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Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User





I have noticed recently that the way I use dominions differ from the way most posters on the forum use theirs, so I am posting this to ask if I have missed anything about them that makes my way nonviable.

The way I use my dominions is to double them up in the same reppressor, usually having one squad armed with all storm bolters, and the other with all melta/combi melta. I then throw the most expendable squad out of the repressor when they get in range.

While this method leads to each squad having less overall protection compared to each squad having it's own reppressor, I feel that the saving of points is worth it as it allows me to have more models on the field and therefore greater firepower, at least on the first strike.

Granted most of the games I have played in my local area have a low point value, around 900 points, so the rule of three does not serve to limit me that much.

Xykon: All you need is power, in as great a concentration as you can muster, and style. And in a pinch, style can slide. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Yeah, if i did that, that vehicle will be the 1st to be shot at and die. Its super easy to kill a Rhino this edition. its only 11-13 wounds (repressors are 13w Rhinos after all).

   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

 Vandire651 wrote:
I have noticed recently that the way I use dominions differ from the way most posters on the forum use theirs, so I am posting this to ask if I have missed anything about them that makes my way nonviable.

The way I use my dominions is to double them up in the same reppressor, usually having one squad armed with all storm bolters, and the other with all melta/combi melta. I then throw the most expendable squad out of the repressor when they get in range.

While this method leads to each squad having less overall protection compared to each squad having it's own reppressor, I feel that the saving of points is worth it as it allows me to have more models on the field and therefore greater firepower, at least on the first strike.

Granted most of the games I have played in my local area have a low point value, around 900 points, so the rule of three does not serve to limit me that much.
Before the rule of 3 knocked us down and took our lunch money I would run 3 repressors with 6 dominions just like this. Scout them up then drop off guys if you need or shoot whatever 6 best guns you needed.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Utah

That creates a 300 point pinata that all but guarantees Kill More, a BGH point and a Butcher's Bill point when it pops.
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

PuppetSoul wrote:
That creates a 300 point pinata that all but guarantees Kill More, a BGH point and a Butcher's Bill point when it pops.
I ran 3 of those. So 930 in total. This is 8th edition. You can't stop people from killing stuff. You just have to kill more faster.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Utah

 deviantduck wrote:
I ran 3 of those. So 930 in total. This is 8th edition. You can't stop people from killing stuff. You just have to kill more faster.


I'd say I have been very successful on a list centered around the strategy of denying Hold More or allowing more than two points to any secondary objective that isn't Celestine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/13 21:59:17


 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

PuppetSoul wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
I ran 3 of those. So 930 in total. This is 8th edition. You can't stop people from killing stuff. You just have to kill more faster.


I'd say I have been very successful on a list centered around the strategy of denying Hold More or allowing more than two points to any secondary objective that isn't Celestine.
Therein lies the beauty of 40k. You're only doing it wrong if you're not playing the game.

 
   
Made in us
Outraged Witness





 Vandire651 wrote:

The way I use my dominions is to double them up in the same reppressor, usually having one squad armed with all storm bolters, and the other with all melta/combi melta. I then throw the most expendable squad out of the repressor when they get in range.

While this method leads to each squad having less overall protection compared to each squad having it's own reppressor, I feel that the saving of points is worth it as it allows me to have more models on the field and therefore greater firepower, at least on the first strike.



Never thought about doubling up. I like that idea. But I do agree, its going to be even more of a target. Granted the main targets my opponents go after are Repressor with 5 melta, seraphims with 4 meltas, or Celestine. I tend to put all my stormbolters in my BSS, but the concentrated fire power of them all together and being highly mobile, I going to have to try this idea.

I could even see where getting both units out and screening each other (depending on what you want) could be helpful.

One thing that I have added to my SoB army, the Inquisition. Get ya Celestines BFF, Greyfax, another plain Inquistor (sister of silence make a good proxy) and 3 acolytes, throw them in an Immolator and burn/smite the heretics!
   
