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So I m sitting at work with my brand new space pups, thought I would draw up a list, I just picked up my models yesterday, and am looking through a few low point lists. Here s the 1000 I can almost field with little purchase.

HQ
Njal Stormcaller 245

Elite
5 scouts melta pwX2 115

5 scouts melta pwX2 115

Heavy
5 Long Fangs 3 Missle 2HB 1 Seargent 130

Troops
Grey Hunters X7 PF melta, 185
Rhino Ex Ar

Blood claws X9 PF 210
Rhino Ex AR

Id put Njal in with the grey hunters and run them and blood claws forward. If either transport becomes disabled, go for the objective hold. Use long fangs split fire to take armor and troops. Depending on the mission, and necessity scouts would outflank or infiltrate to deny or slow combat troops, or take out heavy support.

I would not recommend a pricey SC in such low games. He chomps on 1/4 of your army. Rather have a normal rune priest. Not a fan of blood claws either. Change them into grey hunters. With point left over I would move the razor to the long fangs (and remove EA, not too useful), give the grey hunters more bodies and then a rhino. I would also remark that for long fangs, missile are their best weapons. I would drop 1 or all lascannon to get missiles instead of HB

I am figuring that with Njal s special rules, in addition to the psychic stuff it will be worth it. The Blood claws are there to chew into something, I figure in this low point of a game their +2A on the charge are going to be worth it. Im going to drop their melta tho and give it to a scout squad because they likely won't shoot it anyway. I think I will drop one of the Las, change for missly, but I like them on foot with troops having the mobility. The HB in the LFP is for the occasional mass of troops I might face, IG, nid, ork. Those are the three armies I play most against. List updated.

kenshin620 wrote:I would not recommend a pricey SC in such low games. He chomps on 1/4 of your army. Rather have a normal rune priest. Not a fan of blood claws either. Change them into grey hunters. With point left over I would move the razor to the long fangs (and remove EA, not too useful), give the grey hunters more bodies and then a rhino. I would also remark that for long fangs, missile are their best weapons. I would drop 1 or all lascannon to get missiles instead of HB

Dude, this is space wolves. Taking SCs are rarely a mistake. Especially with Njal. I suggest dropping 1 wolf scout squad and the power weapons on the remaining wolf scout squad.

Instead, put in a Wolf guard squad, 3 of which can accompany your grey hunter, wolf scout and specially your blood claws. The wolf guard get power weapons cheaper and they get 2 base attacks to boot.

The wolf guard with the wolf scouts can bring in combimelta and PFist for sapper duties. Clearing headstrong from blood claws and Ld9 is always good, hell you can give a power weapon to give it more effect.

Since Njal has TDA, he cant ride in with the grey hunters, thats why you drop Extra armor on your ride and invest them instead on 2 TDA which will escort Njal.


If I were to make your list it would look like this:

Njal (245)

5 x Wolf Scouts (85)
-Meltagun

5 x WolfGuard (160)
-CombiMelta + PFist goes with wolf scouts.
-3 x TDA Upgrade

10 x Grey Hunter (185)
-Flamer + Melta gun
-Rhino

10 x Grey Hunter (185)
-Rhino
-Flamer + Melta gun

6 x Long Fangs (140)
5 x ML

I thought a model with tda only took up 2 spaces in a trasnport? The space wolves codex does not say that the rhino can't carry termies... ? Is there something I am missing for that?

He can ride in the rhino

Yes his model is termie armored BUT hes like Calgar. You have to pay for the armor. Njal comes with runic armor by default

So just put a normal Njal in with the GH. Honestly, though, as a SW player I still wouldn't take him. He is only really good in 1500 plus games. Otherwise, he is too expensive. I reccommend:

Rune priest, Chooser, LL, JOTWW- 110

5 scouts, melta, 2x Plasma pistol- 115

5 scouts, melta, 2x Plasma pistol- 115

9 GH, rhino, melta, MotW, standard- 200

10 GH, rhino, 2 melta, MotW, standard- 215

Predator, HB sponsons, storm bolter, HK missile- 105
6 Long Fangs, 5 ML- 140

Isnt Njal 245 points without terminator armour? If he wears it, he is at 270 points.

Also missile launchers will waste horde armies as you frag them to bits, no need for heavy bolters.

Terminators can only use land raiders and drop pods, or take a long slow walk.

