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The Emperor defeated Horus without difficulty and never had to be placed in the Golden throne , what do you think would have happened?


MOD note : I've fixed the multitude of spelling errors in this post, please take more time and effort when posting in the future. ta.

blood reaper wrote:
The Emperor defeated Horus without difficulty and never had to be placed in the Golden throne , what do you think would have happened?

Corrected your spelling.

I think that the Imperium would still be in pretty much the same state as it is now, just with the Emperor as it's head ... and Legs BOOM BOOM

The heresy pretty much ruined the Imperium and it's still recovering to this day, it'll never fully recover if you ask me.

blood reaper wrote:The Emperor defetded hourus without difficulty and never had to be placded in the Golden throne , what do you think would have happnded?

Humanity would rule a Utopian galaxy and who knows what other advances would have been made in the last ten thousand years. It only took the emperor 200ish? years to expand the Imperiium from one world to what it is now. Had he not been maimed by Horus 40k would have been over 9,850 years ago, imo.

Except would he have dealt with the forces of chaos that would only grow in strength from all the fighting? Mainly Khorne, and Tzeentch. Not sure if the others would still be around too much, but those two would probably make up the majority.

He'd assume mental control of the hive mind and convert all those adorable Hormagaunts into pets for the Space Marines!

Possibly a new golden age, avoiding to an extent the pitfalls of the past?

The Emp was not into worship and religion so the universe would have been at peace forever

SuperUtopia

ushering the age of NOBLEBRIGHT

Space Marines still would have rebelled because the Emperor wanted to give more power to Humans and away from Space Marines.

You'd just probably have a few less chapters/legions/whatever rebelling. Maybe Horus would have stayed loyal. Maybe Sanguinius would still be alive. Maybe the Blood Angels would be the ideal chapter instead of the ultrasmurfs. Maybe the Emperor would have let the church start growing anyway but publicly deny his godly status. Maybe the Emperor would have figured out how to make female Space Marines. Maybe Orks would have had more fun because there's more Marines to kill. Maybe Eldar would be plotting even MORE against the Imperium. Maybe Tyranids would have to adapt to fighting legions of Space Marines. Maybe the Nightbringer WOULDN'T have been awoken by Ultramarines, starving and about to die, and then let free in exchange for a few relatively insignificant lives of the Space Marines in the cave with him. Maybe Tau would be... feth Tau.

For certain the Ecclesiarchy wouldn't exist, and no one would refer to him as a God.Those thing represent the kind of dogma he fought against during the great crusade.

whatwhat wrote:For certain the Ecclesiarchy wouldn't exist, and no one would refer to him as a God.Those thing represent the kind of dogma he fought against during the great crusade.

... at the same time as he did everything in his power to ensure that he was worshipped as a god, taking pages out of greek (and other) mythology in his interactions with people as well as his astartes and primarchs.

I'm sure it wouldn't exist in its current form, but it would exist, because the Emperor was either planning it or he's an idiot who has no damn clue how the human mind works.

Warhammer 40k: Dark Millenium would come out and be fantastic

Melissia wrote:

whatwhat wrote:For certain the Ecclesiarchy wouldn't exist, and no one would refer to him as a God.Those thing represent the kind of dogma he fought against during the great crusade.

... at the same time as he did everything in his power to ensure that he was worshipped as a god, taking pages out of greek (and other) mythology in his interactions with people as well as his astartes and primarchs.

I'm sure it wouldn't exist in its current form, but it would exist, because the Emperor was either planning it or he's an idiot who has no damn clue how the human mind works.

I take it you haven't read the first four HH books?

Melissia wrote:he's an idiot who has no damn clue how the human mind works.

One thing I have been thinking is that he never actually intended to be a God, but before he went to fight Horus, he realized that he had been a bit of an idiot and that faith and belief can be an even stronger weapon than truth. So he get's his butt kicked, placed in the Golden Throne, becoming the God Emperor thus giving the people of the Imperium a bit of hope when there pretty much isn't any.

whatwhat wrote:I take it you haven't read the first four HH books?

