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The Repressor in FW and will likely get an update like the ork FW stuff did to bring them in line with their new Dex even if it doesn't make it in to the CA BETA Dex.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

Assuming the Repressor still exists in the new codex. They have been out of production for a while. GWs policy since 8th started has been to only have GW available models in the codex, other legacy stuff sticks with index rules. Sisters might be an exception due to them supposedly getting a whole new model line. But we have no guarantee that the Repressor is even going to be a Codex unit currently.

While migrating the Repressor towards the BoneBreaker would be good, boosting its melee damage output twenty-fold for a 40% cost increase, I don't actually expect that to happen.

What I do expect to happen though, is for the cost of it to be reduced significantly due to its power level compared to a BoneBreaker: a Repressor is a Rhino you can shoot out of, a BoneBreaker is a Gallant you can shoot out of. They should not be anywhere near the same point cost.

 Vandire651 wrote:
I have noticed recently that the way I use dominions differ from the way most posters on the forum use theirs, so I am posting this to ask if I have missed anything about them that makes my way nonviable.

The way I use my dominions is to double them up in the same reppressor, usually having one squad armed with all storm bolters, and the other with all melta/combi melta. I then throw the most expendable squad out of the repressor when they get in range.

While this method leads to each squad having less overall protection compared to each squad having it's own reppressor, I feel that the saving of points is worth it as it allows me to have more models on the field and therefore greater firepower, at least on the first strike.

Granted most of the games I have played in my local area have a low point value, around 900 points, so the rule of three does not serve to limit me that much.

Because the rule of 3 would mean your second repressor would be a single squad anyway. Which would leave your doubled up repressor with a big neon 'kill me' sign on top of it. Basically in a 2000 point game, thanks to the rule of three, all this setup does is create a very expensive suicide bunker for one of our best units. When we could run more than 3 units of dominions it was an unorthodox buy viable setup, however.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PuppetSoul wrote:

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

Assuming the Repressor still exists in the new codex. They have been out of production for a while. GWs policy since 8th started has been to only have GW available models in the codex, other legacy stuff sticks with index rules. Sisters might be an exception due to them supposedly getting a whole new model line. But we have no guarantee that the Repressor is even going to be a Codex unit currently.

While migrating the Repressor towards the BoneBreaker would be good, boosting its melee damage output twenty-fold for a 40% cost increase, I don't actually expect that to happen.

What I do expect to happen though, is for the cost of it to be reduced significantly due to its power level compared to a BoneBreaker: a Repressor is a Rhino you can shoot out of, a BoneBreaker is a Gallant you can shoot out of. They should not be anywhere near the same point cost.

Can they shoot out of a bonebreaker? While I haven't seen the actual warscroll, battlescribe doesn't have any type of rule on it indicating units could shoot out of a bonebreaker and none of the Ork discussions I could find indicate anything about units shooting out of it either? It seems like it doesn't actually have the open topped rule the normal battlewagon has. I could be wrong though because again, I haven't been able to find the actual warscroll.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kapitan Montag wrote:
Any one seen the new strategem, holy trinity?
1cp and gives a unit +1to wound rolls iff the unit is firing melta, flamer and bolt weapons at the target.
I like it - very fluffy, but messes with my list building as most of my units focus on one specialism.
I'm thinking I might have to give the superior in my melta dom squad a combi flamer. If she fires both bolter and flamer that should unlock the melta doms to wounding knights on 2s

It's bad. Firstly, you have to take a bolter girl also, combi-flamer won't cut it because it says 'other model'. Also it maths out almost exactly the same as just running 5 melta doms, just 4" shorter range. If you were to use the CP on a reroll then the 5 melta squad actually ends up slightly ahead.

Mathematically it's really only viable for Heavy Flamer retributor squads. Even mixed BSS squads will usually get more out of a simple reroll.

ERJAK wrote:

Can they shoot out of a bonebreaker? While I haven't seen the actual warscroll, battlescribe doesn't have any type of rule on it indicating units could shoot out of a bonebreaker and none of the Ork discussions I could find indicate anything about units shooting out of it either? It seems like it doesn't actually have the open topped rule the normal battlewagon has. I could be wrong though because again, I haven't been able to find the actual warscroll.