I don't have the predator to field. It used to state in the rhino entry could not carry terminators as far as I know, and now it no longer states that. I looked and looked through my codex, so unless I missed something it soley goes off transport capacity with them taking up two slots. I didn't have the points in my list or couldnt find anything worth giving up on ten points to convert the last two HB to missles. I could drop a long fang, and then spend some extra points elsewhere as well. I am using Njal for all of his abilities, especially on troops, relying on the missles and scouts to pop the armor so i can assualt with the grey hunters and blood claws. Hmm, I will look at the regular Rune Priest as well. I could field two, one for each troop choice for the same price as Njal. I ll look. Thanks for the input, and if anyone can direct me to the statement about what a termie can ride in that would be greatly appreciated.

themrsleepy wrote:I don't have the predator to field. It used to state in the rhino entry could not carry terminators as far as I know, and now it no longer states that. I looked and looked through my codex, so unless I missed something it soley goes off transport capacity with them taking up two slots.Thanks for the input, and if anyone can direct me to the statement about what a termie can ride in that would be greatly appreciated.

Page 61

Thanks

Drop Njal. Honestly, spending 25% of your available points on a character with 2 wounds and no invulnerable save is asking for trouble. Any dedicated melee character will slaughter him in close combat, and have little difficulty getting there because the rest of your force is so small. Additionally against Eldar a single 15pt piece of Wargear (Runes of Warding) will make him fail psychic tests on average, and anything 12 or higher on 3d6 is perils of the warp, in addition to any double 1's or double 6's you roll.

Take a regular Rune Priest, or hell....take two for 45 points less than Njall and you will have a FAR better chance of them surviving the battle and doing something decent.

Here is my normal 1,000 point list:

Rune Priest (Wolf Tail Talisman, Living Lightning, Tempest's Wrath) - 105
3 Wolf Guard (2x Power Fist, 3x Combi-Melta) - 109
8 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino) - 170
9 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino) - 185
5 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Razorback) - 120
5 Long Fangs (4 Missile Launchers, Razorback) - 155
5 Long Fangs (4 Missile Launchers, Razorback) - 155
Total 999

Much better ranged firepower, a Rune Priest that adds to it and provides protection from Deep Strike lists like Blood Angels, Chaos Daemons or Drop Pod lists, and from Skimmers/Jump Pack troops. It also has three scoring units capable of assaulting enemy objectives, and 5 tanks cruising up the field for target saturation.

Now a list like this might involve some purchases but it will be an excellent base of miniatures to start with for building larger forces. All of the infantry can be built from 4 Wolf Packs, including the Rune Priest and the Wolf Guard, with a few extra bitz orders. Here's a breakdown:

4x Wolf Packs ($37.25 each, retail)
2x Rhinos ($33.00 each, retail)
3x Razorbacks ($35.00 each retail)
3x Combi-Meltas ($9.99 each from TheWarStore.com)
3x Meltaguns ($6.49 each from TheWarStore.com)
8x Missile Launchers ($8.99 each from TheWarStore.com)

Total retail cost: $441.36
Total discounted cost from TheWarStore.com: $377.36

Subtract what you already have from the list of stuff to buy and you shouldn't need to spend THAT much money to make it work.

Anyway, that's just my opinion, so feel free to use anything you like and scrap anything you don't. Hope that helps.

There's cheper ways to get some of those things (Especially at your FLGS) and the spce wolf kits come with so many extra bits its kinda hard not to convert each guy. For combi meltas: You can greenstuff it with a dashed cylinder! I also heartily reccommend the following in place of the 4 wolf packs:

2 wolf packs/1 wolf pack

2/3 tactical squads.

I reccommend this because of the extensive bits in the wolf packs- you can kit bash with ease. Tactical squads also include for your needs: Meltagun, flamer, plasmagun, rocketlauncher- all of which but hte plasma the packs sets don't include! So really, is it that tough of a deal? DO IT!

I aslo reccommend Aldarionns list for the sheer firepower.
The battle force would also be a great deal, especially if you want to droppod those 5 guys and their WG.

So yeah, my 2 cents.

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:There's cheper ways to get some of those things (Especially at your FLGS) and the spce wolf kits come with so many extra bits its kinda hard not to convert each guy. For combi meltas: You can greenstuff it with a dashed cylinder! I also heartily reccommend the following in place of the 4 wolf packs:

2 wolf packs/1 wolf pack

2/3 tactical squads.

I reccommend this because of the extensive bits in the wolf packs- you can kit bash with ease. Tactical squads also include for your needs: Meltagun, flamer, plasmagun, rocketlauncher- all of which but hte plasma the packs sets don't include! So really, is it that tough of a deal? DO IT!

I aslo reccommend Aldarionns list for the sheer firepower.
The battle force would also be a great deal, especially if you want to droppod those 5 guys and their WG.

So yeah, my 2 cents.