He says a good deal, but then he acts in a completely contrary way.

Melissia wrote:

whatwhat wrote:I take it you haven't read the first four HH books?

He says a good deal, but then he acts in a completely contrary way.

No that's not what I mean. I'm talking about the beginning of the imperial cult which mainly happens around Euphrati Keeler. That's the basis on what the Ecclesiarchy is built. It materialises from finding safety in belief in the emperor when the incomprehensible forces of chaos show themselves, fueled in part by the fact chaos fears the emperors name (the summoned demon in the archives is dispelled by speaking of him for example).

What your taking about is setting himself up as an idol, which of course he does do. Not a god. He explicity denounced being worshipped as a deity as is obvious by the Lorgar example. Ironically the Lectitio Divinitatus which Lorgar wrote is a primary text of the Ecclesiarchy.

Also a lot what the Ecclesiarchy is based on the Emperors sacrifice in the Horus Heresy, which obviously wouldn't have happened had he survived.

So hence, like I said, no Ecclesiarchy if the Empreror had survived.

Again, what he denounced is irrelevant. If you haven't paid attention, politicians quite commonly say one thing and do another.

Melissia wrote:Again, what he denounced is irrelevant. If you haven't paid attention, politicians quite commonly say one thing and do another.

Erm yeh, I understand. But I don't see it. I don't see where the Emperor encouraged those to view him as a god.

Again idolising someone like a god is different to appreciating them as an actual god.

Not by much. It only takes one person to start a religion around him. Just look at Scientology, and that one was started by a science fiction author.

There were uncounted billions, which heard of his exploits, or saw him, or even interacted with him. And he gave them the impression of divinity while denying his divinity... which only made him even more admirable because humility is an admirable trait.

So according to your logic you can't give the impression you are supperior without expecting those to see you as a GOD?

whatwhat wrote:So according to your logic you can't give the impression you are supperior without expecting those to see you as a GOD?

Without SOMEONE seeing you as that, yes.

Especially when you prove you're superior to the extent the Emperor did. Extremely unsubtle.

If the Emperor made himself appear as a mere human psyker instead fo a demigod, he'd have had much better luck on the religion department.

Melissia wrote:

whatwhat wrote:So according to your logic you can't give the impression you are supperior without expecting those to see you as a GOD?

Without SOMEONE seeing you as that, yes.

Especially when you prove you're superior to the extent the Emperor did. Extremely unsubtle.

If the Emperor made himself appear as a mere human psyker instead fo a demigod, he'd have had much better luck on the religion department.

I think it would kind of undermine his postition as Emperor if he did that.

Anyhow you were implying that the Emperor did this on purpose and wanted to be viewed as a god. How is that the case?


No, the Emperors situation is much more akin to Haile Selassie in real life. A man who through his successes attracted the belief in others that he was a deity, which he denied, yet his denial only made those who believed this about him believe even more.

Henners91 wrote:He'd assume mental control of the hive mind and convert all those adorable Hormagaunts into pets for the Space Marines!

Now thats an interesting thought. A gaurd gaunt.

Melissia wrote: Maybe Horus would have stayed loyal.

this has nothing to do with the post as the senario has been set, Horus went bad and was killed

whatwhat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

whatwhat wrote:For certain the Ecclesiarchy wouldn't exist, and no one would refer to him as a God.Those thing represent the kind of dogma he fought against during the great crusade.

... at the same time as he did everything in his power to ensure that he was worshipped as a god, taking pages out of greek (and other) mythology in his interactions with people as well as his astartes and primarchs.

I'm sure it wouldn't exist in its current form, but it would exist, because the Emperor was either planning it or he's an idiot who has no damn clue how the human mind works.

I take it you haven't read the first four HH books?

