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 pretre wrote:
Dude, just let it go. He has his opinion and is not to be swayed.

Sure, sure. We have established your opinion on the matter.

 Zewrath wrote:

From wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
Yes, yes but I don't give a hoot about the multiple assault crap. As I said it's irrelevant now.
3 Knights will delete 4-6 5-man squads on average per turn. On average you can expect 4 extra drop pods the next round, all of which are incapable of doing jack against the Knights and will die at the same pace as they enter the board, unless they are dropped far away, in which case the Knights will use their turn to easily clean 3-5 drop pods. Fast forward to turn 3 and the Knights will just go around the map and clear up the useless remains of the drop pods / MSU units, while quite possibly holding objectives meanwhile, due to their fast movement
I'm genuinely baffled at how anyone fails to see this.

You are grossly overvaluing knights. Where are you pulling this 4-6 figure from? Do you visualize your opponent placing his marines in opportune positions for you to clear 4-6 a turn? Is the battlefield in your minds eye a barren wasteland devoid of all LOS blocking terrain?

With multiple battle cannons, ap3 rocket launchers and ap3 rending Gatling cannons on squads that the person claims that he will land near the Knights? Is this hard for people? Really?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:
Dude, just let it go. He has his opinion and is not to be swayed.

Except yours don't add up to reality. I already explained how bad your list would fare against 3 Knights with wrap. It gets even worse with 5 Knights lined up. Is it so hard to admit that your precious little list folds against a certain list?

Have you actually played against a 6e drop pod army piloted by a good opponent at a RTT or GT or are you making blind assumptions and spouting "is it really that hard for people to grasp?" ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
And with that we should probably shift the list building debates to the appropriate sub-fourm.

Thanks!

Alright, will not continue this frivolous debate.

From wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Dude, just let it go. He has his opinion and is not to be swayed.

Sure, sure. We have established your opinion on the matter.

I Lol'd.

When is the 'everyone's got a book date' again?

Experiment 626 wrote:

From wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
Yes, yes but I don't give a hoot about the multiple assault crap. As I said it's irrelevant now.
3 Knights will delete 4-6 5-man squads on average per turn. On average you can expect 4 extra drop pods the next round, all of which are incapable of doing jack against the Knights and will die at the same pace as they enter the board, unless they are dropped far away, in which case the Knights will use their turn to easily clean 3-5 drop pods. Fast forward to turn 3 and the Knights will just go around the map and clear up the useless remains of the drop pods / MSU units, while quite possibly holding objectives meanwhile, due to their fast movement
I'm genuinely baffled at how anyone fails to see this.

You are grossly overvaluing knights. Where are you pulling this 4-6 figure from? Do you visualize your opponent placing his marines in opportune positions for you to clear 4-6 a turn? Is the battlefield in your minds eye a barren wasteland devoid of all LOS blocking terrain?

When presenting a hypothetical scenario that involves 'unbeatable army A' vs. the 'lolz actually sucks army B', army 'A' always has perfect positioning & LoS while army 'B' is always in perfect clumped-up formation for maximum damage, and the game is played entirely on Planet Bowling Ball.

1.
5 Knights in line. Clump around 1-2 Knights to even have a chance to focus the firepower needed to kill a Knight with his list. 1 Knight dies. 4 are left and kills the clump and kills the rest of the useless incoming units.

2.
5 Knights in line. Drop pod in front of all Knights so they can't move because "lol tacticz". No Knight dies due to no way to focus fire. Knights kills each of the squads that lands in front of them and assaults the drop pod and kills the rest of the useless incoming units.

3.
5 Knights in line. Deploy drop pods "tacticz" away from Knights and LOS and in a dense urban jungle with huge LOS. Knights spend 1 extra turn on getting in range and starts killing. Meanwhile the SM has no way of focusing fire on the Knight for the entire game. SM can honker down and hope to get lucky draws on the mael cards.

Nope. No scenario is the SM army even remotely good. Not SM in general, mind, just the listed drop pod army of course, because for some reason people are willing to devoid themselves of reality just to make it stand out to be the best list. EVAH!

