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p5freak wrote: Well, defilers dont benefit from the alpha legion trait, -1 to get hit. They also dont benefit from +1 to hit from the disco lords, because its not the same legion. I would remove the spearhead and move the defilers to the battalion, and add a third defiler. A master of possession with cursed earth can give all your daemon engines within 6" +1 to inv. and use sacrifice to heal them. Upgrade your aspiring champions with chainaxes and SB, its worth 3 pts. You should have some meatshield to protect your helbrutes from deepstrikers, add more CSM. Prescience on a sorcerer wouldnt be a bad idea to give helbrutes or defilers +1 to hit.
questions SB? what's that, can't be a storm bolter... won't the master of possession not be able to keep up with the vehicles? Also, would I drop a lord discordant for him? or do I need to restructure further.
Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 180pts]: Baleflamer, No Chaos Mark
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector
Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 180pts]: Baleflamer, Intoxicating Elixir, Mark of Slaanesh, Reaver Lord Artefact
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector
Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 180pts]: Baleflamer, Mark of Khorne, Mecha-serpents, Reaver Lord, Warlord
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector
+ Troops +
Chaos Space Marines [8 PL, 133pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
. 9x Marine w/ Boltgun
Chaos Space Marines [8 PL, 92pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
. 4x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
Chaos Space Marines [8 PL, 133pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
. 9x Marine w/ Boltgun
Question: Isn't this list similar to the one you have been running? Big force running up the board, heavy weapons standing in the back?
There's still 5 HQs only now there's fewer guns, the Cultists have been replaced by Daemon Engines, and nothing gets to deep strike. This might be more of a sidegrade than an upgrade.
Here's what concerns me:
- Death Hex on the Sorcerer. Isn't he there to put Prescience on shooty units? Who's invul is he going to be erasing? Warptime might be more effective.
- The lascannons on the Defilers. The Defilers are BS 4 and will probably be moving the entire game. Weapons with more shots work better on these guys than ones with more damage. Heavy Flamers are sometimes the most effective option.
- CSMs without heavy weapons. Blasphemy! Those lascannons would do more in the hands of CSMs.
That said, the LDs and the Defilers are the main thrust of your offense. That's 78 wounds total on 6 models, each of which gets bracketed at 6 wounds. Think about what Mechanicum / Tau / Eldar / IG armies are going to do in the first turn...
The pattern I see is your lists are built around a grand offensive threat with significant vulnerabilities. Each list will work in some games but break against armies that specialize in what you're building around (infantry, vehicles, etc.) There are a lot of points going into HQs - which is not necessarily bad - but that comes at the cost of a more varied and balanced list.
Something to consider is the idea of a one-two punch. For each offensive threat, what's there to diminish your opponent's ability to respond? You don't want to be in situations where the obvious move is to bear down on your main offensive threat with an entire army.
Going back to your original list for a minute, the Havocs would be more resilient if they were part of an Alpha Legion detachment. Swap the autocannons for lascannons / missle launchers, add a Chaos Lord for rerolls on 1s, and now you have something that challenges the soulforged pack in terms of offensive ability. Your opponents will waste a lot of shots trying to take them out, plus they can move without penalty.
Getting rid of the Obliterators was an interesting decision, but ask yourself if 3 Defilers are actually going to outperform them offensively in a game. The fact they can deep strike and do a ton of damage means your opponent can't ignore them, the rest of your army gets a pass the turn they arrive.
The Lord Dischordants are characters with more than 10 wounds, there's no way to shield them with intervening models. Besides cc, they are really there to buff your Defilers. Do you actually need 3 of them? A Daemon Prince is about as good in cc but can't be shot until he's in the open. Do you really want 3 ccHQs that can get bracketed, or do you want something that's more likely to get there and can bring some psychic as well?
hmm... I wonder if my intermediate list with a couple of tweaks fits what you're suggesting more
Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 180pts]: Baleflamer, No Chaos Mark
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector
Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 180pts]: Baleflamer, Intoxicating Elixir, Mark of Slaanesh, Reaver Lord Artefact
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector
Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 180pts]: Baleflamer, Mecha-serpents, No Chaos Mark, Reaver Lord, Warlord
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector
+ Troops +
Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 85pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher
Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 85pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher
Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 85pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher
I've also thought that I could use alpha legion's strategem to set the obliterators up nearer to my enemies first turn, and if need be then use devastation battery to hit them before they can shoot at me.
p5freak wrote: Defilers are vehicles. No legion trait for vehicles.
Yep and spacemarines and Chaos space marines are some of the unlucky fellows that just have traits for infantry bikers and dreads.
