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So, everyone talks about armies getting "squatted," which, of course, is gamer for "removed." You can't go into a Daemon Hunters, Witch Hunters, Necrons, or Dark Eldar rumor/speculation/wishlisting thread (because let's be honest, they all end up being the same) without someone predicting that the army in question will be "squatted".

My question is, when does this actually occur? I wasn't around when the Squats got canned, so this could have a very simple answer, and I just haven't done enough research.

Did GW release some statement saying that Squats are no longer valid to play? Did the community decide that they had been removed since GW didn't update them for a while?

I do know that the fluff states that the Squat home world was ravaged by the Tyranids, but this has never held water for me, in terms of gaming. I fail to see how that is any different than the recent trend of bringing 'dead' characters back to life in a codex.

More of a gradual process than a single event, I think.

No rules updates, followed by removing the models from sale.

Then the icing on the cake was adding fluff that their homeworld got eaten - of course, all the armies that were away from home must still exist, and any other colonies they may have started

With the squats it was a culmination of things.

The miniatures weren't selling all that well, GW had run out of ideas for them which left them little more than a human army with alternative miniatures and GW were looking to change the perception that 40k was just Warhammer in space.

Personally I think it was a shame, especialy for those who collected the models (myself included) and the least they could have done was left a door open for their return rather than some lame story about them getting eaten by the Tyranids

I can't think of any other entire armies which have dissapeared, just random models such as zoats and such like

If ever they were to do it again I too think it would be a gradual process, lack of support for the range, no rules updates and a lack of presence in WD and other literature. They may decide at some point to stick up a sign a couple of weeks before they finaly discontinue the range informing customers, a bit like they do when a new version of Warhammer or 40K comes out

Bascially you see less and less support for them over time. Updates for other armies come and go and you have no new rules or miniatures. You're never featured in battle reports and take up less shelfspace on the shop. They don't put out official announcements because it looks bad, they don't draw attention to it and just wind product lines down and leave a few people unhappy. This is the case for all their games like Necromunda or Inquisitor. They just vanished from the White Dwarf and when support dwindled (as happens when a product has no advertising or presence on the shop floor) they axed the miniature lines and magazines.

From what I recall, squats were featured in the 2nd edition 40K release and there were prototype figures made which appear in the book but at that time the figure range was all RT era stuff and a lot of it wasn't in the shops. Contrary to what some will claim, the squat range did sell in moderate amounts but the studio didn't like them and wanted to do other stuff. When the early 2nd ed codexes appeared they made reference to the Squats, the IG codex says that one will be released in future. Until then you have to use the small amount of rules in the main game books and wait for a release. It never came, and time went by and the squats eventually disappeared totally from the shelves of stores in the early years of 2nd edition not to be re-released. Eventually they were even removed from the bitz catalogues making it impossible to back order them. Though they were still in the Epic game and remained for several years. But the Squats were different in Epic, they had airships and massive vehicles, in 40k all they had were bikes so you can see the design issues and problems to make the army viable, ironically they are better suited to apocalypse/epic games.

When 3rd edition came around a lot of people were not familiar with the squats and they became a footnote in history as they were wiped out of existance by the tyranids in a sentence.

GW don't acknowledge the squats any longer, they never reference them and the sad truth is that it's been such a long time since they were removed from the game that a lot of players and even staff in shops barely know they even existed which is why you get the odd report of staff claiming that there were never space dwarves.

Furthermore, they have airbrushed them from history where possible. The may have given a canonical reason for their disappearance (tyranids eating them) but in years since they have retroactively removed them from products being reused. For instance, in the older novels being reprinted they have edited references to squats out or rewritten characters, one main squat character becomes a tech priest instead. Maybe it's because they squats don't fit in with their brands and product lines any more, maybe they think they will confuse the customer, or maybe there is an element of dislike for the squats and they want them gone so they can reuse old products.

Most armies that have been "squatted" are small or created for limited periods like the Eye of Terror campaign, eg 13th Company Space Wolves and the Lost and Damned. But I've got a load of Dogs of War and Chaos Dwarves and they were mainstream armies.

