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as i new play what armys are hard to get into do to things like weak books ,odd rules or rare models ?

Edit: Sorry, didn't read the forum title and rambled on about 40K

This is the warhammer fantasy forum not 40k so its a bit different then all that.

1) Wood Elfs are likely the weakest army book.

2) Tomb Kings 2nd but they are allegedly getting a new book this fall/winter?

3) Brettonia is semi-weak because with the new rulebook there was a nerf to knights and they were a mostly all knight army. BUT you can still run them if you have a decent and well balanced list.

I wouldn't let this stuff scare you off of one of these armies if you like them though as the rules will get balanced out sooner or later.

Whoops, should really read the forum title as well as the thread title

My bad.

Basically the best army to avoid is one that you do not like.
If you like one you'll try all you can to be good at them, the strength of the book won't matter in the long run.

Weak books would be Wood Elves, Brettonia and Tomb Kings like mentioned. Odd rules would be stuff like Orcs (1 in 6 chance of standing there and arguing amongst each other for a turn) and Skaven (Their war machines and technology is pretty fun but pretty unstable), yet those can be fun from their odd rules.

At the end of the day you'll be the one assembling the models and it doesn't matter if they're the strongest book in the game if you absolutely hate the rank and file models you will have a bunch of.

Same 4 armies as the past 5 years or more

Wood elves, tomb kings, ogres and brets.. Id also say Orcs because ive never seen a non-super experienced person not get slaughtered while playing them

My opinion.

1.Orcs and goblins- Animosity really hurts, and is not a fun rule when trying to learn the game. Having a few units completely ruin your plan for domination can mess you up pretty bad. I wouldnt go with this army because when learning you want to learn how to use your army as one unit, working together. Orcs throw a wrench in this vital area you need to learn about.

2. Tomb Kings- Special rules galore, "special" magic phase. When learning the game you want an army that can do well in all aspects. Having wierd rules for a complete phase of the game can make it more difficult to learn.

3. Brettonia- Struggling army atm, would not reccoment it for a new player.

Those are my top 3.

Top 3 best learner armies IMO.

Dark/High Elves- Do well in every phase, so you can dabble in a little bit of everything.

WoC- Again do well in every phase (not so much shooting, but they do have some), very solid combat units.

The other factor to consider is number of models to buy or build

High Elves are good right now (teclis version) and do not require too many models.

Meanwhile Vampire Counts need lots of core because of the 25% minimum.

So do you want to assemble and paint a lot of minitures or the fewest minitures possible?

Lizards would be pretty good as a starter army too. They are super tough, awesome magic, decent shooting and a small and easily manageable army. Also you can get a battalion, slann and stegadon and you are sittin at 1500pts already.

n0t_u wrote:Basically the best army to avoid is one that you do not like.

Read the lores and grab some army books or stand there and read them at your gaming store until people get mad at you. You'll ultimately enjoy an army you like far more than one that is powerful--unless you really can't stand losing in which case just play little kids and make up rules as you go and say they were posted on the 18 and over FAQ.

Kirasu wrote:Same 4 armies as the past 5 years or more

Wood elves, tomb kings, ogres and brets.. Id also say Orcs because ive never seen a non-super experienced person not get slaughtered while playing them

Sorry, dude, but Ogres are the new "In" army.

GW has sold more ogres then any other fantasy army since the release of 8th.


other then that you are right.



My reccomendation is to get an army you like.

Here are some of the armies Strengths and weaknesses.

Empire: lots of cheap troops, but can run an elite force as well. General all around goodness. Artillery is the 2nd best in the game.

Dwarves: The best artillery and ranged weapons in the game as well as being very durable in CC, but they are slow(faster compared to 7th, but still slow) No magic.

HEs: good troops with high I and Ld. 2nd best magic in the game. Dragons.