This actually has me looking at Space Marines for a change, maybe something like this for my inner treadhead

Armoured Task Force

Techmarine – 65 Pts

3 Predators (Las/HB) – 360 Pts
3 Predators (Las/HB) – 360 Pts
3 Predators (Las/HB) – 360 Pts

Sergeant Chronus – 50 Pts

Suppression Force

3 Whirlwinds – 195 Pts
1 Land Speeder – 45 Pts

Anti-air Defence Force

1 Hunter – 70 Pts
3 Stalkers – 225 Pts

GRAND TOTAL: 1,730 Pts

 Zewrath wrote:

3.
5 Knights in line. Deploy drop pods "tacticz" away from Knights and LOS and in a dense urban jungle with huge LOS. Knights spend 1 extra turn on getting in range and starts killing. Meanwhile the SM has no way of focusing fire on the Knight for the entire game. SM can honker down and hope to get lucky draws on the mael cards.

So the answer to my question is a resounding no.

 pretre wrote:

When is the 'everyone's got a book date' again?

Saturday morning GMT is the official release time, I think. Stores in my area are supposed to hold onto them until that time -- which translates into roughly 24 hours from now (Friday afternoon).

Anyways, I love the new Space Marine codex. I've been reading through it, and I think that anyone who likes/plays SM will appreciate the new book.

 pretre wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Yeah... that DropPod list seems uber good.

The only fault I see is lack of decent anti-air.

I'm curious what would a pod list would look like if you could fit in a Storm Wing Auxilliary?

The three Sternguard are 435
The Storm Raven with TLL/TLMM and 2 Stormtalons with Skyhammer are 430.

So easy swap.

Nasty, nasty list man.

:shudder:

To me, that's the TAC army for this edition.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1, OFF TOPIC, ETC. - Alpharius]

 Talys wrote:

 pretre wrote:

When is the 'everyone's got a book date' again?

Saturday morning GMT is the official release time, I think. Stores in my area are supposed to hold onto them until that time -- which translates into roughly 24 hours from now (Friday afternoon).

Anyways, I love the new Space Marine codex. I've been reading through it, and I think that anyone who likes/plays SM will appreciate the new book.

So far, I'm pretty happy with what I see. Updated for 7th, with nothing too OTT.

Got to hold the codex in my hands a brief time.
Big book, I like it, changed my mind and will get the dead tree version.

Confirmed: BT have their crusader squads.

Wow a gazillion unit / formation pages.

Calgar is a monster.

 Talizvar wrote:
Got to hold the codex in my hands a brief time.
Big book, I like it, changed my mind and will get the dead tree version.

Confirmed: BT have their crusader squads.

Wow a gazillion unit / formation pages.

Calgar is a monster.

By dead tree version, do you mean, printed? Or Limited?

I did not buy the limited edition -- if anyone did, do you know what the difference in page count (35 or so pages less) is?

Yea, considering that stalker squad of three, not bad for its points, also the formation of one stalker and one hunter is not a bad price to get your auxiliary in

 Leth wrote:
Yea, considering that stalker squad of three, not bad for its points, also the formation of one stalker and one hunter is not a bad price to get your auxiliary in

That Formation requires at least two Stalkers and a Hunter. You could go all out and go three Stalkers(gaining Ignore Cover) and the Hunter. Shooting 9 Str7 AP4 at FMCs and Flyers at BS5 with Ignores Cover is pretty cool. Not much is going to make it out of that, especially when dogged by the Skyspear as well.

 Zewrath wrote:
utter garbage

you're a bad poster and you should feel bad.

Exault!^

Also the VV special rule (herioc intervention maybe?) Doesn't mesh very well with RG tactics very well. Which makes me sad panda


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The reroll part i mean

So, I am a little confused on how Feel No Pain works. How, exactly, are Iron Hands dudes getting 3+ FNP? I get how they can get a 4+ (the 5+ from the Apothecary, adding in their 1+ to get 4+), but not 3+ (or even 2+). If I put a character with FNP, such as Pedro or Vulkan, with a Command Squad, do they get more than the 5+ they already have?

Clan Bakugan has access to a +1 FNP relic (Gorgon's Chain) and a Warlord Trait on +1 FNP, so it's very possible to have 2+ FNP in a command squad. Hope you have a Vindicare!

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Clan Bakugan has access to a +1 FNP relic (Gorgon's Chain) and a Warlord Trait on +1 FNP, so it's very possible to have 2+ FNP in a command squad. Hope you have a Vindicare!

Ah. Shoot, there goes Pedro + Command Squad = Super Pedro. Oh well.

Vanguards special rule actually brings a lot for many units, especially those comprised of multiple IC's(Think T wolves) they can all join, have multiple targets and not lose the fleet charge bonus as well as the bonus attacks for charging/furious charge. Very useful just hard to bring the unit into a list and keep their points reasonable lol. They really need FNP, but by that point you might as well get Sang Guard or Honor Guard.