Which sucks.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
ran this list tonight playing "The Relic" Eternal war mission. Went 7 rounds before being completely wiped, however those last 3 rounds the relic was highly contested and it was anyone's game.
Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 180pts]: Baleflamer, Intoxicating Elixir, Mark of Slaanesh, Master of the Soulforges, Warlord
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector
Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 180pts]: Baleflamer, Mark of Khorne
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector
Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 180pts]: Baleflamer, Mark of Khorne
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector
+ Troops +
Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 85pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher
Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 85pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher
Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 85pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher
One question I have, my opponent says alpha legion's -1 to hit doesn't apply within 12 inches. Is that true? where can I reference that rule? I've been told conflicting things about penalties to hit, so I'd like to better understand when they do and do not apply.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/31 03:49:35
So, after seeing the Chaos Apocalypse box, I have started thinking about making a marines/knights army. The knights would be kitted out with thermal cannons, and the marines would fill in objective grabbing/infantry killing.
With that in mind, what would be a good second HQ for the marines? The first one would be a terminator lord or sorcerer from the apocalypse box (probably sorcerer for death hex and shooting mind lasers at people). My FLGS has a clampack lord and the master of executions, so those are the top two. The master of executions seems interesting as a beatstick, especially since it seems like I would not have a whole lot to buff (some marine squads with chaincannons and a couple bike squads).
Any suggestions, tips, etc? I sort of want to get one of the HQ dudes in order to build and paint before I really decide about getting a new army. I am not too worried about being top tier, since I have my Tau for that, this would be more of a fun, cool looking chaos army.
Yaktan wrote: So, after seeing the Chaos Apocalypse box, I have started thinking about making a marines/knights army. The knights would be kitted out with thermal cannons, and the marines would fill in objective grabbing/infantry killing.
With that in mind, what would be a good second HQ for the marines? The first one would be a terminator lord or sorcerer from the apocalypse box (probably sorcerer for death hex and shooting mind lasers at people). My FLGS has a clampack lord and the master of executions, so those are the top two. The master of executions seems interesting as a beatstick, especially since it seems like I would not have a whole lot to buff (some marine squads with chaincannons and a couple bike squads).
Any suggestions, tips, etc? I sort of want to get one of the HQ dudes in order to build and paint before I really decide about getting a new army. I am not too worried about being top tier, since I have my Tau for that, this would be more of a fun, cool looking chaos army.
master of executions can easily turned into count's as khorne DA if you want.
Jokes aside, do you favour any particular lore or unit type?
You could f.e. go for a red corsair flod list. Recyclable marines galore, they also generate decent CP for your knights to use.
Alternate take, get yourself 3 more HQ's and form 2 battalions.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
So imma building a Slaanesh Daemonkin list. Should I take daemonettes as battalion troops, or chaos marines/cultists (they'd have to be flawless host)?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Perhaps go dark horse and throw in some renegades and heretics?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/01 22:46:22
Yaktan wrote: So, after seeing the Chaos Apocalypse box, I have started thinking about making a marines/knights army. The knights would be kitted out with thermal cannons, and the marines would fill in objective grabbing/infantry killing.
With that in mind, what would be a good second HQ for the marines? The first one would be a terminator lord or sorcerer from the apocalypse box (probably sorcerer for death hex and shooting mind lasers at people). My FLGS has a clampack lord and the master of executions, so those are the top two. The master of executions seems interesting as a beatstick, especially since it seems like I would not have a whole lot to buff (some marine squads with chaincannons and a couple bike squads).
Any suggestions, tips, etc? I sort of want to get one of the HQ dudes in order to build and paint before I really decide about getting a new army. I am not too worried about being top tier, since I have my Tau for that, this would be more of a fun, cool looking chaos army.
Whilst the Lord costs a bit more than the MoE, if you’re kitting out the Heretacs with a bunch of big guns, the Lord’s aura is likely going to be worth the difference. Or, if you go with the clampack one, you can give him a jump pack and have him smash faces in with his hammer.
What will be the ramifications of this? Will an extra attack open up any new possibilities for us? We have a bunch of units whose lack of attacks is often bemoaned, such as Warp Talons and Possessed. Will this get them out there again?
How about the various Iron Tide mass CSM swarms we were talking about after Vigilus 2 came out? Flawless Host seems like it gains a bunch from this, and of course Red Corsair recycle lists.
How about melee plague marines?
This hasn't addressed our survival issues, so I'm not sure it's really gonna be enough.