Mmm true. Its always good to take stuff from the generic marines. Taking both BF's can give a nice baseline which you then add in the missing holes

Yup. It's what I did, and it's worked well so far. You get something like 29 heads for 10 guys in the SW sprue! It's AMAZING!

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Yup. It's what I did, and it's worked well so far. You get something like 29 heads for 10 guys in the SW sprue! It's AMAZING!

53 heads actually, but some of them are intended for Scouts.

I build all of my infantry from Wolf Packs because I prefer to have no vanilla marine bits/shoulderpads/etc... on my figures, but that's just me. As for my Meltaguns/Combi-Meltas, I actually only bought one of each, and I replicated them multiple times via Greenstuff molds to save money, but not everyone is confident enough using Greenstuff to make that work.

I meant 29 per sprue, so its not that far off... but...

Ohhhhh my bad

'S fine. It's kinda hard to count em all!

themrsleepy wrote:So I m sitting at work with my brand new space pups, thought I would draw up a list, I just picked up my models yesterday, and am looking through a few low point lists. Here s the 1000 I can almost field with little purchase.

HQ
Njal Stormcaller 245

Elite
5 scouts melta pwX2 115

5 scouts melta pwX2 115

Heavy
5 Long Fangs 3 Missle 2HB 1 Seargent 130

Troops
Grey Hunters X7 PF melta, 185
Rhino Ex Ar

Blood claws X9 PF 210
Rhino Ex AR

Id put Njal in with the grey hunters and run them and blood claws forward. If either transport becomes disabled, go for the objective hold. Use long fangs split fire to take armor and troops. Depending on the mission, and necessity scouts would outflank or infiltrate to deny or slow combat troops, or take out heavy support.

Are you planning on playing mostly competitively/tournament or mostly casual/fun games with opponents also expecting casual/fun games?

If it is the former, then by all means listen to all the mech & melta-spam advice that you'll get in this part of the forum.

If it is the latter, then you don't need to bother with any of that, and go ahead and try out all the stuff you think will be fun to put on the table. At some stores it is not even appreciated if you show up with your internet-list melta/mech army.

It's a combo, I want to win but they are friendly games. I don't get to go to 40k night at the LGS often, work is lame that way. I am searching for a fun list that is both competitive and interesting after talking it over with my friend quite extensively, I really think Njal is worth taking in a 1000pt list. Sure he's not designed for close combat, though he does have a little bit to keep him alive. But, I really think as a compliment to a force he can be amazing. I am totally and completely ditching previous list. haha, but really thanks for the advice on it though, kind of inspired to me change it up a bit. Well, my next list I don't know if it is as competive as the the ones posted here, but it sounds like fun I unfortuanately left it at home so it'll get posted up either tonight or tomorrow.

I just don't know how Njal could ever reliably fit into a 1,000 point list. At that level, every point counts, and it's the difference between a Rune Priest and another pack, or Njal. Without his Terminator Armor he is excessively fragile and requires a lot of support, but with his Terminator Armor he cannot ride in anything but a Land Raider or a Drop Pod which means in a low points list he will likely be sitting in the back with the Long Fangs, which is not a great idea.

You will essentially be fielding a 750 point force + Njal, and if he rolls Perils of the Warp he wounds himself with no save. That's just too much risk for such a high point cost special character in a low point game with only 2 wounds.

As long as you understand you are fielding a glass cannon that your opponent will key in on and likely have little difficulty killing with a well organized force, then more power to you.

Oh yea, I am a huge fan of the glass cannon. If my opponent chooses to focus fire on my expensive thingie, then I have more freedom of movement on the rest of my army to engage, the theory there is that which he does not have time to stop will crush him. The new list that I am going to post up tonight with exact points is basically 5 squads of Blood Claws in Rhinos, Njal. And 4 Wolf Pack leading the Blood claws. Each squad of Blood claws has a flamer, each Wolf Pack has a PF. I ll post up a proper list tonight but that is what it sumarily looks like for now.

Switch to Grey Hunters and I guarantee you will be much happier. They don't get as many attacks on the charge but they have higher weapon skill and the ability to shoot their Bolt Pistols before they are forced to assault.

Wolf Guard do not count as independent characters and in fact, by joining the Blood Claws they themselves gain the Headstrong rule that forces the Blood Claws to forgo shooting if within assault distance of an enemy.

Additionally Blood Claws cannot charge after disembarking from the Rhinos if the Rhinos moved, meaning it will take two turns to get into position, then a third turn to assault assuming your opponent doesn't just move out of the way. Grey Hunters can move, disembark and fire, then either counter-assault if the enemy shoots them, or follow up and charge or double tap should the enemy move back.