DEs: the army of

Ogres: Few models, but each is multi-wound and the new monsterous Infantry rules make them very good indeed. relitivly cheap($ wise) to start. Magic is focused on buffing itself, but has a very forgiving miscast table. Best Stone thrower in the game as it's a chariot, causes fear, and has Killing blow on a large blast.

Lizardmen: Best magic in the game. good elite infantry combined with skirmishers. poor I is the biggest problem.

WEs: since about every unit skirmishes the new rules really banged them over the head as they can't get ranks. really fragile except for forest spirits which are vulnerable to a couple really common items.

Bretts: have needed a new book for a while, but they can still win with proper tactics. not a beginners army, but it's your army.

Skaven: these guys are the powerhouse of 8th due to being able to put an insane amount of bodies on the field. Don't start unless you have deep pockets and really like assembling rats because you will spend weeks assembling them.

Beastmen: a good mix of all troop types. cheap chariots. vulnerable to Ld effecting items.

O&G: another good army. lot's of varity. similer to Beastmen. really unique magic. the "Have fun" army, win or lose.

VCs: used to dominate. got brought down to mid tier, but still good. will also need alot of models(Zombies out the Wazoo)


IMO: 8th really leveled the playing field so only a few armys are dominating and it's a precarious position at that.

Just because GW may or may not be selling TONS of ogres doesnt make them a solid newbie army.. Theyre very tough to play and like wood elves, tomb kings and brettonians lose EXCEPTIONALLY easy to a lot of things

Kirasu wrote:Just because GW may or may not be selling TONS of ogres doesnt make them a solid newbie army.. Theyre very tough to play and like wood elves, tomb kings and brettonians lose EXCEPTIONALLY easy to a lot of things

Agreed, ogres are not an easy army to pick up and do decent with.

IMO: I would try out lizard men.

Thier magic is the best in the game.
Shooting is pretty damn good aswell.
Combat wise they are very good.


All in all, they are a decent army that you can theme if you want, or just take solid, hard hitting units.

You wont need hundreds of models, and painting them isnt bad due to a pretty basic scheme (aslong as you dont go crazy with mix-tone blending lol)

Most of all, do what you like.

If you dont enjoy the look and feel of the army you wont enjoy playing it. I have made the mistake of buying a strong army for tournies, but I dont enjoy playing it. I ended up selling the models for a loss, and picked up the army i enjoy aesthetically, fluffwise, and composition wise. Now i dont win every game a play with a super army, but i enjoy the hell out of every game now.

You also have the 2 Chaos Armies , Warriors and Daemons . Both good allrounders and fairly cheap to buy ( I hear any NO´s ? ) .

Wonder what Grey Templar has to say about Khemri.

To echo a few in this thread I'd avoid Wood Elves, Orcs & Goblins, and Khemri. They operate a bit differently than other armies and will be difficult for someone new to the game to feel they are doing well and enjoy themselves. Orcs can be a riot but you have to enjoy playing with troops that don't always do what you want. Ogres probably fit this category as well.

The best suggestion I have is to pick one you like the models for. You're going to be assembling and painting a lot of the little buggers so liking the way they look and the story (fluff) behind them matters a lot.

Dark Elves, High Elves, Lizardmen, Warriors of Chaos, Dwarves, and Empire are all good to start with. I'll also mention that High Elves get models in the new starter box set and will be getting some new plastic elite unit models by the time the year is out.

Also as a few have touched on, certain armies come with a higher model count which means more little soldiers to put together and more money spent, Skaven especially.

Ragnar4 wrote:Wonder what Grey Templar has to say about Khemri.

it's an older book.

Magic is nice and reliable though.


I have yet to see them in action, but that will change on Saturday.

ramongoroth wrote:
Also as a few have touched on, certain armies come with a higher model count which means more little soldiers to put together and more money spent, Skaven especially.

Not to mention the painting requirements (time, money, your sanity)...I have yet to see a fully painted Skaven army thats above 1000 points.