Correct. It's closed topped as default so T8(rather than T7 open topped battlewagon is) and no shooting from inside.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

PuppetSoul wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I fully understand how it works, and i just feel its for fluff play, that isnt bad, its nice to have a couple strats for fun. I just wont be using it (Most likely)

If they give the Superior the option to take a hand flamer instead of the plasma pistol, it can see doing that, and using this strat at a competiive level when it's time for the Seraphim to aloha snackbar.

I just can't see any other functional use for the strat in any combination you would realistically take, unless flamer and melta variants become so cheap that you'd do ridiculous things like quad HF Ret with a combimelta Superior and an ablative wound in a cardboard box. In that scenario, it would be extremely powerful (4d6 of wounding hordes on 2s). That's not points efficient right now, but if they brought HF down to like 10, Repressors down to 90 with base armaments, and multimeltas to around 16, I could definitely see fielding one or two of them: 92 for repressor w/ dual SB, Rets 54 w/ 56 points of weapons so 200 total? I can see it. At its current price of 268 I can't.

Assuming the Repressor still exists in the new codex. They have been out of production for a while. GWs policy since 8th started has been to only have GW available models in the codex, other legacy stuff sticks with index rules. Sisters might be an exception due to them supposedly getting a whole new model line. But we have no guarantee that the Repressor is even going to be a Codex unit currently.

It's..... ForgeWorld. So I'm 99% certain this new codex with have zero bearing on the current form of the repressor. It might get a points tweak in CA, but it got bumped by 20 last year, so it probably won't happen again.

 deviantduck wrote:
It's..... ForgeWorld. So I'm 99% certain this new codex with have zero bearing on the current form of the repressor. It might get a points tweak in CA, but it got bumped by 20 last year, so it probably won't happen again.

It got bumped prior to Rule of 3, to curb meltaDom bombing. Now that they have disappeared competitively, and Knights are a thing, they wouldn't even have been viable at their previous cost (you would get ~8 meltas split between two Repressors for the cost of a Crusader). If we look at the points reduction of Trukks, we can assume that other cardboard boxes (transports which do not have any legitimate offensive output on their own) will be taking a price cut as well.

Ork FW stuff got a quick update to come in line with the new Dex if that means anything.

I'm all for it. I hope they bring back AoF for vehicles. Double shooting exorcists made them close to worth their points.

 deviantduck wrote:
I'm all for it. I hope they bring back AoF for vehicles. Double shooting exorcists made them close to worth their points.

That's because exorcists have less than half the firepower of their predator counterparts.

It was the same thing for a number of the index vehicles - hence double firing leman russes and buffs to other vehicles. The exorcist is just another index vehicle playing catch-up.

 deviantduck wrote:
I'm all for it. I hope they bring back AoF for vehicles. Double shooting exorcists made them close to worth their points.

While fluffy, it's bad design. AoF are a limited resource that will be balanced around what they can be applied to, and as a result the units which they can be applied to will be balanced around them being omnipresent, so if vehicles regain access to AoF, they will either be absolute garbage when AoF are not rationed to them (current Exorcist), or AoF will be nerfed into the ground. Further it would increase competition for AoF, leaving units which are pretty bad unless they receive AoF (HB Rets, Seraphim) on the bench if those AoF are devoted to artillery platforms.

If AoF remain infantry only, then they only need to balance around infantry, the limited pool does not need to spread as thin, and it would allow you to take a greater number of points (Celestine, an infantry unit, and a stable vehicle firebase) before AoF tax starts to kick in.

PuppetSoul wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
I'm all for it. I hope they bring back AoF for vehicles. Double shooting exorcists made them close to worth their points.

While fluffy, it's bad design. AoF are a limited resource that will be balanced around what they can be applied to, and as a result the units which they can be applied to will be balanced around them being omnipresent, so if vehicles regain access to AoF, they will either be absolute garbage when AoF are not rationed to them (current Exorcist), or AoF will be nerfed into the ground. Further it would increase competition for AoF, leaving units which are pretty bad unless they receive AoF (HB Rets, Seraphim) on the bench if those AoF are devoted to artillery platforms.

If AoF remain infantry only, then they only need to balance around infantry, the limited pool does not need to spread as thin, and it would allow you to take a greater number of points (Celestine, an infantry unit, and a stable vehicle firebase) before AoF tax starts to kick in.

