Wraithguard entry says he can't spot the Wraithsight special rule, so it may be gone.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:


Yes, but only 2 attacks and have no invul and 3 wounds.
Not to mention now they can get wounds healed and fortune with an invul.

Pretty much it has ISND, just at a psychic power level and MUCH more efficient. Meaning my Avatar can only die from 4 unsaved throws at once now....MUAHAHAHAHHAHAAH

I am really excited to see what changes they've made to the Avatar. Of course it means I will have to order a Forgeworld one. I think my GF is going to murder me.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Two Wraithlords also have 6 wounds, Toughness 8, and a 3+ armor save.

In the games I have seen at least two Wraithlords on the table, two wraithlords were dead by the end of turn one 100% of the time. Every single game.

T8 and 3+ isn't tough, not even with 6 wounds. It's fool's gold, and anyone who uses it deserves what they get.

That's odd because my regular Eldar opponent fields 1-2 WL regularly, and they almost always survive until the end of the game. T8/3+ is far more survivable than you are letting on, especially when combined with a blob of T6 WG. Granted, he tends to hug cover and use Fortune, but then, what Eldar army doesn't do this. While Dark Eldar may be able to deal with T8/3+ easily, most armies can't.

I personally am NOT looking forward to facing the Wraith army. T6/3+ Fearless as scoring units with extremely potent guns or power weapons, backed up by multiple T8/3+ with 3-6 wounds and brimming with high strength, Lance, AP1-2 weaponry. Throw in some cheap, fast vypers and jetbikes for extra firepower and manueverability, and you have the makings of a very tough army. And for low armour, horde armies, just switch over to Scatter Lasers on everything.

Nocturnus wrote:
I am really excited to see what changes they've made to the Avatar. Of course it means I will have to order a Forgeworld one. I think my GF is going to murder me.

I think I'm going to have to build the FW Avatar I've had sitting around for years. Then, I get to decide at the beginning of the game which of the three sizes I want to field.

shade1313 wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
I am really excited to see what changes they've made to the Avatar. Of course it means I will have to order a Forgeworld one. I think my GF is going to murder me.

I think I'm going to have to build the FW Avatar I've had sitting around for years. Then, I get to decide at the beginning of the game which of the three sizes I want to field.

LOL! Well played sir!

I still can't get over the size of the Wraith Knight. It just doesn't seem 40k Scale to me.

I wonder if it will have Hit and Run, to avoid getting tied up in melee.

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

WLs can be a problem for any army to deal with, but given their limited armament, they are easily ignored for the most part. Sure, they'll get a few shots off, but the twin linked limitation prevented warwalker-like scatterlaser spam, and thus horde armies could largely work around them.

The same CAN'T be said for the WK. Multiple high strength, low AP blast templates in addition to the more traditional Eldar heavy weapons make it harder to ignore for everybody.

I'm not going to lie. As a necron player, if the Wraithlord gets to keep T8, I'm going to be at least a tad bit disgruntled.