Made in gb
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Birmingham, UK

Any one seen the new strategem, holy trinity?
1cp and gives a unit +1to wound rolls iff the unit is firing melta, flamer and bolt weapons at the target.
I like it - very fluffy, but messes with my list building as most of my units focus on one specialism.
I'm thinking I might have to give the superior in my melta dom squad a combi flamer. If she fires both bolter and flamer that should unlock the melta doms to wounding knights on 2s

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Yeah i saw it, its fluffy and a nice idea,but i dont think i'm going to use it even once.

I dont mix and match my Melt/Flamers im a very strong believe for 40k each unit is build for a purpose.

SM can split, so mixing a Plasma/ML in them is fine, SoB cant.


   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

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Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Kapitan Montag wrote:
If she fires both bolter and flamer that should unlock the melta doms to wounding knights on 2s
3s - knights are T8.

Contextually speaking such a stratagem would be terrible, as while the bonus is useful it makes players jump through all kinds of hoops that disadvantage their army in return for a bonus that a number of other factions can get unconditionally for 1 CP (Veterans of the long war)
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress





Has to be 3 different models firing each of the trinity; so shooting both the bolt and the combi on the combi bolter doesnt count.
Doesnt stop tou from having a combi flamer on the melta dom squad and throwing a bolter girl in for the benefit and throwing them into an immolator or maxing out the dom squad in a repressor to keep the pill box and have them jump out and pop the strat qhen tou really want something to die.

What about heavy flamer retributors with combi melta superior and a sprinkling on bolter girls? Heavy flamers wounding T8 on 4+ anything <T4 on a 2+ thems a lot of auto hits with healthy wound rolls.

I love this strat. It plays nicely into all my squad loadouts.
Max squads will benefit healthily from this stratagem.>

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/24 11:52:53


 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
I love this strat.
Veterans of the Long War is an incredibly useful strat - I use it all the time when I play chaos.

It's just frustrating that the sisters seem to have inherited such a limited and disadvantageous version of it. I realise it's not as if GW could have made it cheaper than 1CP but chaos get more benefit (bigger guns and better melee) with less drawbacks and any designer who has played the game should have spotted this before they finished writing the stratagem.
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader





Cleveland, Ohio

&@#$ it, what is up with the terrible strats for sisters. This might have been mildly useful back in 4th-5th edition when the best BSS layout was melta/heavy Flamer, but flamers and meltas were some of the better weapons in the game back then. This strat is never going to be used because it's never an optimized build to have all three weapons in the same unit.

If this was a baseline trait that all sisters had, sure, fine, whatever. But there's no way I'm paying a CP for it AND altering my unit builds to an inferior configuration just to trigger it. Exact same thing as the Seraphim hand flamer garbage strat, never gonna be used. At this rate our 'input' for the Sisters Beta Test is going to be 'nope, rewrite it, try again'.

Ok, I feel better now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/24 14:25:03


Sometimes, you just gotta take something cause the model is freakin cool... 
   
Made in ca
Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade






A.T. wrote:
 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
I love this strat.
Veterans of the Long War is an incredibly useful strat - I use it all the time when I play chaos.

It's just frustrating that the sisters seem to have inherited such a limited and disadvantageous version of it. I realise it's not as if GW could have made it cheaper than 1CP but chaos get more benefit (bigger guns and better melee) with less drawbacks and any designer who has played the game should have spotted this before they finished writing the stratagem.


Do we have any reason to suspect that this stratagem will be able to target units in Repressors? If not, I can't imagine using it on anything other than the old style BSS squad sporting a meltagun and flamer. Those are quite cost prohibitive. I don't see myself using the stratagem much, certainly not building units to utilize it. Fluffy sure, but unless we see some point changes, unit changes or otherwise, I don't see it being used much competitively.

A ton of armies and a terrain habit...


 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Depends alot if Melta's change pts cost in CA as well

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

It seems situational, fun, and fluffy. Practical today? No. But who knows after CA drops. Flamers and melta might go down in points for us.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/24 15:41:48


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






MG and MM need a points drop for sure, IDK why a MM is 27pts when a ML is 25pts, double the range, and 2 modes.

MM should be 20pts and assault, MGs need to be 12pts

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Edmonds, WA

It seems Combi-Flamers will be very common in units, especially the 4-Melta Dominions.