I don't view it in the same light. As long as the units are balanced without the acts of faith, which they should be, and the AoF system doesn't change, I don't see it as an issue. Sure, it's terrible to have 2 AoF a turn and 10 units to use them on, but I'd like more choices. For instance, if my exos and doms are the same threat level, but 1 has AoF to boost it and the other doesn't, then they'll kill the doms first removing the unit with the potential bonus. I like having more tactical choices. I can't remember the last game I played where celestine and the seraphim didn't use all my AoF. Until the seraphim died and then you go, heh, now what gets it?

 deviantduck wrote:
I don't view it in the same light. As long as the units are balanced without the acts of faith, which they should be,

If they are, then the AoF system would need to be nerfed, because you are always going to put the AoF towards the unit that you have the most threat potential with, which can be roughly translated to getting a certain number of free points each turn. Right now AoF aren't a major concern, because unlike soulburst, they can't be used on 300+ point squads.

Acts of Faith break the action economy, which is an exceptionally thin tightrope between being acceptable and overpowered. For Ynnari, it's overpowered because they can use to gain 300+ "free points" every turn of doubleshooting or retreating to safety.

For Sisters, it's currently fine, because most of the units that would want to use it use it to move TO a target, and the most firepower you can consistently get out of one is four heavy bolters or four inferno pistols.

If Exorcists were on par with a LRBC's damage output baseline, then Acts of Faith would absolutely go to them first, and in turn those units would be mindlessly OP: Sisters would be in every list as an allied detachment of Celestine, two Imagifiers, and three Exorcists.

 deviantduck wrote:
I don't see it as an issue. Sure, it's terrible to have 2 AoF a turn and 10 units to use them on, but I'd like more choices. For instance, if my exos and doms are the same threat level, but 1 has AoF to boost it and the other doesn't, then they'll kill the doms first removing the unit with the potential bonus. I like having more tactical choices. I can't remember the last game I played where celestine and the seraphim didn't use all my AoF. Until the seraphim died and then you go, heh, now what gets it?

Your HB Rets, which are the next highest cost unit in your army which can doubleshoot.

It's not rocket science: you are always going to pick whatever unit has the highest "free-points-to-the-face" potential, and the reason you're left with a "now what gets it?" is because the remaining units provide so few free points when they receive the act that it's nearly inconsequential.

That's fine. If my opponent recognizes which pieces of my army to pick apart, does so, and leaves me with only a couple of generic BSS to use the acts on relatively ineffectively, they've outplayed me and they deserve to be rewarded.

I do not need a checklist of units to apply the AoF to in case my opponent can't completely table me on the first turn, and throwing an extra 6d6 LRBC shots across the board (if Exorcists are balanced agaisnt LRs before AoF, and you take 3 Exorcists), and you take a single Imagifier and go first would be absurd.

PuppetSoul wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
I don't view it in the same light. As long as the units are balanced without the acts of faith, which they should be,

If they are, then the AoF system would need to be nerfed, because you are always going to put the AoF towards the unit that you have the most threat potential with, which can be roughly translated to getting a certain number of free points each turn. Right now AoF aren't a major concern, because unlike soulburst, they can't be used on 300+ point squads.

Acts of Faith break the action economy, which is an exceptionally thin tightrope between being acceptable and overpowered. For Ynnari, it's overpowered because they can use to gain 300+ "free points" every turn of doubleshooting or retreating to safety.

For Sisters, it's currently fine, because most of the units that would want to use it use it to move TO a target, and the most firepower you can consistently get out of one is four heavy bolters or four inferno pistols.

If Exorcists were on par with a LRBC's damage output baseline, then Acts of Faith would absolutely go to them first, and in turn those units would be mindlessly OP: Sisters would be in every list as an allied detachment of Celestine, two Imagifiers, and three Exorcists.

 deviantduck wrote:
I don't see it as an issue. Sure, it's terrible to have 2 AoF a turn and 10 units to use them on, but I'd like more choices. For instance, if my exos and doms are the same threat level, but 1 has AoF to boost it and the other doesn't, then they'll kill the doms first removing the unit with the potential bonus. I like having more tactical choices. I can't remember the last game I played where celestine and the seraphim didn't use all my AoF. Until the seraphim died and then you go, heh, now what gets it?

Your HB Rets, which are the next highest cost unit in your army which can doubleshoot.

It's not rocket science: you are always going to pick whatever unit has the highest "free-points-to-the-face" potential, and the reason you're left with a "now what gets it?" is because the remaining units provide so few free points when they receive the act that it's nearly inconsequential.

That's fine. If my opponent recognizes which pieces of my army to pick apart, does so, and leaves me with only a couple of generic BSS to use the acts on relatively ineffectively, they've outplayed me and they deserve to be rewarded.