Makes melee Plague Marines more appealing as you said, BUT without two base attacks to work with in the first place they'll still be a bad choice to do so.
It also gave World Eaters 6-7th Rage for all intents and purposes.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Makes melee Plague Marines more appealing as you said, BUT without two base attacks to work with in the first place they'll still be a bad choice to do so.
It also gave World Eaters 6-7th Rage for all intents and purposes.
Plague Marines can get a second attack if they take 2 melee weapons already, so this would be a 3rd.
I don't think it really helps berzerkers all that much as that tended to overkill in melee anyway. They needed a defense boost.
What will be the ramifications of this? Will an extra attack open up any new possibilities for us? We have a bunch of units whose lack of attacks is often bemoaned, such as Warp Talons and Possessed. Will this get them out there again?
How about the various Iron Tide mass CSM swarms we were talking about after Vigilus 2 came out? Flawless Host seems like it gains a bunch from this, and of course Red Corsair recycle lists.
How about melee plague marines?
This hasn't addressed our survival issues, so I'm not sure it's really gonna be enough.
I think it helps out mele lords a lot. Smash captains, chain lord etc will be even more viable.
If Terminators get it blightlords with blades of putrifaction and VotLW gets even more silly. A unit of 10 would get 3d3 flail attacks each and 8 mortal wounds, wounding everything on 2s or 3s with their 37 attacks. That's enough to smoke a knight or a unit of deathwatch veterans.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/03 21:02:55
What will be the ramifications of this? Will an extra attack open up any new possibilities for us? We have a bunch of units whose lack of attacks is often bemoaned, such as Warp Talons and Possessed. Will this get them out there again?
How about the various Iron Tide mass CSM swarms we were talking about after Vigilus 2 came out? Flawless Host seems like it gains a bunch from this, and of course Red Corsair recycle lists.
How about melee plague marines?
This hasn't addressed our survival issues, so I'm not sure it's really gonna be enough.
It will make our big beatsticks even beatier.
Altough i seriously doubt they needed it.
However, i can see now a Corsairs blob list relying on this and chainswords and no shortage of Corsairs to Rain on parades in melee.
However i doubt that it be more effective then the dakka variant we could field now but might be enough pressure and restricting that it might work.
Raptors certainly got a bit more interesting, as do warptalons and possesed. Core melee units that were either too unreliable or had just too few attacks.
However the price of these still is making them questionable at best imo soooooo, ehh maybee?
Chosen frankly still do way better as dakka unit but with the added access to chainswords and this they might become a really fancy allrounder? but why field them, they get outperformed in both aspects and are not durable enough to justify thatn
Cultmarines are like their basic marine brethern mostly, the extra attacks help but require mobility. And we can only sling so many units across the board. There are also other, better, units wanting to get slinged soooooo.
Maybee noize Boys and plaguemarines get interesting enough?
Mobility is still an issue though for these.
As for thousand sons, that would be a waste of inferno boltguns. Also pricetags.
Khorne Berzerkers get even more nuts then they were allready.
Chainsword chainaxe is 3 attacks allready without the double fighting inherent to them.
Screens will annoy them still but at that ammount of attacks even knights Beginn to dislike their chances.
Overall though it doesn't really help the problem children legions that just get outperformed, like WB,WE,NL, ETC.
It also only really boost red Corsairs from the Vigilus book and maybee makes Flawless bit more interesting for an melee army but lack of VotLW and access to khorne double fighting makes that only second line improvements.
Overall for all basic marines, imo, the full equipment (bolter,
Boltpistol and chainsword) instead of an further rule would've helped and not just only the offensive, which tbh is questionable behaviour for 13 pts 2 shots at 24" models.
It's better then nothing but i fear overall still pretty rarely used or making Units usefull.
The biggest winner imo are raptors and warptalons aswell as bikers.
For the average csm and or cultmarine that is not a khornate rage Tripper i think nothing really changed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/03 21:05:45
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Makes melee Plague Marines more appealing as you said, BUT without two base attacks to work with in the first place they'll still be a bad choice to do so.
It also gave World Eaters 6-7th Rage for all intents and purposes.
Plague Marines can get a second attack if they take 2 melee weapons already, so this would be a 3rd.
I don't think it really helps berzerkers all that much as that tended to overkill in melee anyway. They needed a defense boost.
Which they give up ALL shooting to do. Even Berserker Marines are more snooty than melee Plague Marines.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Makes melee Plague Marines more appealing as you said, BUT without two base attacks to work with in the first place they'll still be a bad choice to do so.
It also gave World Eaters 6-7th Rage for all intents and purposes.
