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**HQ**
Warboss
pk, bp, cb, cs
-->110

Big Mek
kff, bp
-->90

**Elites**
Lootas x8
-->120

**Troops**
Nobz x5
pk x2, bc x2, ea x5, wb, bp, Trukk
-->235

Boyz x19
Nob, pk
-->149

Boyz x19
Nob, pk
-->149

Gretchin x10
-->30

**Fast attack**
Stormboyz x15
Nob, pk, bp
-->220

Deffkopta
tlr, bs
-->70

Deffkopta
tlr, bs
-->70

**Heavy Support**
Battlewagon
bs x2
-->100

Battlewagon
bs x2
-->100

Big Gunz x3
Kannons
-->60

Puts me just 3 points over 1500 but i play with friends and usually have a 5pts grace limit.

Alternatively i was thinking of swapping out the nobs in a trukk, and replacing them with
Nobz x3
bikes x3, pk, bc x2, bp, wb
-->190

This would let me have 2 5 man squads of lootas, being able to stick a Runtherd in the Big gunz squad to help them stick around a little better and about 20 extra points to upgrade some squads. The nobs would then help counter attack with the wagons or stormboyz, or tank/MC hunt.

HQ's are going in the battlewagons hence no bps on the nobz, other than that pretty self explanatory, lots of orks threats coming out quick. So 5 nobz in a trukk or 3 on bikes ??

Units
Nobz without a painboy are almost entirely worthless. For 20 points per model, you get 2 wounds at, with 'eavy armor, a 4+ armor save, along with lousy leadership that means they break very easily if they lose combat (and they will. They're not as 'ard as you think without the PB).

Suggestions:
1) For 235 points, you can get a squad of 5 meganobz. in a trukk 2+ armor save, universal power claws, and twin-linked shootas. This is far scarier than your squad of nobz - the 2+ armor beats 4+ kold, 5 power claws means MCs just do not want to get near that gak, and on the charge, they're death in iron. No one really wants to take 20 FC PK attacks. Keep them away from LC termies (actually, termies in general, unless they all have Power Fists) and Genestealers, and they'll eat everything near them. For an extra 10 points, you can also pick up combi-skorchas, which lets you abuse allocation rules, and also allows you to take out most of the things that don't fear hordes of PKs (Boyz mobz, gaunts, that sort of crap).


2) For 195 points, you can take a squad of 'ard boyz, and a nob with pk+bp. 12 wounds with 4+ armor save vs. 10, 1 pk vs. 2, more choppa vs. less bc, and higher leadership, at least until the squad gets chopped up. Save 40 points too.


The Warboss doesn't seem pointful. For 110 points, you're more or less getting a Strength 10 pk. While awesome, there's so few things that a STR 10 PK solves that aren't solved by other things. For instance, you could cut the Warboss, and have enough points to add 2 Deff Rollas to your battlewagons (40 points, and makes them relevant against any tank), toss armor plates on your wagons (10 points), take some ammo runts for the big gunz (3x at 9 points), and take an extra meganob, and STILL weigh in at 99 points.

Gretchin require a serious reread on your point. The squad isn't legal - you need 1 runtherd per 10 models. You MUST have 40 points, and a Runtherd.

Deffkoptas also confuse me. There's NO combination of crap that makes em 70 points per. At all. You can get 75 (PK, Bigbomm), but that's worthless. In general, you want to make them 45 point TLR vehicles, and call it a day. I don't think they're especially useful, I'm leaning more towards either kanz (slightly worse chance to hit, but front armor 11 and automatic PKs) or Warbuggies (10 points less for honestly... not much loss, as well as the ability to run them forward and let them wreck in great locations to give you cover saves, if you really need em).

Gretchin require a serious reread on your point. The squad isn't legal - you need 1 runtherd per 10 models. You MUST have 40 points, and a Runtherd.

Good call, did not read that point in the runtherd as a you must have one for every 10 *noted. As for the Warboss, he's an excuse to being able to make the nobs troops for capture points and what not, but do agree with point of him being necessary or not.

