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 gnome_idea_what wrote:
A couple of Kannons very rarely go awry at that low points. My suggestion would be a mob of shoota boys with a KFF mek as your army's core. Fairly versatile, you get to move around a lot of units, and you can toss in whatever past a certain point value. Alternatively ard boys in a trukk with a Warboss can be really scary on the charge against more elite armies. Also at 400pts skip over PKs, it's often better to just get a rocket warbuggy for objective grabbing and MSU. Orks can be really strong at low point values, you just need to figure out how to kit out your troops.

So no hidden Powerklaw in a unit? I guess at these sizes you'd rather just have four more Boyz huh?

If you can a gorkanaut feels pretty invincible at that level. Very lame but invincible.

It is legal in this format, but would be considered as only having 3HP. That said, spending 250pts for one model, out of 400pts strikes me as not the best in a format where holding multiple objectives or table-quarters will be the goal.

I'm thinking either some Lootas or Mek Guns in the back-field for holding that part of the table while maybe still contributing, and then just some Boyz in Trukks for zipping around and getting into trouble? Can always send the Trukks off on their own to help score IF they happen to survive?

Lootas can objective camp while sniping at any unit on the board (combat patrol usually has smaller board sizes, right?). They die to anything though. When a lot of the armor you'll be facing is 10-11, they could be really strong, now that I think about it.

What you can do is take a KKF BigMek with mega armor and attach him to some Lootas so they can move and shoot while not dying quite as much. Sub KFF for a SAG for more crazy shooting phases. It's a lot of points out of 400, but it could be awesome.

Edit: you don't want the hidden PK because it massively increases the cost of the unit, and because you want your AT (and that PK is a lot out of your AT budget) harder to kill than a single Nob.

If you want to go survivable for low points, then nothing beats mek gunz. A kannon is only 18 points, gives you two grots and an ork missile launcher that has two wounds and a 3+ save. Stick them in ruins and laugh as your opponent cannot kill your t7 grots (as they're artillery).

Now don't get me wrong, as soon as your opponent charges them, they're dead. But for only 18 points per gun, you can secure that objective, and make it REALLY tough to kill when your opponent only has 400 points to bring to the table.

Edit: Also, side note, trukks with reinforced rams can tank shock, so if it does survive to drop off its payload of boyz, enjoy tank shocking your enemies off of objectives for a measly 35 point fast transport.

Yep if they would be only 3 hp pass on the naughts. Their power comes when no LoW are allowed and a lot of things that people spam are S6 so the av13 is great.

Tankbustas are amazing at low-points. You're less likely to run into AV 14, and so they're almost guaranteed to take down their targets- and after that, you can use them to blast apart the little Marine units hanging around. Because you will see a LOT of Marines. People will be all "Oh, but one marine is such a tough unit for so few (comparative) points! Nobody's going to be taking anti-armour units because they're expensive!"

Anvildude wrote:
Tankbustas are amazing at low-points. You're less likely to run into AV 14, and so they're almost guaranteed to take down their targets- and after that, you can use them to blast apart the little Marine units hanging around. Because you will see a LOT of Marines. People will be all "Oh, but one marine is such a tough unit for so few (comparative) points! Nobody's going to be taking anti-armour units because they're expensive!"

Agreed. TBs, when they hit, wreck marine face. Nobody will bring much 2+ armor as it is usually too expensive for 400 points.

I can vouch for how effective tankbustas are against marines. Even on overwatch these guys are practically guaranteed to drop one or two of them. And I'd take at least a couple of bomb-squigs while you're at it, for vehicle hunting. Don't bother using them against marines because for some reason bomb squigs are only AP4.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
I can vouch for how effective tankbustas are against marines. Even on overwatch these guys are practically guaranteed to drop one or two of them. And I'd take at least a couple of bomb-squigs while you're at it, for vehicle hunting. Don't bother using them against marines because for some reason bomb squigs are only AP4.

Probably because they hit on 2's and Gdubs is loathe to have anything super reliable in the Ork codex to be super effective against marines. It's the same reason why our big choppas mind-boggingly is only AP5 even though the heavy chainsword (which I don't even know if it exists as an option in game) and the power maul are AP4, meaning we can't even pen scout armour. Just as planned I suppose...

 Grimskul wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
I can vouch for how effective tankbustas are against marines. Even on overwatch these guys are practically guaranteed to drop one or two of them. And I'd take at least a couple of bomb-squigs while you're at it, for vehicle hunting. Don't bother using them against marines because for some reason bomb squigs are only AP4.