Aside from the guys who get paid to do that sort of thing

Grey Templar wrote:Ogres: Few models, but each is multi-wound and the new monsterous Infantry rules make them very good indeed. relitivly cheap($ wise) to start. Magic is focused on buffing itself, but has a very forgiving miscast table. Best Stone thrower in the game as it's a chariot, causes fear, and has Killing blow on a large blast.

Meh, it's also got a sucky miscast table and tends to run off attacking people and is pretty expensive. The dwarf grudge thrower is better because you can make it flaming, +1 strength, miscast rerolling and an engineer to it for another reroll.

The ogre miscast table is forgiving? are we looking at the same one?!

I will second O&G are a hoot to play, one second the decide to bicker amongst themselves, then they decide RAWRRRR and run 6 inches straight down the field...

Well, the fact that a miscast doesn't mean Str10 hits to everyone in the general vicinity and, with the exception of rolling a 2 on the table, he can regenerate any wounds he loses with Bloodgruel.

we also will not be likely to roll more then 2 dice at each spell so a miscast is highly unlikely.


i'll take Str4 hits over Str10 hits any day of the week.

Peversely, as a beginner, I would suggest staying away from High Elves and Skaven as most other new players will start with them since they are in the new box. If you are likely to be playing against other new players you might not want to be adding to a slew of similar armies or playing against an army of the same type as yours, especially as most armies will look quite similar in terms of troop choices in the early days.

On the other hand, the Skaven have brilliant stuff and some very nice models. Also if you want to start playing quickly, are strapped for cash and have a little friend to split the cost with, the new 8th box IS a good idea

Orcs and Ogres are the most spiritually satisfying armies and they have some of the very best models and they are also the most viable (along with Beastmen) armies to paint lots of dirt, foecal matter and comedic intestinal ormentation on .

But definitely avoid Dogs of War and Chaos Dwarves unless you want to only play very friendly games

I will add something that I don't think was mentioned.

If your FLGS has an active gaming group, try to find an army that isn't being well-represented that you would enjoy spending a lot of time assembling/painting and looks interesting to play.

- Blackbone

The only one that really galls me is tomb kings. I would feel sorry for anyone buying into them as a first army right now. When popular rumors point towards them getting a re-release by next year. Whilst some of the other armies need updating sorely at least they seem able to perform still.

thanks for all the info guys, but two things i would like to know, how do dwarfs compete with no magic(not one of the armys iam looking ati would just like to know ) and about the ogres seams to a difference of opinion if they are a good starting army(or a good army at all).

ps the armys me and my brother are looking at are ogres , beastmen ,lizardmen and high elfs .

Dwarves basically have the best anti magic in the game. I'm not too familiar with them but they use runes to make up for it.

Basically they make up for it with the resistance and artillery.

A simple way to explain dwarves is that normally the person casting the spells has more dice to use than their opponent who is trying to keep them from casting. Dwarves can get as many or more dice to dispell than their opponents can to cast. There's more to their anti magic than that but that's it in a nutshell. They have very good warmachines, their troops are tough and they can field lots of great weapons. Which means they hit back hard with the new step up rules in 8th.

I think you'll be OK with any of those armies. Ogres you might want to spend a bit of extra time doing some research what to buy and how to use them. A few people have pointed out they're not as forgiving an army as others. Lizardmen with large blocks of saurus would be the new person friendly forgiving army, and you get to play with dinosaurs!

High Elves are a good elite army with plenty of plastics due out soon. As some have mentioned there will probably be quite a few people collecting and playing them. It is different for each person but for me I don't like playing the same army that a lot of other people do. Mirror matches just aren't as interesting. Also the rest of the play group kind of gets tired of playing one of 3-5 people that all have variations of the same thing. This varies a lot from location to location though assuming you'll be playing at a local gaming store in addition to playing your brother.

I don't know a whole lot about beastmen. I haven't played against them yet in 8th although I'm due to play them next week. \