The koptas are 70 from 35 +10 rokkits, + 25 from buzzsaw =70, but there usefulness w/ the saws remains to be seen, but i do like the idea of the kans w/rokkits slow considering the army, but then again Big Gunz so humm. Lots of good options as far as the nobz thank you. I'll have a updated list up in a few. thanks much for your comments

deffkoptas with BS and TLR... huh. Didn't think of that. Dunno why, it adds up, but I just can't imagine taking them that way, maybe 1 per squad of 3 or so. 70 points is just so much to lose to a stray missile shot. Also thought that ended up at 65 for some reason (maybe confused it with the 5 point WB rokkits for a sec).

Good luck with da orks!

Buzzsaw-koptas can be brutal if used correctly. Turbo-boost them during your scout move, if your opponent has the first turn they will be fairly protected by a 3+ cover save. If YOU have first turn, you can move them again, then assault a vehicle (or two if there's another one close by - multicharge!), auto-hitting the rear armour with a str 8 Power Klaw a couple of times. Pick your targets well and it can win the game for you.

Are Buzzsaws S7 or S8 on the charge? The unit is base S3 - doubled by the buzzsaw to 6 add +1 for furious charge for S7. Still - a solid unit when used as described by Albatross.

kaiservonhugal wrote:Are Buzzsaws S7 or S8 on the charge? The unit is base S3 - doubled by the buzzsaw to 6 add +1 for furious charge for S7. Still - a solid unit when used as described by Albatross.

I thought Furious Charge added +1 to a 'model's strength characteristic' (haven't got the BGB in front of me, but I think that's how it's written), and that a Power Fist (or in this case, Klaw) doubles the model's 'strength'? Unless I've been playing it wrong? Still, 7's not bad.

Perhaps we need a ruling - where's Gwar when you need him?

I might be mis-judging it - a carry over from 4th edition maybe? S7 with 3 attacks on rear armour 10 isnt bad though.

kaiservonhugal wrote:I might be mis-judging it - a carry over from 4th edition maybe? S7 with 3 attacks on rear armour 10 isnt bad though.

...which is ultimately the point. Buzzsaw-koptas are FAR from useless.

It's STR 7 btw, PFs are very clear on how they work - they double the Unit's strength. Not any strength modifiers. It's 3x2+1, which is obnoxious because it does NOT cause instant death on... pretty much anything relevant.

My exact problem with them isn't that they're terrible btw, it's that if you have a single one, and your opponent tosses a few rockets at it, it's gone. That's a lousy way to lose 70 points. It's actually better in something like a 160 point squad with 3x units, one with a buzz saw. Then you're only losing 45 points to rockets. As I said though, I think Deffkoptas are kind of a meh place for rockets. They're okay sometimes, really bad sometimes. They're not unusable, but I think any player should evaluate where they can get rockets before slotting the koptas in - especially with big gunz.

P.S. With strength 8 PKs, they actually become kind of terrifying in certain respects, as they could do a drive by on most ICs with a very good chance of ending them. That would be worth its weight in gold, but the rules don't work like that.

Here is an updated list

**HQ**
Big Mek
KFF, BP
-->90

**Elites**
Lootas x9
-->135

**Troops**
Boyz x20
Nob, PK, BP
-->160

Boyz x19
Nob, PK
-->149

Boyz x12
Nob, PK, BP, Trukk
-->147

Boyz x12
Nob, PK, BP, Trukk
-->147

Gretchin x10
Runtherd
-->40

**Fast attack**
Strom Boyz x15
Nob, PK, Bp
-->220

Deffkopta
TRL, BS
-->70

Deffkopta
TRL, BS
-->70

**Heavy Support**
Battle wagon
x2 Big shootas
-->100

Battle wagon
x2 Big shootas
-->100

Big Gunz x3
Kannons, Runtherd
-->70

Lots of fast assault with about 63 boyz 4 of them nobz cruzing foward with some decent fire support with some luck from the deffkoptas. I could not figure a way to play nobs with out loosing them as troops, so when in doubt more boyz ! What'cha think ?