Plague Marines can get a second attack if they take 2 melee weapons already, so this would be a 3rd.
I don't think it really helps berzerkers all that much as that tended to overkill in melee anyway. They needed a defense boost.
Which they give up ALL shooting to do. Even Berserker Marines are more snooty than melee Plague Marines.
I mean you can go tank Hunting now with Berzerkers but i still feel it's hard to justify getting rid of 24" 2 shots for plaguemarines, especially since they have movement 5 and no chance at doubling any of their phases.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Makes melee Plague Marines more appealing as you said, BUT without two base attacks to work with in the first place they'll still be a bad choice to do so.
It also gave World Eaters 6-7th Rage for all intents and purposes.
Plague Marines can get a second attack if they take 2 melee weapons already, so this would be a 3rd.
I don't think it really helps berzerkers all that much as that tended to overkill in melee anyway. They needed a defense boost.
Which they give up ALL shooting to do. Even Berserker Marines are more snooty than melee Plague Marines.
I mean you can go tank Hunting now with Berzerkers but i still feel it's hard to justify getting rid of 24" 2 shots for plaguemarines, especially since they have movement 5 and no chance at doubling any of their phases.
They were always supposed to be up close and personal and ALWAYS had a way to show an extra attack, whether they had just two melee weapons or True Grit or having Vet stats. GW took all that away.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Wew Chaos melee units like possessed and 'zerkers just got tastier.
It'd certainly be nice to see if this is the boost our fast attack choices needed- raptors & warp talons- to be a stronger disruption/harass unit that can be usable.
This rule would apply to daemon princes too wouldn't it?
That's my guess since Bolter Discipline applied to all HERETIC ASTARTES and Angels of Death is supposedly wrapping that, Shock Assault, and ATSKNF all into one rule.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/04 01:43:08
slave.entity wrote: This rule would apply to daemon princes too wouldn't it?
Hope so, flawless host lords can become even more horrendously killy. I'm really into this giving noise marines essentially 3 attacks base without chainswords, they feel like they're becoming more generalist without losing out on anything.
Non WE possessed getting d3+1 attacks is also big for me. love those guys
WinterLantern wrote: Wew Chaos melee units like possessed and 'zerkers just got tastier.
It'd certainly be nice to see if this is the boost our fast attack choices needed- raptors & warp talons- to be a stronger disruption/harass unit that can be usable.
I wonder if this will affect Daemon princes
I seriously doubt possesed get any better, the pricetag on one of them is still horrendus.
Zerkers on the other hand, especially in legions that can have warptime sorcerers and movement shenanigans.
Raptors might get usefull enough with 3 attacks on a charge now? (WE Raptors now have 4 so i'd add a maybee there)
For termites it's nice but so long the general terminators can't get additional attacks through other weapons i doubt they'd be good enough for melee duty. Also they profit waaaay more from Bolter discipline.
Red Corsair bikers now got a bit more interesting with 3 attacks aswell.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
WinterLantern wrote: Wew Chaos melee units like possessed and 'zerkers just got tastier.
It'd certainly be nice to see if this is the boost our fast attack choices needed- raptors & warp talons- to be a stronger disruption/harass unit that can be usable.
I wonder if this will affect Daemon princes
I seriously doubt possesed get any better, the pricetag on one of them is still horrendus.
Zerkers on the other hand, especially in legions that can have warptime sorcerers and movement shenanigans.
Raptors might get usefull enough with 3 attacks on a charge now? (WE Raptors now have 4 so i'd add a maybee there)
For termites it's nice but so long the general terminators can't get additional attacks through other weapons i doubt they'd be good enough for melee duty. Also they profit waaaay more from Bolter discipline.
Red Corsair bikers now got a bit more interesting with 3 attacks aswell.
Stacks with never born for d3+2 attacks each on possessed. Black legion could quad mark them so they fight twice and wracked up nurgle kills for tallying man
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
WinterLantern wrote: Wew Chaos melee units like possessed and 'zerkers just got tastier.
It'd certainly be nice to see if this is the boost our fast attack choices needed- raptors & warp talons- to be a stronger disruption/harass unit that can be usable.
I wonder if this will affect Daemon princes
I seriously doubt possesed get any better, the pricetag on one of them is still horrendus.
Zerkers on the other hand, especially in legions that can have warptime sorcerers and movement shenanigans.
Raptors might get usefull enough with 3 attacks on a charge now? (WE Raptors now have 4 so i'd add a maybee there)
For termites it's nice but so long the general terminators can't get additional attacks through other weapons i doubt they'd be good enough for melee duty. Also they profit waaaay more from Bolter discipline.