If you must use Njal, I'd do something like this:

Njal - 245
3 Wolf Guard (2x Power Fist, Frost Blade, 3x Combi-Melta) - 124
8 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino) - 170
9 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino) - 185
5 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Razorback) - 120
5 Long Fangs (4 Missile Launchers, Razorback) - 155
Total 999

It has three scoring units and some decent ranged firepower as well as enough tanks for good target saturation as you advance. Your opponent will still key in on Njal but with a list like this you will hopefully have enough support to allow him a bit of freedom to be effective. Just know that if you are playing Eldar and they have a Farseer, you have wasted 245 points.

Aldarionn- Agree on the GH... but I FAQ'd it, and you lose the headstrong with a WG.

Njal- I love him. He and Ragnar are both amazing... but njal just doesn't click in a low points game! Read Just Daves tactica, it might help... Also, I don't want to drill it into your head, but a rune priest does Njals work for cheaps. Nuff said.

DO. NOT. USE. BLOOD. CLAWS.

At this level, they are really unrealiable. Their biggest problem is being overpriced. TAKE GH. YOU WILL THANK US LATER!

How are blood claws unreliable? They are the exact same points as the GH, the only difference with them is the fact that grey hunters have bolters and BC have an extra attack on the charge.

Njal isn't just about being a rune priest, he's about causing an apparent point sink and making my enemy either focus fire towar him or away from him. I want the enemy to have to choose between that expensive HQ, which has special rules, and could be feared, plus two psychic powers a turn or the troops....side note, rarely play against eldar, nids often, but he never takes shadow, but he will now... just for joww lol... Then again my friend doesn't know i've picked up a space wolves army yet yes surprise and shock will light up his face when necrons aren't coming to the table. haha!
WG are 2 pts cheaper for the pf than putting it on the blood claw, grey hunter is same pt as blood claw for pf, and its for a small 1000 pt game, 5 flamers, 5 rhinos, 5 PF, 20 bp ccw blood claws, i attack on my terms generally, it will only take a squad or two to make it, and at a thousand points, i plan on enjoying this list. Everyone says blood claws aren't worth it, they suck. But why do they say that? what makes them so bad? Headstrong? Negated by my WG. No bolter? Don't care I'm taking them to assualt not to shoot. 3BS? Don't care I'm taking them to assualt not to shoot. WS3? Not that bad hit everything and it's mother on 4+ that many attacks thats perfectly acceptable, still S4. 19 attacks plus 3 PF on the charge the way im running it, after a flamer template and the rhino s shooting in. In a 1000pt list am I really gonna see such a bamfy character, MC, squad, that I can't take it down with a squad or two?

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Aldarionn- Agree on the GH... but I FAQ'd it, and you lose the headstrong with a WG.

Actually it's not in the FAQ, it's in the Codex. It states that "If the Blood Claws are joined by a Wolf Guard model or an Independent Character....etc...."

I missed that part of it, so my bad.

Regardless, my point still stands when it comes to Blood Claws. They are not worth their points when fielded in a Rhino, and the only effective way to field them is 14 at a time with a Wolf Priest leading them along with a Wolf Guard with a Power Fist (which is obviously too expensive for 1,000 points since that's a 600 point unit, leaving you with 400 points for the rest of your army. Too damned expensive, even for a unit in a Land Raider.

How are they not worth their points in a rhino? I intend on driving my rhinos up 12, pop smoke, up 12, turn them and bail all troops behind the rhinos, 3 rd turn use the rhino sto corall the troops into something assualtable and begin destruction, even in 1 rhino gets popped each turn that still leaves me with two squads at the minimum on the assualt. My guess is that eveyrone is thinking that Blood claws are not worth it because they dont get the +2 on the counter? This will be a case of YMMV I think, I ll try it out Wednesday at my FLGS, I actually get to go for once, and send out the battle report. But, please if theyres some major flaw in the Blood claws I am missing let me know! lol, The adamancy that they suck is pretty strong here, so please let me know what I seem to be missing lol.

Well, that's atleast 3 tunrs if your opponnent is dumband doesn't run... 3 turns wasted not in CC... and GH do better there too, and in shooting... so... PLUS THEY ARE THE SAME COST!

themrsleepy wrote:How are blood claws unreliable? They are the exact same points as the GH, the only difference with them is the fact that grey hunters have bolters and BC have an extra attack on the charge.