I do not need a checklist of units to apply the AoF to in case my opponent can't completely table me on the first turn, and throwing an extra 6d6 LRBC shots across the board (if Exorcists are balanced agaisnt LRs before AoF, and you take 3 Exorcists), and you take a single Imagifier and go first would be absurd.

Why would you make the Exorcist double shoot like the LRBC? It has 2 higher rend, that would be insane.

I think you're ignoring the fact that currently imagifiers are ungodly terrible. Being able to use them on vehicles would make them actually worth their points, because as it stands now if you're using one on a unit of Heavy Bolter Retributors, or bringing them for seraphim, you're wasting points AND CP. If they improve imagifiers, then yeah they can't also make AoF usable on Vehicles. As it stands now imagifiers are such doggak that it honestly doesn't make much of a difference. Having 2 only gives you a 75% chance at even getting a single extra AoF off in a turn.

Even your allied detachment is mediocre at best. You're spending 290pts to buff up a handful of tanks...maybe. There's so much variance in that setup that honestly, even doing average damage calcs is largely useless. You'll have turns where you'll do 27 damage and feel like a baller and turns where you blow a bunch of CP and still don't end up doing crap, all for the low low price of a knight Castellan. OH, and any kind of Invul save on a vehicle derails the exorcist pretty hard anyway, so better hope there aren't any of those wandering around. Finally, if you do get that magic first turn and if wasn't enough to cripple them outright, every 6 wounds an exocist takes massively reduces the value of the 290pts you invested to bring them.

Also, movement is much more powerful than you're giving it credit for. Being able to set up a unit of seraphim for big snipes on the first turn can often be far more useful than whatever bit of extra damage an extra Exorcist round would be, while ALSO helping to force your opponent to deal with the units in their face and making it more likely Exorcists go unmolested for turn 2. I once popped a banner of the emperor ascendent in the first turn with a Seraphim unit, which was a more valuable pull than anything I could have gotten double shooting MULTIPLE exorcists.

Basically you seem like you're tunnel visioning really hard on best case scenario, maximum damage output and that's not going to do much for you in games in the real world.

ERJAK wrote:
Why would you make the Exorcist double shoot like the LRBC? It has 2 higher rend, that would be insane.

Exorcists have d6 shots for 2 damage
Predators have d6 damage and 4 shots.

You could double shot it or bump the damage up to a flat 4 per shot and it still wouldn't have the firepower of its strength 9 counterpart. D6 missiles just aren't what they used to be.

ERJAK wrote:

Why would you make the Exorcist double shoot like the LRBC? It has 2 higher rend, that would be insane.

I was using the gun and rules of the LRBC. Not shot volume of LRBC with Exorcist Missiles' statline.

If we assume that double-firing LRBC on a T8 platform for around the same cost is balanced, then giving the Exorcist the LRBC should be fine.

Of course, allowing the LRBC to be double-double shot with Acts of Faith would be ridiculous.

ERJAK wrote:

I think you're ignoring the fact that currently imagifiers are ungodly terrible. Being able to use them on vehicles would make them actually worth their points, because as it stands now if you're using one on a unit of Heavy Bolter Retributors, or bringing them for seraphim, you're wasting points AND CP. If they improve imagifiers, then yeah they can't also make AoF usable on Vehicles. As it stands now imagifiers are such doggak that it honestly doesn't make much of a difference. Having 2 only gives you a 75% chance at even getting a single extra AoF off in a turn.

Your problem with the Imagifier is with what it is being used ON, not with the AoF or the Imagifier itself.

Think of them as being Ynnari psykers that can only cast Word of the Pheonix, but that do it without a repeat-limit or the ability for the opponent to deny, and which manifests on a 7.

If you put them in that context, they're perfectly fine.

Now, you don't have Shining Spears or Dark Reapers to use it ON, so it doesn't seem that impressive, but mechanically it's extremely powerful.

ERJAK wrote:

Even your allied detachment is mediocre at best. You're spending 290pts to buff up a handful of tanks...maybe. There's so much variance in that setup that honestly, even doing average damage calcs is largely useless. You'll have turns where you'll do 27 damage and feel like a baller and turns where you blow a bunch of CP and still don't end up doing crap, all for the low low price of a knight Castellan. OH, and any kind of Invul save on a vehicle derails the exorcist pretty hard anyway, so better hope there aren't any of those wandering around. Finally, if you do get that magic first turn and if wasn't enough to cripple them outright, every 6 wounds an exocist takes massively reduces the value of the 290pts you invested to bring them.