It's hard to bite the cost for foot vanguard even with 5 point power weapons. 24 a man vs 25 a man for honor guard, who come with power weapons and 2+ armor, but lose the vv abilities of course.

They could make for a pretty mean multiassault deathstar. Mix in some BA for a jump Libby, jump priest, and maybe Dante, and if they make it to assault, watch out!

 Zewrath wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

From wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
Yes, yes but I don't give a hoot about the multiple assault crap. As I said it's irrelevant now.
3 Knights will delete 4-6 5-man squads on average per turn. On average you can expect 4 extra drop pods the next round, all of which are incapable of doing jack against the Knights and will die at the same pace as they enter the board, unless they are dropped far away, in which case the Knights will use their turn to easily clean 3-5 drop pods. Fast forward to turn 3 and the Knights will just go around the map and clear up the useless remains of the drop pods / MSU units, while quite possibly holding objectives meanwhile, due to their fast movement
I'm genuinely baffled at how anyone fails to see this.

You are grossly overvaluing knights. Where are you pulling this 4-6 figure from? Do you visualize your opponent placing his marines in opportune positions for you to clear 4-6 a turn? Is the battlefield in your minds eye a barren wasteland devoid of all LOS blocking terrain?

When presenting a hypothetical scenario that involves 'unbeatable army A' vs. the 'lolz actually sucks army B', army 'A' always has perfect positioning & LoS while army 'B' is always in perfect clumped-up formation for maximum damage, and the game is played entirely on Planet Bowling Ball.

1.
5 Knights in line. Clump around 1-2 Knights to even have a chance to focus the firepower needed to kill a Knight with his list. 1 Knight dies. 4 are left and kills the clump and kills the rest of the useless incoming units.

2.
5 Knights in line. Drop pod in front of all Knights so they can't move because "lol tacticz". No Knight dies due to no way to focus fire. Knights kills each of the squads that lands in front of them and assaults the drop pod and kills the rest of the useless incoming units.

3.
5 Knights in line. Deploy drop pods "tacticz" away from Knights and LOS and in a dense urban jungle with huge LOS. Knights spend 1 extra turn on getting in range and starts killing. Meanwhile the SM has no way of focusing fire on the Knight for the entire game. SM can honker down and hope to get lucky draws on the mael cards.

Nope. No scenario is the SM army even remotely good. Not SM in general, mind, just the listed drop pod army of course, because for some reason people are willing to devoid themselves of reality just to make it stand out to be the best list. EVAH!

The way i read the second option. And please correct me if i am wrong is that....

You shoot unit 1 and assault unit 2 which isnt allowed unless knights have some rule i am not familiar with. Cause base ruling says you can only charge the unit you shot at.... i dont play with or against them.

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

From wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
Yes, yes but I don't give a hoot about the multiple assault crap. As I said it's irrelevant now.
3 Knights will delete 4-6 5-man squads on average per turn. On average you can expect 4 extra drop pods the next round, all of which are incapable of doing jack against the Knights and will die at the same pace as they enter the board, unless they are dropped far away, in which case the Knights will use their turn to easily clean 3-5 drop pods. Fast forward to turn 3 and the Knights will just go around the map and clear up the useless remains of the drop pods / MSU units, while quite possibly holding objectives meanwhile, due to their fast movement
I'm genuinely baffled at how anyone fails to see this.

You are grossly overvaluing knights. Where are you pulling this 4-6 figure from? Do you visualize your opponent placing his marines in opportune positions for you to clear 4-6 a turn? Is the battlefield in your minds eye a barren wasteland devoid of all LOS blocking terrain?

When presenting a hypothetical scenario that involves 'unbeatable army A' vs. the 'lolz actually sucks army B', army 'A' always has perfect positioning & LoS while army 'B' is always in perfect clumped-up formation for maximum damage, and the game is played entirely on Planet Bowling Ball.

1.
5 Knights in line. Clump around 1-2 Knights to even have a chance to focus the firepower needed to kill a Knight with his list. 1 Knight dies. 4 are left and kills the clump and kills the rest of the useless incoming units.

2.
5 Knights in line. Drop pod in front of all Knights so they can't move because "lol tacticz". No Knight dies due to no way to focus fire. Knights kills each of the squads that lands in front of them and assaults the drop pod and kills the rest of the useless incoming units.

