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Played with Zarakynel yesterday. Dead turn 1. /clap
Double shooting obliterators alone did 17 damage. And yes I used the strat for +1 invul. RIP 666 pts

Lame. Big stuff... just not destined to be good for us this edition.

Damn. That's a lot of points. But it's kind of an all eggs in one basket deal isn't it?

Every big thing is a basket and the bigger the basket the more Lascannons it’s going to face.

I’m starting to think that big stuff is good only, and only, if it’s specialised in endurance (even then, Mortarian is a bit of a gamble), or can be protected by putting it in reserve and has the range to make a difference after it hurriedly arrives on turn one with some toilet paper hanging off its belt


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’m starting to have thoughts about big stuff...

...it’s only really worth bothering with if it’s specialised in endurance. Anything that can throw a mean punch or whatever is going to be marked for Lascannon spam on turn one. If it takes a few turns to get into attacking range, then the purpose of its infinity gauntlet or whatever is to encourage your opponent to prioritise killing it over the stuff you’ve taken and actually expect to get into the fight.

Alternatively, if it can be protected by gunline alpha, say with a reserves rule, and it can actually do something at range, then it has a place. If the mission allows for walk-on reserves, then go ahead and bring a gunner Knight.

(Hahaha, I’ve just realised that Mortarion can’t even swoop forwards on turn one and rendezvous with teleporting Deathshroud any more)

Regarding Spartans, Warptime puts us in a fairly unique position. It’s already a pretty tough beast, and we can have it get right up in the enemy’s face and demand to be shot at. There’d be arguments to Advance and pop smoke, were we able to strip it of those expensive and glorious Lascannons. I definitely like Heavy Flamers on it; 28” threat range is tasty, and it totally wants to try to charge seomthing as long as you’ve got countermeasures to keep an exit space open.

It’s a shame mine’s going to be heavily dedicated to Khorne, as it’s a perfect candidate for the deity spells. Especially DA.

One thing that comes to mind... flank Sparty with two Heldrakes. Warptime it forwards, and the drakes behind the unit opposite. Charge the lot in, and aim to envelop the unit to prevent it falling back. If you’ve got those three units in the enemy DZ on turn one, and they can’t be shot at, then you are seriously sorted. Consider throwing a re-roll at the last of the three to attack, to make sure you don’t overkill the target unit.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Played with Zarakynel yesterday. Dead turn 1. /clap
Double shooting obliterators alone did 17 damage. And yes I used the strat for +1 invul. RIP 666 pts

happened me the same also if in reduced scale with Mortarion vs 7 grim reapers, guide and doom and Mortarion down to 8 wounds in 1 single turn, ok i was unlucky with saves... but....

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Played with Zarakynel yesterday. Dead turn 1. /clap
Double shooting obliterators alone did 17 damage. And yes I used the strat for +1 invul. RIP 666 pts

That seems unlucky or she was against an ungodly amount of lascannons?

I would suggest paying the CP to deep strike her if you're up against a gunline like that.

I’m going to try running Skarbrand alongside a World Eaters Detachment, so tons of fearless cultists and bloodletters. My plan to keep him alive mostly involves bringing a Lord of Skulls as well, so they have something else to shoot at for a turn. Bringing a Crimson Crown herald and Khorne Prince as well, so if anything manages to make it into melee they should blend pretty well.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Played with Zarakynel yesterday. Dead turn 1. /clap
Double shooting obliterators alone did 17 damage. And yes I used the strat for +1 invul. RIP 666 pts

That seems unlucky or she was against an ungodly amount of lascannons?

I would suggest paying the CP to deep strike her if you're up against a gunline like that.

Literally 3 obliterators got her down to 3 wounds alone. Average-ish rolls.

Uh... so what's the difference with the deepstrike? She comes down within 9'', fails the charge and dies anyway. Even if she makes it - she hits the screen, it retreats and she dies anyway.

Sadly.... this is the norm for daemons.

Only daemon lord unit worth is the lord of change cause of the 2++. Aangrath is kinda good to with the 16" but his points are..... odd to say

unless your daemon lord can take a big hit, then it's best to deep strike it. But other than that it's a pretty much uphill battle.

It's kinda the reason why Skarbrand is really strong atm, cause of his rage aura that makes things unable to run from ur units. Making them very effective

Lord of change is only 3++. Read the rules. It's almost a BRB rule "you can't have 2++" at this point.

And there is 1 LoCs in the entire London GT (400 people) and it's in a pure psyker list which will be destroyed by any kraken nids or heck, just lascannon spam?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Played with Zarakynel yesterday. Dead turn 1. /clap
Double shooting obliterators alone did 17 damage. And yes I used the strat for +1 invul. RIP 666 pts

Deep sadness. I've been having decent results with a Lord of Change warlord. I have been using the 2++ though.

