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Tried to search a few times for skaven weapon team uses, but cant find any.

All in all, im looking for a few opinions on weapon teams in 8th, and if they even have any use.

Ill simply post the team, my initial thoughts, then you can tear it apart and possibly offer advice lol.



Warpfire thrower - Seems unpredictable even by skaven standards, and its mishap chart is essentially brutal to the skaven player.
However, since 8th has seen the rise of the horde, that flame template will be doing alot of damage if it does hit.
So its a pretty nasty double edged sword.
It will either do massive damage to even elite troops (chosen for example) or it will nuke small areas of your own zone (and the parent unit)


Rattling gun - Allways loved these due to concept, however, they arent as good as they look im guessing.
A very unlikely 21 max shots mean they arent too bad, and no long distance penalty makes them seem better.
But on average, you wont want to roll more than 3 dice for shots.
The mishap chart is alot more forgiving than the thrower though.

Poisoned wind mortar - New to me, and have never used one in my life, but seems pretty nasty.
Being move and fire, while the other 2 are move or fire it has a nice edge.
The decent range also gives it an edge, even though it has a min. distance.
Against large monsters it doesent seem so good since it can only cause a single wound, and being a small blast it wont hit many.
It is however nasty against heavily armoured units. (Steam tank hunter anyone?)

Doom flayer - Again, another thing thats new to me.
This one however seems like a nice break from the usual ranged weapon teams.
Also makes a nice support unit for helping out its parent unit.
Its the cheapest weapon team, it has the best armour, and it can support your units in combat.
I think ill be making one for my stormvermin. (no model in sight?)

Warp grinder - Once again, another new team, however this time, i dont like it.
They seem like not only a waste of points, but a waste of time making them.
There is a high chance it will die along with its parent unit when turning up.
It may even not turn up during the game (on average it should turn up in 3 turns)
The mishap chart is either dead, mostly dead or placed miles away (pretty much dead)
I just dont see a use for it, its putting an expensive unit at high risk for a pretty small chance of getting what you want from it.




So, your thoughts and opinions on it all?
Im sure ive overlooked a few things since im new to 8th, just want an overall idea on how to get the best use from the teams.

I've only been playing some low point games thus far, mostly around 1600. I've only had a chance so far to mess with the ratling gun, warpfire thrower, and poisoned wind mortar. Usually only two weapon teams in these lower point games. Here's my info so far...

Ratling Gun - Interesting weapon for 55 points. Clear benefits are the no minus to hit with over half range, multiple shots, Str 4 and -2 armor. Also you can stand and shoot if charged. Downside is if you roll two dice and don't get 1, 2, or 3 it won't do a whole of good. You still have to roll to hit and if you're not breaking 7 shots...I'm sure you'll see why. I've been ballsy and usually roll three times, once at four. Haven't misfired yet. Usually I like to stick this guy out front and is in my army to take down knights and light cavalry. If he gets charged, no big deal. Only 55 points and will get to stand and shoot, in which case I'll roll at least 3 times. So far a decent choice if you don't know what to take to support your army.

Warpfire Thrower - This team is 70 points for a reason. Str 5, -2 Armor, and D3 wounds is no joke. It'll wound just about everything on 3's and 2's and still benefits from flaming and magical attacks. Once again it can stand and shoot. I've had wonderful luck with mine thus far. I'm very cautious to stick him very close to the parent unit b/c there's a very good chance it'll cause so many wounds for it to panic. He usually is a foot slogger and like the Ratling team, stick him in front of something nasty in the enemy army. Running two warpfires in any army is intimidating.

Poisoned Wind Mortar - I took this guy because I really like the idea. A small blast template, if hit on target, is good stuff with all the big units out there these days. He's a bit price for 65 when its pretty hard for the team to get their points worth, let alone do anything worth while that'll alter the course of the battle. I'm looking to possibly spam the hell outta this unit and see what I can accomplish. Two units of clan rats with mortars and two units of globadiers with mortars. Thinking four blast templates supported by two warp lightning cannons and a doomwheel will kick some a$$. If in conjunction with their parent unit they can use their line of site, awesome ability which'll keep them safe for almost the entire game.

I'm modeling up a doom flayer now and will give it a go. I'm looking to have just one run alongside my Bell unit.

A great tactic I'm finding with the warpfire thrower in particular - take a huge block of slaves so they can get in combat and benefit from the steadfast rule. Move a warpfire thrower up along the side of the combat, generally back about 6-8 inches. Next turn, fire the template into the combat, targetting the enemy unit. The template won't affect your guys and you can set up some of the enemies best units up for serious pain. Of course theres the chance of misfiring, but thats a chance you'll have to take using a warpfire thrower.

Unless there's some rule I've missed the Warp Fire Thower still hits your Slaves. It says randomize hits, which the WFT still inflicts. So you still randomize. Still a very good tactic, just not 100% amazing where you hit 10 guys a turn while the Slaves laugh.

Sadly so. Any hits inflicted are randomized, though I point out to everyone there's nothing in the fore thrower rules preventing you from blasting your slaves in the back, allowing randomized hits on them, and a much longer swath of infantry to shoot at in case you overshoot.