Since it's just RANGE that matters for this Stratagem, and not actually having to have the Holy Trinity hat-trick hitting AND wounding AND opponents failing saves, it has some greater utility.

Stick a Multi-Melta at the back of a blob squad and a Flamer at the front and Ye Olde Humble Bolter... ee is wounding Marines on 3+, and Knights on a 5+ at double-tap range.

If there's a Relic that is like a 7th Edition Torrent Flamer or a Special Character with that ability, or an 18" range Flamer Lance or some-such it'll be an auto-include.

Overall, even a +1 to Wound is OK, but the drawbacks of having to be in close range once again clash with the fragility of Sister to return fire. Not sure if it will be worth it. building an army around this Stratagem during list construction.

Silly Thought: Since it just says this works on an "Adepta Sororitas unit", that would include vehicles. If (and it's a BIIIIG if) a vehicle could upgrade a Storm Bolter to a Combi-Melta then the Immolator could make use of it with all the same range. Wounding Marines on 2+ and Knights on a 4+ at 12".

Holy Promethium, Batman!

Wait a sec... It calls out DIFFERENT MODELS in a unit, so the Combi-Weapon dodge won't work.

More uselessness.

Supports my theory that the Sisters Beta Codex is SUPPOSED to suck so that pretty new models will get Un-Sucky rules when they come out at last.
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader





Cleveland, Ohio

Lol your post went over all the stages that went through my brain when I first read the strat.
1: Oh cool we get +1 to wound.
2: Oh wait, it's only if we fire all three different weapons at the Target.
3: Hold on now, the weapons have to be from 3 different models.
4: Do we have to pat our head, rub our belly, hop on one foot and quote shakespear all at the same time too?
5: No thanks, another wasted Strat.

The five stages of Grief for Sisters Strats.

Now maybe if the reward for jumping through the hoops and paying a CP was better then maybe it would be worth it. With how small our individual unit damage output is, a +1 to wound on a single squad just isn't a big bonus. Now if it gave like +1 to hit, +1 to wound, and +1 to AP, then it might be worth readjusting my BSS setups. +1 to wound by itself just won't really have an impact on the battle though, and you should really only be spending CPs on things that will actually affect the overall outcome.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/24 17:34:54


Sometimes, you just gotta take something cause the model is freakin cool... 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






TYep, if combi could work it would be playable, but for a fun/narrative game? sure its cool.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/24 19:30:49


   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

For optimized squads, the Holy Trinity will never see use. For nice fluffy squads, it will be rather nice.

My Witchhunter era Battle Sister Squads of Meltagun plus Heavy Flamer will like it a lot. Target infantry and they are wounding Marines on 3's and 2's (Heavy Flamer). Target transports and they are wounding on 2s (Meltagun) and 4s (Bolters and Heavy Flamer). Not bad. Not bad at all.
   
Made in au
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





The holy trinity could be useful on a unit of seraphim that use an act of faith to get close etc, could give a reason to take two hand flamers. Just was thinking it can only be used on one squad per turn and would give a reason to take two hand flamers over just bare bones or/with two or so inferno pistol's etc. Would make people maybe take two hand flamer's and two inferno's etc, etc.

Sisters will probably get a lot better strats but is what I thought for this one over the obvious dominion move up/multi weapon config or trying to get BSS in range, either units with them mix of weapons and all shoot at the same target etc.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/25 06:16:19


14k Generic Space Marine Chapters
20k Deathwatch
10k Sisters of Battle
3k Inquisition
4k Grey Knights
5k Imperial Guard
4k Harlequins
8k Tau



 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Where is the Melta coming from? The superior cant take melta, and you have to take the pistols in pairs.

   
Made in au
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





 Amishprn86 wrote:
Where is the Melta coming from? The superior cant take melta, and you have to take the pistols in pairs.
The inferno pistols.

EDIT: You would take one squad with 2x inferno pistol's (1 model), 2x hand flamer's (1 model), the Superior would have whatever (prob a plasma pistol and bolt pistol), the rest would have 2x bolt pistols each. I don't see the ambiguity, unless you didn't see the last part of the stratagem that clarifies what is bolt,flame and melta.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/25 10:14:23


14k Generic Space Marine Chapters
20k Deathwatch
10k Sisters of Battle
3k Inquisition
4k Grey Knights
5k Imperial Guard
4k Harlequins
8k Tau



 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






No i was implying I thought you might has thought the superior could or you can get 1 melta.