My exact problem with them isn't that they're terrible btw, it's that if you have a single one, and your opponent tosses a few rockets at it, it's gone. That's a lousy way to lose 70 points. It's actually better in something like a 160 point squad with 3x units, one with a buzz saw. Then you're only losing 45 points to rockets. As I said though, I think Deffkoptas are kind of a meh place for rockets. They're okay sometimes, really bad sometimes. They're not unusable, but I think any player should evaluate where they can get rockets before slotting the koptas in - especially with big gunz.

Well, the idea is they're not supposed to hang around for very long. Sinking even more points into a single deffkopta unit seems like a bad idea when you consider the fact that if you lose even ONE of them, you're taking a morale check. Not something Ork units want to be doing. By taking say, 2 units of one with a buzzsaw on each and using them for alpha-strikes as I outlined, you're giving yourself a better chance of making your points back. Even if you don't, you can mitigate the loss of the points on your deffkoptas by tying up some of your opponent's big guns, giving your trukk/BWs/footsloggers more time to close with the enemy. This can be a points saving in itself. You can pretty much sneeze at a trukk and it will fall apart - a mob of 12 boyz won't survive very long out in the open.

I took two Deffkoptas with twin linked rokkits and buzzsaws to my weekend tournament. As per previous experience, they can be hit and miss. But when they hit, they *hit*, and when they miss - usually they are distracting fire away from my Trukks....

Game 1 - Lost one on the way in, other took out a Leman Russ. All Trukks made it to the IG lines before two got exploded (too late! )

Game 2 - Again - lost one on the way in - but used up a Sternguards 3 combimelta shots . Other proceeded to destroy their Razorback and then ensure fleeing Marines exited their board edge safely

Game 3 - Did better - One accounted for a Razorback before being melta'd, the other took down a Predator.

I should add - all three above were Dawn of War. Game 1 & 3 were third turn strikes, game 2 second turn - all going first.

Game 4 - MVPs. Destroyed a squadron of 3 War Walkers before (due to the loss of the rest of my army!) lasting 4 turns each against Guardians and Dire Avengers in CC. They were the last remnants of my Orks to be destroyed, the last on a failed difficult terrain test!

Oh - and they are only S7 on the charge, S6 otherwise.

Of course - your experience may vary

I'm feeling good about the koptas in the list, they should be able to take some fire off my trukks/lootas and them being two separate units should help or they take out something big and shiny. But any thoughts on the updated list ? i know it has strayed from the original idea of nobz trukk vs. nobs bikes

I'd lose the Big Gunz, swapping them out for deff-rollas on the battlewagons. I would also find it hard to justify the stormboyz - Warboss maybe? At this point-level it might be a good idea.

Have you got the new Imperial Armour? Zhadsnark Da Rippa looks awesome for 150pts - he's a Biker Warboss with a special buzzsaw which acts like a PK, except he strikes at his normal initiative (which is 4). 5 S10 PK attacks and he doesn't have to attack last? Pretty killy.

Which book is he in?

He's in the new one, IA:8 - Raid on Kastorel-Novem.

Some wicked ork stuff in there.

OME - there's a few things in that list I don't do (2x BS battlewagons), and a few things out that I normally take (I like Deff Rollas), but overall it's solid.

P.S. I don't believe you actually need a runtherd on the big gunz. I don't currently field any (Model availability, I'd love a set of kannons to try them, but just haven't had time to buy/convert any), but I don't remember the grots mob there needing them - which is an odd oversight, if my memory is correct, since fluff is pretty clear that grots run away without "encouragement."

For the kannons / Big Gunz they don't need a runtherd, but my last experience with eldar they easily tanked shocked them off the board with a wave serpent and i would have loved to have a ld 7 at the time. Unless artillery dose not need to roll for ld ?? Keep checking out ebay for the kannons, finally got me hands on a set there and they are worth the 70 little points