With squats specifically, Andy Chambers did come out and say that there was not going to be an army book for Squats as they just didn't have any good ideas and no-one wanted to work on them.

Other lists just never got updated when new editions rolled along and quietly dropped off the list of allowed armies.




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squilverine wrote:I can't think of any other entire armies which have dissapeared, just random models such as zoats and such like

Chaos Dwarfs

Squats disappeared from 40K, Chaos Dwarves got the axe in WFB. CD Dwarves have a Indy book out there, its pretty cool, there is a lot of support for them, with many how to convert articles out there.

I've always debated building Squats from Dwarf warriors. Its an easy mix for Thunderers for Squats, but the heavy weapons could get problematic.

The squat were canned for being too similar to humans. Around when they did the Tau, GW came up with 3 concepts for new armies, one was a reconceptualization of the Squats. The "Demiurge" were a trading race, with similar emphasis on master artisans who crafted fine weapons and automotons. The other two were the Kroot and the Tau... the Demiurge concept is what became the crisis suit and drone aspects of the Tau. GW had considered returning to the space dwarf concept but after that I'd say its near 100% dead.

The Chaos Dwarf were something GW kept promising to revisit in WHFB but more recently has made reference to them being revisted instead by Warhammer Forge, the soon to start fantasy arm of Forge World. They'd be done in a similar vein as the Chaos Renegades or DKoK were done by FW, as a stand alone force that notionally draws heavily from an established faction, standard Dwarves.

Scribor does some sick Chaos Dwarf models. I've been sooooo tempted.

What about some of the sub-codices that certain races had? I know they weren't really axed, but they did stop getting support, and are no longer official tourney-legal...

Talking, of course, of Genestealer Cults, Lost and the Damned, Kroot Mercenaries, etc.

squilverine wrote:I can't think of any other entire armies which have dissapeared,

Dogs of War

A full army-booked army now dead.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

squilverine wrote:I can't think of any other entire armies which have dissapeared,

Dogs of War.

Lost and The Damned.

@Fitzz: to be fair, LatD were like Kroot & GSC - no "proper" Codex...

GW were looking to change the perception that 40k was just Warhammer in space

Then they decided undead in space and dark eldar in space :(
It's a pity I liked the squats from an odd point of view. Eggs on legs with masses of heavy weapons and mobile shoty death appealed to me alongside a dwarven stubborn streak. The necrons When they got dabbled with in 2nd ed were vaguely interesting but I had reservations now after the years us players have had playtesting them for GW they might see a nice codex rounded out with a few more options in it
DE.. I just didnt like the models, can't comment but I think personaly they buggered up a potentially good idea. Still doesn't help both dex's are 3rd ed still and they tended to have fewer choices compared to the more up to date ones who have new toys galore.
Squat imperial guard would be characterful though at least aknowledge their past and stick a couple of options for including them. Squat enginseer open up tank upgrades, guardsmen additional special weapon etc. Hmm If I had the time, money and thought of putting the effort in I'm sure I could come up with interesting things for at the least one off games.
But suppose with any business if something isn't doing well, it has to go or be worked on and if no one wanted to work on it... Obviosly at the start of 2nd ed they had plans to get round to them with their psychic powers being in dark millenium, just other projects will overtake some ideas

What are squats?

Samus_aran115 wrote:What are squats?

Dwarfs IN SPACE!

Ah. That sounds silly. Almost as silly a daemons in space and elves in space and fish elves in space....owait.

Locclo wrote:What about some of the sub-codices that certain races had? I know they weren't really axed, but they did stop getting support, and are no longer official tourney-legal...

Talking, of course, of Genestealer Cults, Lost and the Damned, Kroot Mercenaries, etc.

Craftworld Eldar, Harlequins.

Kroot mercenaries were crazy good from the PDF i was reading. Something about cheap powerfists caught my attention....I don't remember anymore

GW were looking to change the perception that 40k was just Warhammer in space

Ha so true. But 40k has better game play due to the more techno stuff!