Again assuming that the Exorcist is competitive without AoF being spent on them, then you are paying 80 points to put a 2+, 4+ and 4+ potential AoF triggers into the three Exorcists, while Celestine fuels herself to run off and do Celestine things. Alternatively, instead of Celestine you could take a Canoness with two bolters and have her just stand there, using 125pts to prop up 500ish (assuming that Exorcists are bumped up in cost if they're going to be competitive with Helverins and LRBC Tank Commanders); getting the equivalent of ~350 points for 80, and another ~144 for 45. Ergo, a Canoness, Imag, Imag, Exor, Exor, Exor detachment would cost about 650-700, but be worth ~1100 and therefore be a mandatory ally detachment for Imperium armies.

ERJAK wrote:

Also, movement is much more powerful than you're giving it credit for. Being able to set up a unit of seraphim for big snipes on the first turn can often be far more useful than whatever bit of extra damage an extra Exorcist round would be, while ALSO helping to force your opponent to deal with the units in their face and making it more likely Exorcists go unmolested for turn 2. I once popped a banner of the emperor ascendent in the first turn with a Seraphim unit, which was a more valuable pull than anything I could have gotten double shooting MULTIPLE exorcists.

Basically you seem like you're tunnel visioning really hard on best case scenario, maximum damage output and that's not going to do much for you in games in the real world.

So what you're saying is you used the AoF on the unit with the highest threat potential at the time.

And yes, you have to balance things around their best-case scenario if their best-case scenario is what the average use-case would be in the competitive play.

PuppetSoul wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

Even your allied detachment is mediocre at best. You're spending 290pts to buff up a handful of tanks...maybe. There's so much variance in that setup that honestly, even doing average damage calcs is largely useless. You'll have turns where you'll do 27 damage and feel like a baller and turns where you blow a bunch of CP and still don't end up doing crap, all for the low low price of a knight Castellan. OH, and any kind of Invul save on a vehicle derails the exorcist pretty hard anyway, so better hope there aren't any of those wandering around. Finally, if you do get that magic first turn and if wasn't enough to cripple them outright, every 6 wounds an exocist takes massively reduces the value of the 290pts you invested to bring them.

Again assuming that the Exorcist is competitive without AoF being spent on them, then you are paying 80 points to put a 2+, 4+ and 4+ potential AoF triggers into the three Exorcists, while Celestine fuels herself to run off and do Celestine things. Alternatively, instead of Celestine you could take a Canoness with two bolters and have her just stand there, using 125pts to prop up 500ish (assuming that Exorcists are bumped up in cost if they're going to be competitive with Helverins and LRBC Tank Commanders); getting the equivalent of ~350 points for 80, and another ~144 for 45. Ergo, a Canoness, Imag, Imag, Exor, Exor, Exor detachment would cost about 650-700, but be worth ~1100 and therefore be a mandatory ally detachment for Imperium armies.

I've read this three times and I'm still not following the logic. The exo in its current form is over priced, or under powered, depending on your stance. If you up the damage, and then up the points, you're in the same exact situation. You can't point the exorcist based on the potential of another unit buffing it. It has to be in a vacuum on its own otherwise you end up rendering it useless on its own without the obligatroy force multiplier. On the other hand, the Imagifer needs to be pointed accordingly based on it's own rules, auras, and abilities and how it interacts with other units. To me, 40 points it's a tad high for a 4+. I think it should drop down to 30 or the ability go to 3+. It's also not fair to compare the Exo to a LRBT. They're just too different.

PuppetSoul wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

Why would you make the Exorcist double shoot like the LRBC? It has 2 higher rend, that would be insane.

I was using the gun and rules of the LRBC. Not shot volume of LRBC with Exorcist Missiles' statline.

If we assume that double-firing LRBC on a T8 platform for around the same cost is balanced, then giving the Exorcist the LRBC should be fine.

Of course, allowing the LRBC to be double-double shot with Acts of Faith would be ridiculous.

ERJAK wrote:

I think you're ignoring the fact that currently imagifiers are ungodly terrible. Being able to use them on vehicles would make them actually worth their points, because as it stands now if you're using one on a unit of Heavy Bolter Retributors, or bringing them for seraphim, you're wasting points AND CP. If they improve imagifiers, then yeah they can't also make AoF usable on Vehicles. As it stands now imagifiers are such doggak that it honestly doesn't make much of a difference. Having 2 only gives you a 75% chance at even getting a single extra AoF off in a turn.