All of the fluff says that he had no want to be worshipped as a god, he used himself and what he wears as an example of the glory man can achieve making enveloping a new world easier (he specifically told off the word bearers for preaching the 'Emperor as a god' belief)

lots of thinks would change, the religious aspects would be gone (sisters of battle would chage and the Ecclesiarchy would definetly not exist), the inquistion would be more tightly controlled, and the Mars would not be as powerful (and with alot less fear of new designs), the imperial troops would still have grav bikes, relations with aliens like tau and eldar would be alot better the list goes on and on

i do see the legions still becoming chapters but it would be more likely that the remaining primarchs would have lived longer (or had not disappeared) and that the Emperor would have taken a vested interest in the blood angels due to the sacrifice of Sanguinius, lessening the effects of the rages.

I agree with most of that but...

BluntmanDC wrote: relations with aliens like tau and eldar would be alot better the list goes on and on

I'm not sure of that. It could be argued that the imperium was at it's most xenophobic before the Horus Heresy. I can't think of any examples where the imperium worked alongside xenos before then.

I would go with the thought process that after the Horus Heresy the Emperor would see Chaos as the greater threat and see them as a usefull tool due to the Eldar's knowledge of the chaos gods and the tau due to their near inert presence in the warp.

Although the crusades was a purge and burn travel holiday for humans, the Emperor would see the dangers present and change to overcome them, he was a genious after all

whatwhat wrote: A man ( the Emperor) who through his successes attracted the belief in others that he was a deity, which he denied, yet his denial only made those who believed this about him believe even more.

QFT

whatwhat wrote: It could be argued that the imperium was at it's most xenophobic before the Horus Heresy. I can't think of any examples where the imperium worked alongside xenos before then.

Mankind had relations with xenos before the Age of strife. Maybe some "neighbours" should have considered the possibility of retaliation.
The level of xenophobia of the Imperium isn't a surprise but a reaction to events in the past.

Before the Heresy, the Interex ( humans with xenos friends/allies ) could be an example of old pre age of strive alliances.
The crusade obviously changed the policy of all compliant worlds to a xenos unfriendly environment .

The Imperium would operate as ordered by their N°1. If he wishes, xenos become acceptable.

Certain users, please keep in mind that for the purposes of THIS thread, the Marines have already rebelled, but the Emperor easily defeated them.

Alpharius wrote:Certain users, please keep in mind that for the purposes of THIS thread, the Marines have already rebelled, but the Emperor easily defeated them.

I am not certain if I am a certain user but I really like to know our setup before debating this theory.
So:

- Who has turned? the 9 Legions we have in the current background doing so?
- Who is dead? Horus?
- The traitors still fled to the EoT ?
- its the Siege of Terra and Big E survives?

IMO if the Emperor reached Horus first and beat him, plus other Legions not getting kept off the fight the setup of the OP would come to pass.

Melissia wrote:Again, what he denounced is irrelevant. If you haven't paid attention, politicians quite commonly say one thing and do another.

Please explain the Emperors public censure of the Word Bearers then.

Please explain why he had the Ultramarines destroy the city of Monarchia precisely because the citizens, after instruction from the Word Bearers, were worshipping him as a God.

Please explain then why he sent out teams of Custodes to accompany the Word Bearers to double check that they had learnt their lesson and were no longer proclaiming the Emperor as divine.

Vaguely back towards topic...

.I would suggest that the Imperium still would have been torn asunder. Lorgar was a chaos worshipper a good forty years before Horus' rebellion,a nd he and his legion had already done much towards undermining the nascent Imperium.

Indeed, given the genesis of the Primarchs one could argue perhaps that a rebellion was inevitable. Bear in mind that prior to Horus' rebellion they had already been forced to deal with two errant sons.

Those are some excellent examples you've pointed out there, actually.

Of course, they are from a book that isn't out yet in the States yet, but still, very good!

Of course, we've been... arguing about this for some time now, I don't expect it to stop anytime soon...