Probably because they hit on 2's and Gdubs is loathe to have anything super reliable in the Ork codex to be super effective against marines. It's the same reason why our big choppas mind-boggingly is only AP5 even though the heavy chainsword (which I don't even know if it exists as an option in game) and the power maul are AP4, meaning we can't even pen scout armour. Just as planned I suppose...

Yeah seriously for ten more points Marines can take relic blades. +2 STR AP3 two handed. I think we would see alot more big choppas if they were that for ten more points.

Heck, at +2 STR AP3 I wouldn't run half the powerklaws I usually do. But +2 STR AP 5 is so underwhelming I only put it on nobs I don't plan on throwing into CC.

Has anyone tried the Wall of Martyrs Defense Emplacement for lootas? It's 10 points less than an Aegis line and allows re-rolling overwatch on Heavy weapons.

It isn't nearly as flexible as an Aegis, but it should fit a unit of lootas nicely.

Also, the model is very cheap. I think I might get me one and try it.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Has anyone tried the Wall of Martyrs Defense Emplacement for lootas? It's 10 points less than an Aegis line and allows re-rolling overwatch on Heavy weapons.

It isn't nearly as flexible as an Aegis, but it should fit a unit of lootas nicely.

Also, the model is very cheap. I think I might get me one and try it.

Can you buy just one wall section? I was under the impression that you had to start with one of the bunkers or big emplacements that come in that model kit and then you can add wall sections, ammo dumps, etc.
I don't actually own a copy of Stronghold Assault, obviously.

Yes, you can buy one section. Looking closely at it, it doesn't seem that bad for Lootas.

@SkrawnyNob the confusion probably stems from the 80-pt wall of martyrs defense line (not to be confused with the defense emplacement) and the wall of martyrs defense network (which is basically what you described, you start with the bigger WoM stuff and bundle other WoM fortifications in a fortification-decurion-thingy.) Stronghold Assault is like DFTS, it's rules don't improve the game and it just makes things clunkier, so not owning it is normal. (I don't own a hard copy, i found a PDF because I don't use the rules in the book and I just use it for reference.)

So after plunging into the depths of the internet, I haven't been able to locate the rules for the Gargantuan Squiggoth. WIth the tournament being tomorrow, I'm considering a different 1850 list that I also haven't used before.

All about them trukks, no umies: 1850

Great waaagh band detachment

Command:

Wierdboy (ML2)

Core: Waaagh-Band

Warboss: DLS, MA, BP (Warlord)

Mek: Naked

Gretchin: Naked

Meganobz: 2 Meganobz: Kombi-scorchas. 1 Boss Meganob: Kombi-scorcha, BP (One is joined by wierdboy)

x5 Boyz squads: 9 boyz: EA, 1 Nob: EA, PK, BP, Kombi-scorcha
Transport: trukk: Reinforced Ram

Boyz Squad: 9 boyz: EA 1 Nob: EA, PK, BP, Kombi-scorcha (Joined by Warlord)
Transport: trukk: Reinforce Ram

Auxillary Choices

x3 Deffcopta squads: 1 Deffcopta: TL RL

x2 Mek Gunz squads: 1 Tractor kannon, 2 gunner grots

x2 Stormboyz squads: 4 Stormboyz, 1 Boss Nob: PK, BP

So basically, I'm really, really hoping to roll a one on my WT table for fearless waaaging the whole game. Thoughts? I'm not sure how I feel about the lack of ObSec, but it could be really fun. I haven't tried this detachment before.

That's too bad about the squiggoth rules. It took me weeks to find them online in a PDF. This is the book the rules are in:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/112107704796?redirect=mobile

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Stronghold Assault is like DFTS, it's rules don't improve the game and it just makes things clunkier, so not owning it is normal. (I don't own a hard copy, i found a PDF because I don't use the rules in the book and I just use it for reference.)

I don't think SA is nearly as bad as DFTS. In this case, it just gives a cover save and an extra rule (actually two, it gives a unit Stubborn as well.) The digital version of the book is only $25, probably well worth it for orks who lack saves and ranged firepower.

@JimOnMars I just feel like a lot of it didn't need to be written, like the 400+pt buildings and the honored imperium statue. The missions don't look terrible but the whole thing is building on what I think isn't a very interesting concept. It isn't as bad as DFTS though, you're right on that point. Somewhat more on topic, DFTS did have the Wazbom. Assuming that you ignore the agility and pursuit stuff, is it better than a blitza-bommer? They both provide anti-TEQ/vehicle with blasts, but is the versatility of the Wazbom going to show itself before it gets blown to pieces?