Your problem with the Imagifier is with what it is being used ON, not with the AoF or the Imagifier itself.

Think of them as being Ynnari psykers that can only cast Word of the Pheonix, but that do it without a repeat-limit or the ability for the opponent to deny, and which manifests on a 7.

If you put them in that context, they're perfectly fine.

Now, you don't have Shining Spears or Dark Reapers to use it ON, so it doesn't seem that impressive, but mechanically it's extremely powerful.

ERJAK wrote:

Even your allied detachment is mediocre at best. You're spending 290pts to buff up a handful of tanks...maybe. There's so much variance in that setup that honestly, even doing average damage calcs is largely useless. You'll have turns where you'll do 27 damage and feel like a baller and turns where you blow a bunch of CP and still don't end up doing crap, all for the low low price of a knight Castellan. OH, and any kind of Invul save on a vehicle derails the exorcist pretty hard anyway, so better hope there aren't any of those wandering around. Finally, if you do get that magic first turn and if wasn't enough to cripple them outright, every 6 wounds an exocist takes massively reduces the value of the 290pts you invested to bring them.

Again assuming that the Exorcist is competitive without AoF being spent on them, then you are paying 80 points to put a 2+, 4+ and 4+ potential AoF triggers into the three Exorcists, while Celestine fuels herself to run off and do Celestine things. Alternatively, instead of Celestine you could take a Canoness with two bolters and have her just stand there, using 125pts to prop up 500ish (assuming that Exorcists are bumped up in cost if they're going to be competitive with Helverins and LRBC Tank Commanders); getting the equivalent of ~350 points for 80, and another ~144 for 45. Ergo, a Canoness, Imag, Imag, Exor, Exor, Exor detachment would cost about 650-700, but be worth ~1100 and therefore be a mandatory ally detachment for Imperium armies.

ERJAK wrote:

Also, movement is much more powerful than you're giving it credit for. Being able to set up a unit of seraphim for big snipes on the first turn can often be far more useful than whatever bit of extra damage an extra Exorcist round would be, while ALSO helping to force your opponent to deal with the units in their face and making it more likely Exorcists go unmolested for turn 2. I once popped a banner of the emperor ascendent in the first turn with a Seraphim unit, which was a more valuable pull than anything I could have gotten double shooting MULTIPLE exorcists.

Basically you seem like you're tunnel visioning really hard on best case scenario, maximum damage output and that's not going to do much for you in games in the real world.

So what you're saying is you used the AoF on the unit with the highest threat potential at the time.

And yes, you have to balance things around their best-case scenario if their best-case scenario is what the average use-case would be in the competitive play.

Spot on for the most part.

I dont have the energy to type all the numbers anymore.


But Ynnari and AoF are not the same, they are not equal,
AoF is only at the start of the turn, Ynnari is during the turn
AoF has limited units to use them on, limited good units, Ynnari has insane amount of good units to pick
SoB doesnt have DSing units, Ynnari does
SoB units can only be 10(other than BSS being 15), Ynnari can have 20+
SoB good units are still limited be weapon options, 5 at the most, Ynnari can have all models in a unit with special weapons
SoB has 0 Psychic support, Ynnari has many
SoB dont have many key weapons available to them (plasma, Haywire) Ynnari has all and more so (well other than Plasma but their equal is better)
SoB has limited Fly units, Ynnari has full armies worth


IMO SoB and AoF are good, but in context they are no Ynnari, SoB is more about flooding the field and able to do AoF easier and more often, but to less effect, where's Ynnari are less often but more pronounce when they do work.

If Crusaders, Celestian Squads, or another melee unit was actually good in melee, we would have better options.

 deviantduck wrote:
I've read this three times and I'm still not following the logic. The exo in its current form is over priced, or under powered, depending on your stance. If you up the damage, and then up the points, you're in the same exact situation. You can't point the exorcist based on the potential of another unit buffing it. It has to be in a vacuum on its own otherwise you end up rendering it useless on its own without the obligatroy force multiplier. On the other hand, the Imagifer needs to be pointed accordingly based on it's own rules, auras, and abilities and how it interacts with other units. To me, 40 points it's a tad high for a 4+. I think it should drop down to 30 or the ability go to 3+. It's also not fair to compare the Exo to a LRBT. They're just too different.