Seems super broken to just plop your warpfire thrower behind the slaves and have at 'er but I can't find anything under fire throwers or the expendable rule that prevents it...

It's not to bad, you're either ditching it's save or keeping the parent unit close and they have to be in CC. It actually removes the randomness of "Oops went to far". If your unit and their unit aren't 10" long, something weird is going on.

I believe it was the last go round on FAQs for Skaven that said template weapons don't randomize - if you shot a unit of jezzails into them or something, then it would randomize. I'll double check though, but it was basically the same as if you shot a catapult at a unit, drifts into combat - it affects the models that it touches.

Mattbranb wrote:I believe it was the last go round on FAQs for Skaven that said template weapons don't randomize - if you shot a unit of jezzails into them or something, then it would randomize. I'll double check though, but it was basically the same as if you shot a catapult at a unit, drifts into combat - it affects the models that it touches.

It goes even farther than that:

"Page 36 – Expendable
Delete the last two sentences."

Note these two Sentences are the ones that tell you to randomize attacks between the two units:

"As combatants are constantly in motion, all successful hits must be randomised between the fighting units (1-3 friend, 4-6 foe). If there are multiple units, further randomise..."

There's nothing in the FAQ that replaces them, you just delete them all together.

I prefer to use only warp fire throwers because I can take plague claw catapults in rare. Theyre defensive weapons generally, much more useful against armies that can ambush you/ have to come to you or if youre playing a gun line

Platuan: so correct me if im wrong, but does this mean i can fire into combat and only hit the enemy now?

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Platuan: so correct me if im wrong, but does this mean i can fire into combat and only hit the enemy now?

That would seem to be how it reads without those two sentences.

Mind that templates can still drift into your slaves, but that's always been true.

Platuan: was only asking since my skaven book isnt here at the moment (lent it to a friend), so i dont have the rule infront of me.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Platuan: was only asking since my skaven book isnt here at the moment (lent it to a friend), so i dont have the rule infront of me.

Ah. Yes, those are the only sentences in the Skaven book covering randomising hits when firing into combats with Slaves. The sentence before those is the sentence that allows firing into the combat to begin with.

So yes, it appears you can fire direct fire weapons into the combat with no fear of hitting your own models.

Thanks again platuan.
Seems like its worth while taking a few small ish slave blocks (30's?) to hold up a combat while i pick apart the unit with jezzails.

That's crazy good. I can't figure out the best uses of it yet, but that is really good. Maybe they weren't finding it effective enough under the old rules.

Not too sure boss.

But i think ive found a nice use for warpfire's now.

Simply tarpit a large unit with slaves, line the thrower up alongside thier unit, open fire and get max hits.



Also, this make jezzails even more effective.
Once again use slaves to hold up a unit while using jezzails to snipe them.
With this one though, you can hunt down units like chaos knights with ease. (all the armour save -'s help to no end)


Since ive got 2,000 of skaven, i may have to start trying some of this out.
Should be pretty amusing to use. (im sure my plague claw will hit the slaves aswell, no big loss)

So wait, in the end if you shoot a warpfire and all that it hits is lets say 19 slaves, would that be 19 hits on whatever is in combat with the slaves?

Zeekill it says it doesn't randomize, sooooo any shooting attack targeted on the enemy unit will always be resolved on the enemy unit. Tis a good day for rats slaves

Right?

Go for as many different guns you can, but have a good foundation of either 2 ratling guns, or two warpfire throwers and add on the newer guns from there. In my opinion, I would rather have 2 ratling guns than warpfire throwers simply because of how random they are! They work well against fodder, and being random is skaven in nature, right?

Just my thoughts.

I like the Throwers because one good shot makes its points back. It also does d3 wounds which really helps because Skaven have few other things for monsters, and they're all in Rare.

Mortars are also good, being able to move and fire means they can take a much more defensive position. I like those a bit more myself, as Skaven also suffer against super elite troops in many builds, so being able to kill them risk free is great.

Also, I don't think you can put the Thrower on your Slaves. The rule says you may target ranged attacks at enemy units engaged in close combat with Slaves. If you drop the template on them, you're not targeting the enemy.

Prince, alot of skaven weapons now work as throwers right? so they dont scatter anymore.
In theory you can drop a template that wont hit the slaves.


Also, in thinking now, things like death globe and brass orb no longer scatter right?
If so, i think i may be taking some fun engineers.


On the weapons teams: Grabbed 2 rattling guns for now as a base.
Will be adding either 2 warpfires and a mort. or vice versa.

May add in a doom flayer aswell for good measure on the vermin.
Also makes something fun to convert

Why would they not scatter?
Stone throwers scatter and i dont think death globes resolve as throw weapons.

Where di I say they didn't scatter? I was answering a question someone posted saying you can shoot on your Slaves and the hits auto-transfer to the enemy, which isn't the case. Also.....2 weapons work like Stone Throwers, 1 Weapon Team. The Flamer is it's own thing, Ratling Gun is it's own thing and the Grinder is it's own thing.

Also, stone throwers scatter, read the rules please.