Have you seen those RT era Ork Terrain pieces?

It was an adobe house with a garden! Orks were docile or something back then. So wierd.

Ah. That sounds silly. Almost as silly a daemons in space and elves in space and fish elves in space....owait.

At least hey never resorted to Pigs in space though

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Fitzz: to be fair, LatD were like Kroot & GSC - no "proper" Codex...

I get what your saying John,however,there was the perfectly serviceable EoT supplement and a great many folks did invest a lot of time and effort into their LatD armies.
...Besides,LatD were just cool and IMO should have a place amongst 40K armies.

Are you kidding? LaTD make up a very VERY strong part of the fluff. They should have never been "squatted" at all. They're very important to the game. Do you actually think that the space marines spend their time beating up chaos marines? NO, they spend their time ripping traitors in half with chainswords!

LaTD NEED to be part of the game..Really. It's easy to make them too, now that guardsmen are plastic and chaos sprues are only a couple bucks

Samus_aran115 wrote:Ah. That sounds silly. Almost as silly a daemons in space and elves in space and fish elves in space....owait.

The difference is that the Eldar and Daemons had succeeded in diverging from their WHFB roots: the Eldar due to the Paths, the Aspect Warriors and all that those entail, and the Daemons due to being made far more dependant on mortals to summon them into the material world than their WHFB counterparts. All the Squats had going for them were the Land Trains.

Didn't we just have a thread like this?

This will end in tears.

And locked threads.

And possibly even with suspended users!

Dwarfs in space is an okay idea
afaik a heavy gravity would possibly the development of a short stout race.

The Chaos Dwarves for some reason were given an Assyrian feel which I understand as much as they look cool.
ie not much

Anyhoo just got a Chaos Dwarf army book so maybe I have a chance to find out.

Would squats be successful if they had a steampunk vibe?

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Dwarfs in space is an okay idea
afaik a heavy gravity would possibly the development of a short stout race.

Been there, done that. The problem is that "short and stout" isn't enough to sustain the idea. You need to ask yourself, "Okay, we've made them short and stout, now what?"

Would squats be successful if they had a steampunk vibe?

No.

okay scratch that then

well obviously you need more than that to make a viable race. Dwarvish races have a place in folklore and in peoples hearts in WHFB as they are rightly popular.

The transition to space fantasy is more problematic as there isn't a tradition for squats (that I know of anyway)

I still like the idea of a quirky Heath-Robinsonesque tech driven race of little spring heeled jacks with some advantage of small targets and better cover saves.

Given some of the comments I've read from GW staff re having a line of leather-clad dwarf bikers makes me wonder if they were dropped for political correctness reasons. It's really too bad as making the 40K stuff more in-line with the Epic range would have been good - given it was aircraft and heavy artillery we could have had leaf-blowers years earlier!

Honestly, I find dwarves stupid in any fantasy situation, including role playing games.

It's possible my friend evan's korean dwarf bard turned me off from them...oh god the pain of sitting through those campaigns...

aka_mythos wrote:The squat were canned for being too similar to humans. Around when they did the Tau, GW came up with 3 concepts for new armies, one was a reconceptualization of the Squats. The "Demiurge" were a trading race, with similar emphasis on master artisans who crafted fine weapons and automotons. The other two were the Kroot and the Tau... the Demiurge concept is what became the crisis suit and drone aspects of the Tau. GW had considered returning to the space dwarf concept but after that I'd say its near 100% dead.

The Chaos Dwarf were something GW kept promising to revisit in WHFB but more recently has made reference to them being revisted instead by Warhammer Forge, the soon to start fantasy arm of Forge World. They'd be done in a similar vein as the Chaos Renegades or DKoK were done by FW, as a stand alone force that notionally draws heavily from an established faction, standard Dwarves.

Scribor does some sick Chaos Dwarf models. I've been sooooo tempted.

well they did bring back the chaos drawfs in wfb. only two models to man the hell cannon.