If we took the word Exorcist, slapped it onto a Helverin, and gave it Adepta Sororitas keyword, we'd have both upped it damage and its point cost, but it would solve the problem.

You can't expect the Exorcist to jump up and rival an LRBT, Helverin or Ravagers' shooting, and stay at 135pts. It's just not going to happen.

Exorcist and LRBT are very similar: both are T8, 3+, with 12 wounds. In the Index, they had similar damage output and cost. It wasn't until Codex IM that LRBT got Grinding Advance and doubled its damage output. If the Exorcist got Grinding Advance, it would operate almost exactly like a LRBT (sans the sponson and hull weapons).

And if that were the case, I would expect the Exorcist to go up to around 150pts.

I think the exorcist from index should have been flat 3dmg.

Doesn't matter what anyone thinks. Chapter approved by now has been printed and shipped to all nations. Or is in the process of, so no rules changes from a few months ago are gunna happen. It will be what it is. Tissue factory or humble prays saying "well it has been so long since a codex, we are blessed" will resound soon...

Chapter Approved Reveals are up, and lookie lookie...

Is that the symbols of the various orders on the left?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Is that the symbols of the various orders on the left?

Yes.

Also there is a rumor circulating that the old school Faith point system is coming back, sort of, the real question will be if the faith abilities are any good or not. It's gone both ways in the past, effective faith powers back in the old Witchhunters Codex, and a laughable farse with the 'White Dwarf Codex' that followed it. So we will see.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Is that the symbols of the various orders on the left?

Yes.

Also there is a rumor circulating that the old school Faith point system is coming back, sort of, the real question will be if the faith abilities are any good or not. It's gone both ways in the past, effective faith powers back in the old Witchhunters Codex, and a laughable farse with the 'White Dwarf Codex' that followed it. So we will see.

They are good now - just don;t scale that well.

In two weeks faith powers will likely be completely different, with a completely different faith system, so doesn't really matter what the current ones are.

So far the only one I've heard of gives +3 to movement, or something like that (it was in French). Situational at best, and very different from the current movement boost we currently enjoy.

it was posted on B&C

New rumors from Faeit/French Wargamer: Listening to French Wargame Studio latest video (in French obviously), they dropped some info (sorry if those are known already).

They'll get Stratagems, Act of Faith (not as good as before but still useful, one example cited was no more double movement, but instead a +3" movement instead) and Chapter Traits.

It was also stated that Acts of Faith will have it's own pool of points/powers (determined by number of units/models) and you can use them as you please using that pool.

Also one Stratagem was hinted that some models/units can use their Flamers when they get deployed (from deepstrike I'd assume). No extra range but just allow them to flame their target on the way down or something.

seems dubious because of what seems like a botched reference to the seraphim strat we've seen previewed already. We'll find out in due course but it could very well be speculation and a combination of unfamiliarity with the faction as it exists at the moment.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/06/6th-dec-faction-focus-sisters-of-battlegw-homepage-post-1/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Assuming points don't change. I have.... 6 or 7 faith points in my 2k. That Storm Bolter stratagem though.

 pretre wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/06/6th-dec-faction-focus-sisters-of-battlegw-homepage-post-1/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Assuming points don't change. I have.... 6 or 7 faith points in my 2k. That Storm Bolter stratagem though.

Looking solid. My 2k Brigade has something like... hm.

2 for FA slots.
1 for HQs + Elites +1 HS slot
1 for other HS slots.
6 for Troops.

So 10? Faith Points. I just hope the "Tests of Faith" roles aren't too punishing. Having to spend one, then roll a 5+, then fail, sucks. I don't recall if the article mentioned whether or not you spend one if the roll fails, but if you do... womp. I saw there's an Army Trait to mitigate that, and I usually bring lots of Imagifiers/Dialoguses, but my girls are Argent Shroud minor order ladies, and the Argent Shroud trait isn't spoiled yet. Ebon Chalice strikes me as the real winner.

I'm giddy.

 pretre wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/06/6th-dec-faction-focus-sisters-of-battlegw-homepage-post-1/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Assuming points don't change. I have.... 6 or 7 faith points in my 2k. That Storm Bolter stratagem though.

this one - mmm nice

Yes. Was just telling my playgroup that's probably where my CP is going. None of the other stratagems are anything other than situational.