I fully understand how it works, and i just feel its for fluff play, that isnt bad, its nice to have a couple strats for fun. I just wont be using it (Most likely)


For anyone interested in math based on current SoB rules

Spoiler:

No Re-roll's of 1's, as i did it for Seraphim and they most likely wont be near a Canoness

With how costly inferno pistols are, you can just get another Seraphim for anti-infantry

6 Seraphim with 4 HF's 78pts = 7 dead t3/5+
5 Seraphim with 2HF/2IP 79pts = 6 dead t3/5+

So for infantry its 1 less dead and 1 less Seraphim

Against Rhino

5 Seraphim with 4IP 91pts = 6.67
6 Seraphim with 2HF/2IP 90pts = 5.53

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/25 10:49:47


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Utah

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I fully understand how it works, and i just feel its for fluff play, that isnt bad, its nice to have a couple strats for fun. I just wont be using it (Most likely)


If they give the Superior the option to take a hand flamer instead of the plasma pistol, it can see doing that, and using this strat at a competiive level when it's time for the Seraphim to aloha snackbar.

I just can't see any other functional use for the strat in any combination you would realistically take, unless flamer and melta variants become so cheap that you'd do ridiculous things like quad HF Ret with a combimelta Superior and an ablative wound in a cardboard box. In that scenario, it would be extremely powerful (4d6 of wounding hordes on 2s). That's not points efficient right now, but if they brought HF down to like 10, Repressors down to 90 with base armaments, and multimeltas to around 16, I could definitely see fielding one or two of them: 92 for repressor w/ dual SB, Rets 54 w/ 56 points of weapons so 200 total? I can see it. At its current price of 268 I can't.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Edmonds, WA

Sad thing is, this would be good for combining with the 12" Flamer Pistols while Deepstriking Stratagem previewed earlier, EXCEPT....

The only Melta-type weapons Seraphim (and Superiors) can take are Inferno Pistols, which are only 6" range, and the +1 to Wound won't work without the Melta leg of this Trinity tripod also being in range.

Maybe if a Seraphim Superior could take a Combi-Melta...

But I'm expecting the Beta Codex sisters to have the options only allowed on the ancient models we currently have (No kitbashes for you!) and may even run as far as no Inferno Pistols on Seraphim at all, because there were no official models produced back in the day.

The Open Beta Codex HAS to suck so that the community input from non-Sisters players is relevant and the resulting Shiny New Sisters Codex (with that new model range in plastic to sell! Sell! SELL!) won't suck.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/25 21:14:35


 
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader





Cleveland, Ohio

PuppetSoul wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
I fully understand how it works, and i just feel its for fluff play, that isnt bad, its nice to have a couple strats for fun. I just wont be using it (Most likely)


If they give the Superior the option to take a hand flamer instead of the plasma pistol, it can see doing that, and using this strat at a competiive level when it's time for the Seraphim to aloha snackbar.

I just can't see any other functional use for the strat in any combination you would realistically take, unless flamer and melta variants become so cheap that you'd do ridiculous things like quad HF Ret with a combimelta Superior and an ablative wound in a cardboard box. In that scenario, it would be extremely powerful (4d6 of wounding hordes on 2s). That's not points efficient right now, but if they brought HF down to like 10, Repressors down to 90 with base armaments, and multimeltas to around 16, I could definitely see fielding one or two of them: 92 for repressor w/ dual SB, Rets 54 w/ 56 points of weapons so 200 total? I can see it. At its current price of 268 I can't.


Assuming the Repressor still exists in the new codex. They have been out of production for a while. GWs policy since 8th started has been to only have GW available models in the codex, other legacy stuff sticks with index rules. Sisters might be an exception due to them supposedly getting a whole new model line. But we have no guarantee that the Repressor is even going to be a Codex unit currently.

Sometimes, you just gotta take something cause the model is freakin cool... 
   
 
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