3.
5 Knights in line. Deploy drop pods "tacticz" away from Knights and LOS and in a dense urban jungle with huge LOS. Knights spend 1 extra turn on getting in range and starts killing. Meanwhile the SM has no way of focusing fire on the Knight for the entire game. SM can honker down and hope to get lucky draws on the mael cards.

Nope. No scenario is the SM army even remotely good. Not SM in general, mind, just the listed drop pod army of course, because for some reason people are willing to devoid themselves of reality just to make it stand out to be the best list. EVAH!

The way i read the second option. And please correct me if i am wrong is that....

You shoot unit 1 and assault unit 2 which isnt allowed unless knights have some rule i am not familiar with. Cause base ruling says you can only charge the unit you shot at.... i dont play with or against them.

Well, he needs to shoot the target he charges thats correct. But sinbce its a super heavy it can target more than one target with shooting. So he would just shot a stubber or something against the thing he wants to charge and the rest of the weapons against what he wants to kill with shooting.

Ah. Clear! Thnx

If I had the money, I would run a very fluffy Unbound army using Pedro Kantor and a bunch of Sternguard squads. The fact Pedro makes them ObSec mitigates one of the major drawbacks of Unbound (the biggest being people hate it and ban it). If I could figure out a way to do this without going unbound, I would buy like ten boxes of Sternguard without a thought.

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

From wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
Yes, yes but I don't give a hoot about the multiple assault crap. As I said it's irrelevant now.
3 Knights will delete 4-6 5-man squads on average per turn. On average you can expect 4 extra drop pods the next round, all of which are incapable of doing jack against the Knights and will die at the same pace as they enter the board, unless they are dropped far away, in which case the Knights will use their turn to easily clean 3-5 drop pods. Fast forward to turn 3 and the Knights will just go around the map and clear up the useless remains of the drop pods / MSU units, while quite possibly holding objectives meanwhile, due to their fast movement
I'm genuinely baffled at how anyone fails to see this.

You are grossly overvaluing knights. Where are you pulling this 4-6 figure from? Do you visualize your opponent placing his marines in opportune positions for you to clear 4-6 a turn? Is the battlefield in your minds eye a barren wasteland devoid of all LOS blocking terrain?

When presenting a hypothetical scenario that involves 'unbeatable army A' vs. the 'lolz actually sucks army B', army 'A' always has perfect positioning & LoS while army 'B' is always in perfect clumped-up formation for maximum damage, and the game is played entirely on Planet Bowling Ball.

1.
5 Knights in line. Clump around 1-2 Knights to even have a chance to focus the firepower needed to kill a Knight with his list. 1 Knight dies. 4 are left and kills the clump and kills the rest of the useless incoming units.

2.
5 Knights in line. Drop pod in front of all Knights so they can't move because "lol tacticz". No Knight dies due to no way to focus fire. Knights kills each of the squads that lands in front of them and assaults the drop pod and kills the rest of the useless incoming units.

3.
5 Knights in line. Deploy drop pods "tacticz" away from Knights and LOS and in a dense urban jungle with huge LOS. Knights spend 1 extra turn on getting in range and starts killing. Meanwhile the SM has no way of focusing fire on the Knight for the entire game. SM can honker down and hope to get lucky draws on the mael cards.

Nope. No scenario is the SM army even remotely good. Not SM in general, mind, just the listed drop pod army of course, because for some reason people are willing to devoid themselves of reality just to make it stand out to be the best list. EVAH!

The way i read the second option. And please correct me if i am wrong is that....

You shoot unit 1 and assault unit 2 which isnt allowed unless knights have some rule i am not familiar with. Cause base ruling says you can only charge the unit you shot at.... i dont play with or against them.

Super heavies can fire at multiple targets. Stubber one, battlecannon the other, charge the one you stubbered.

5 Knights could pretty easily kill ten units a turn.

Codex up for preorder (in certain countries)

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Codex-Space-Marines-2015-ENG

Thats quite old news

Where did you hide this time so you missed that, Garthe?

Pfff, too early in the morning

Keep moving, nothing to see here

So if I pre-ordered the special edition, will it come today by post or tomorrow while I'm wanting to play games, lol.

(in the states)

 Revarien wrote:
So if I pre-ordered the special edition, will it come today by post or tomorrow while I'm wanting to play games, lol.

(in the states)

Nope. At least in Germany you had to order last Saturday at the latest to get it delivered to your local GW store for the release date. There should be a disclaimer telling you what preordering for your region entails.