Njal isn't just about being a rune priest, he's about causing an apparent point sink and making my enemy either focus fire towar him or away from him. I want the enemy to have to choose between that expensive HQ, which has special rules, and could be feared, plus two psychic powers a turn or the troops....side note, rarely play against eldar, nids often, but he never takes shadow, but he will now... just for joww lol... Then again my friend doesn't know i've picked up a space wolves army yet yes surprise and shock will light up his face when necrons aren't coming to the table. haha!
WG are 2 pts cheaper for the pf than putting it on the blood claw, grey hunter is same pt as blood claw for pf, and its for a small 1000 pt game, 5 flamers, 5 rhinos, 5 PF, 20 bp ccw blood claws, i attack on my terms generally, it will only take a squad or two to make it, and at a thousand points, i plan on enjoying this list. Everyone says blood claws aren't worth it, they suck. But why do they say that? what makes them so bad? Headstrong? Negated by my WG. No bolter? Don't care I'm taking them to assualt not to shoot. 3BS? Don't care I'm taking them to assualt not to shoot. WS3? Not that bad hit everything and it's mother on 4+ that many attacks thats perfectly acceptable, still S4. 19 attacks plus 3 PF on the charge the way im running it, after a flamer template and the rhino s shooting in. In a 1000pt list am I really gonna see such a bamfy character, MC, squad, that I can't take it down with a squad or two?

Let me start off by saying that Space Wolves are NOT a Close Combat army. I'll repeat that. They are NOT, under any circumstances, to be considered a Close Combat centered force. If you want an army that specializes in Close Combat, play Blood Angels. They are much better at it and their Assault Marines are scoring units supported by cheap Elites choices that give them Feel No Pain and Furious Charge. Space Wolves are a CLOSE RANGED SPECIALIST army. This means they operate well within a distance of about 12"-24" ideally, and they can survive in melee if it is forced upon them. They do have some melee specialist troops, but that does not mean the entire Codex is designed for that type of play. Thunderwolves make for an awesome Death Star, and Blood Claws can do the same thing in a Land Raider (more on that later), but both do best when supported by several packs of Grey Hunters, who are widely considered the single best basic infantry unit IN THE GAME right now. Why would you pass up that unit for a unit that trades the Bolter for +1 attack when assaulting, but cannot assault out of a Rhino, -1 WS and BS and a rule that requires that they be accompanied by a Wolf Guard or an Independent Character? If their Wolf Guard dies due to an unfortunate save they lose the one thing that allows them to function normally. Grey Hunters are just flat-out better!

Blood Claws are not "bad" per se, they are simply inferior to Grey Hunters except when fielded in a Land Raider. The simple reason is you cannot move your Rhino 12", unload your Blood Claws and then assault with them. You have to remain stationary, disembark, then assault, which means your Blood Claws will take 3 turns to get into combat, and be left completely exposed to an opponent that pops your transports and then mows down the infantry inside. A rhino moves 12" on turn 1 and pops smoke, which in a Pitched Battle deployment puts you at best 12" from the edge of their deployment zone. Your opponent then moves his units back slightly and fires at your transports. You move another 12", this time lacking smoke, and your opponent positions his units in a way that once your transports are busted open he can either shoot or assault the Blood Claws inside (who do not gain +2 attacks when counter-charging). If his units have Furious Charge, he attacks before you and at a higher strength (Common for Blood Angels, Tyranids, Chaos, Etc...) and slaughters your Blood Claws before they do anything.

With Grey Hunters you advance on turn 1 and pop smoke, and on turn 2 you have a 12" move, a 2" disembark and a 12" double tap with Bolters, which gives you a 26" threat range from the center of the board and the ability to soften your opponent before he shoots or assaults you. The next round if he's in assault range you can shoot him with Bolt Pistols followed by an Assault and lose a grand total of 9 attacks, or you can walk forward 6" and double tap again, your choice. The Grey Hunters have a 2nd turn strike capability that Blood Claws simply do not have unless fielded in an assault vehicle.

I could do the math for you, but I don't care to work out the numbers against Tyranids, Imperial Guard, Chaos or normal Space Marines (The big 4 that you will likely see, since you mentioned you don't face Eldar that often).

I CAN tell you that Blood Angels Jumpers will massacre you without much trouble, and Tyranids love to see Blood Claws, but HATE to see Grey Hunters across the table since Grey Hunters have guns that ignore the armor on their basic infantry. Imperial Guard will just feed you a squad while the rest of their army shells you from a distance since you lack any real ranged capabilities whatsoever. You'll slaughter the squad you charge, then be left out in the open for their ordnance to blast you apart.

All of that is moot though if you have your mind made up. If you want to field Blood Claws that's your decision, but every veteran Space Wolf player will tell you Grey Hunters are much better for the same price.