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
@JimOnMars I just feel like a lot of it didn't need to be written, like the 400+pt buildings and the honored imperium statue. The missions don't look terrible but the whole thing is building on what I think isn't a very interesting concept. It isn't as bad as DFTS though, you're right on that point. Somewhat more on topic, DFTS did have the Wazbom. Assuming that you ignore the agility and pursuit stuff, is it better than a blitza-bommer? They both provide anti-TEQ/vehicle with blasts, but is the versatility of the Wazbom going to show itself before it gets blown to pieces?

I don't know anything about the flyers. I was kind of PO'd that they added the extra sprue to the dakkajet kit and raised the price on both. I was looking to get a dakkajet but I'll be damned if I'm forced to pay the extra cost for it.

Getting back to Stronghold Assault, I found something better for lootas or tank bustas: The Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker is an av14 medium building (4 hull points) with 2 fire points, each allowing 4 models to fire! So that makes 8 lootas shooting out of a av-14 closed-top building. It's only 5 points more than an aegis line. Seems to me like every CAD needs one of these.

I've run a greentide vs ravenwing today. We only managed to complete 2 turns in a 3,5 hour game but it was looking fine for orks. Pks and numbers can still matter...if the opponent doesn't get invis.

It takes a while to widdle down Orks, the longer the game goes on, the worse it usually ends up for the Orks. At least that's what I've noticed. Only getting to Turn2 skews this a lot. So much so, I'd even say "numbers can still matter" isn't an accurate statement. A lot of tournaments realize this issue and force the players to go to at least Turn4. If they don't reach Turn4 both players score 0 points and lose.

This is what I've noticed while running 10x12 boyz. I've always finished 4 rounds with 3 hour caps. Getting to Turn5 is a little harder. 2 turns isn't conclusive enough unfortunately. :(

Orks lost some 30 boyz, 1 nob, 2 koptas and 4 lootas. Marines lost a squad of 6 or 7 bikers, attack bike, speeder and 2 knights (plazma talon dudes). So, it's not like i was taking losses and he wasn't.

That's a lot to lose to Orks in 2 turns. Guess you had some experience on him

I personally take the wazbomb over the blitza bomma just because the bomber never gets to drop his bombs before being shot down. The wazbomb gets at least one turn to fire.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Lootas can objective camp while sniping at any unit on the board (combat patrol usually has smaller board sizes, right?). They die to anything though. When a lot of the armor you'll be facing is 10-11, they could be really strong, now that I think about it.

What you can do is take a KKF BigMek with mega armor and attach him to some Lootas so they can move and shoot while not dying quite as much. Sub KFF for a SAG for more crazy shooting phases. It's a lot of points out of 400, but it could be awesome.

Edit: you don't want the hidden PK because it massively increases the cost of the unit, and because you want your AT (and that PK is a lot out of your AT budget) harder to kill than a single Nob.

I'm not so sure a kff big Mek is the way to go for lootas or Mek guns anymore.
Now that the void shield generator model is easily accessible.
You now have a giant tower that your lootas or Mek guns can be placed on two seperate levels.
Protected first by 3x av12 regenerating void shields and then they still get a 4+ cover save because it has battlements which means they get a cover save even in the open while on the generator which itself is a 4 hull av13 building.

With as tall as that model is it makes getting line of sight a lot easier for your Mek gunz and lootas even after the faq changes take effect and all for 100pts.

The one advantage the KFF BM has over the VSG is that the BM grants the lootas slow and purposeful if he's in mega-armor. Granted, this is expensive, and I've only run it twice, but being able to move those big guns around while firing at full BS is actually pretty useful at times. It's great for positioning.

But, to be honest, I think both options are generally too expensive for protecting lootas. Stick them in some ruins and go to ground whenever something even mildly threatening shoots at them. They could be getting a 3+ cover save and lootas care the least about snap-firing. I'd rather use the VSG to protect a couple gunwagons or walkers, things that really need to extra protection.

I don´t like the idea of tank shocking, because every time I was going to do it my enemy was fearless.

Half the time I tank shock just for fun. Sometimes it works out, like when I was able to tank shock some necrons off of a point I needed, and sometimes it doesn't, when a single assault marine was able to wreck my trukk.

Usually, though, I prefer ramming. Especially with the reinforced ram upgrade, you're getting a S9 auto-hit from the battlewagon. Positioned correctly you can wreck some lighter craft.

Unless you roll a 1 against some land speeders and only get a glance. Like I did. Twice.

Tank shocking with the burna wagon is fun, if you can get it anywhere near the enemy infantry. You get a LOT of kills out of that...usually doesn't happen, though.