Red Corsair bikers now got a bit more interesting with 3 attacks aswell.
Stacks with never born for d3+2 attacks each on possessed. Black legion could quad mark them so they fight twice and wracked up nurgle kills for tallying man
Which is still overpriced, still annoying unit to field, you are forced into BL which is a bad legion. And the potential buffability comes at a heavy pricetag, especially in regards to oppurtunity cost.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
WinterLantern wrote: Wew Chaos melee units like possessed and 'zerkers just got tastier.
It'd certainly be nice to see if this is the boost our fast attack choices needed- raptors & warp talons- to be a stronger disruption/harass unit that can be usable.
I wonder if this will affect Daemon princes
I seriously doubt possesed get any better, the pricetag on one of them is still horrendus.
Zerkers on the other hand, especially in legions that can have warptime sorcerers and movement shenanigans.
Raptors might get usefull enough with 3 attacks on a charge now? (WE Raptors now have 4 so i'd add a maybee there)
For termites it's nice but so long the general terminators can't get additional attacks through other weapons i doubt they'd be good enough for melee duty. Also they profit waaaay more from Bolter discipline.
Red Corsair bikers now got a bit more interesting with 3 attacks aswell.
Stacks with never born for d3+2 attacks each on possessed. Black legion could quad mark them so they fight twice and wracked up nurgle kills for tallying man
Which is still overpriced, still annoying unit to field, you are forced into BL which is a bad legion. And the potential buffability comes at a heavy pricetag, especially in regards to oppurtunity cost.
On further thoughts this might work better with death guard or alpha legion.
Alpha legion just needs to hide them on turn 1 and get a -2 to hit going on.
Death guard can just cloud of flies them and keep them hidden behind plague bearers. Death guard would lose access to never born but could stack buffs with deamons. Virulent blessings blades of putrefaction and veterans long war would hit plenty hard
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
Our fighty units just got an unequivocal bump. +1A when charging or charged is solid. If your robust (through endurance or numbers) shock unit manages to prevent fallbacks, then any counter charge unit your opponent throws in makes them angrier.
Our Heretac screens just got a little more resilient against being bullied.
Raptors were not leafblowers and this doesn’t change that. But if you’re taking a five-man Raptor gun squad, it can credibly bully modest objective campers. Warptalons were not leafblowers, except maaaybe with a niche Daemonkin list with a lot of moving parts, but if you’re taking them in the Host Raptorial niche, they’re probably going to be effective bullies of whatever unit’s Overwatch you’re shutting down. Possessed were not leafblowers. Now... they could get there, with enough moving parts and ideal victims. A DG horde of them in a Nurgle Daemonkin list could potentially make a right mess.
In our metagames, we’re going to lose models faster to other Astartes. Smash captains are now even more dangerous. Intercessors might be a tricky matchup if each side’s heavy hitters burn out and it comes down to the poor bloody infantry.
slave.entity wrote: Then again, CSM don't get ATSKNF so maybe their version of Angels of Death will be different from the loyalist one.
There’s no indication we’ll get AoD equivalent. WC article says we’re getting Shock Assault, and loyalists are getting ATSKNF, BD, and the new SA compiled together under AoD.
DG would bring 10x blightlords and 20x possessed, both of which benefit a lot from shock assault. Probably heavy support from Plagueburst crawlers too.
Red Corsairs would bring berzerkers in rhinos and MSU reaper squads for chaff clearing and cheap CP.
Both sides could bring a bunch of characters and armored heavy support. Dark Hereticus Psykers from the CSM side can still buff the DG units, but not vice versa. DG would want a caster or two for buffing the possessed and/or the blightlords.
The idea would be that on turn 1, you present 0 soft targets. Infantry is either in a rhino or screened by them or in reserve. Everything else is t8 armor. You spend your turn 1 moving up. Shield the possessed with Cloud of Flies. Clear screens with shooting from heavy support. Turn 2 you will be in charge range vs most types of enemies, especially with warp time on the possessed and advance+charge on the berzerkers. Blightlords deepstrike and melt something with combi-plasma. They get cloud of flies now that the possessed are going into melee.
This probably won't be a tournament winning list, but it would be a different sort of playstyle from what people are used to, and quite hard to kill. Berzerkers, Possessed, and blightlords are all happy to be in melee with pretty much anything else in the game. And you'll probably have some Princes in there too. Melee knights might be tough.
Think it could work now? Right now I'm not clear on if DG can use the MoP. It appears they can't use the Daemonkin specialist detachment?