Which you can't use...

i dont think you can get a save better than 3++

 blackmage wrote:
i dont think you can get a save better than 3++

Yes you cannot be better than 3++
but Tzeentch gives you a +1 to the roll, so your 3++ is passed on a roll of 2+

Impossible Robe = "The wearer of the Impossible Robe has a 4+ invulnerable save"

Warp Surge = "Until end of the phase invulnerable save is improved by 1 (to a maximum of 3+)"

Ephemeral Form = "Add 1 to any invulnerable saving throws made for the unit"


Sorry if this was already discussed, but isn't "+1 to a saving throw" fundamentally different from "improving" an invulnerable save?



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 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Lord of change is only 3++. Read the rules. It's almost a BRB rule "you can't have 2++" at this point.

Off-topic, but archons have a 2++

I didn't take the stratagem into consideration. Using it on the LoC is a waste IMO. The opponent can just shoot something else as the LoC isn't a must kill.

They specifically confirmed that Harald Deathwolf's Storm Shield and +1 to saving throws results in a 2+++.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I didn't take the stratagem into consideration. Using it on the LoC is a waste IMO. The opponent can just shoot something else as the LoC isn't a must kill.

Kind of true. Despite being very hard to kill, for the most part it doesn't seem to matter unless they leave me an opening with which to infernal gate a bunch of characters. Not likely.

Don't underestimate the psychological impact of a very tough to kill and very mobile Greater Daemon that imparts significant buffs to a psyker squadron and strong DTW coverage.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I didn't take the stratagem into consideration. Using it on the LoC is a waste IMO. The opponent can just shoot something else as the LoC isn't a must kill.

Sometimes he can, but let's not forget that LoC with its "more than 10 wounds" can screen lesser characters (DPs, Heralds or allied CSM/ TS/ DG guys) from enemy fire. So we can make him the only target on the battlefield worth shooting with heavy weapons -- and let enemy waste a ton of shots at his 2++ save.

Characters can’t screen other characters unfortunately.

 Badablack wrote:
Characters can’t screen other characters unfortunately.

not 100% true. The full wording is ignore other enemy characters with a wound characteristic of less than 10 when determining if the target is the closest. So a Lord of change does screen for deamon princes for example.

I have found that the best option is

Lord of change with impossible robe and warlord trait for -1 damage
Greater deamon of khorne with armor of scorne and warp surge
Deamon prince of slaanesh with wings in its own slaanesh detachment


So that gives 2 stupid tough 3++ crazy deamons to get through with a slaanesh one flying over them and charging because it's So damn fast it should get there turn 1, if it fails the charge it's protected by the big guys and will get there t2. So my question is, what are you going to shoot first? The thing that will eat your face or the thing that will dish out mortal wounds with little issue? Hold 20 pink horrors off the field for deep strike t2 and your opponent knows that the loc will make them deadly with flickering flames. Make a channeling the warlord and give him the deamonspark straight instead of the loc with the -1 to damage and move that up as well, what's the treat potential here now? A Lord of change totally buffing your force and making things die with little chance to protect from it, a greater deamon of khorne which is pretty much throw it forward and watch the hair fly, with a dp of slaanesh wanting to eat your face and a 2nd turn drop in of units you know will need to make sure doesn't get it's chance to start rolling on the buff and blast train.

I have also been using arhiman, 2 defilers, and a vortex beast as a support to this force and it's scary good. Vortex beast buffs any tzeentch model (potential str 5 pink horrors? Hehehe. Or maybe a better ap on that Lord of changes attacks to make sure it can kill that redemptor dread that charged it to tie it up?) With defilers dropping much needed long range fire support. Finish the list with small deamonettes squads for objective taking and support, they won't get targeted normally because there are so many more pressing matters to attend to.

Azuza001 wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
Characters can’t screen other characters unfortunately.

Lord of change with impossible robe and warlord trait for -1 damage

If you make LoC your warlord you lose the daemonspark aura which gives your tzeentch reroll 1s to wound which is real nice.

You do, it's a trade off, but the -1 damage has saved my loc so many times that it needs to be mentioned.

Now, I'll preface this by saying I haven't tried this, but the idea came to me when someone was presenting the differences between summoning and deep striking.

Has anyone thought about the possibilities of keeping a few points back for summoning a unit of daemons late game to dump onto an objective that needs holding/denying, or to keep them in "reserves" for post turn 3, if needed?

Wondered how this'd work in practice, if it'd even be worth it

I try and keep 100 pts free for whatever I want / need late game. Actually I do it to threaten my opponents with turning an enemy character into a chaos spawn with my Lord of change (funny how just that threat makes people want to kill the loc quicker) and for if I want to split some pinks. But yea, if the points haven't been used by t3 summoning is another option.

Is a Nurgle Prince with Corruption worth it over double talons? I'm already running a DG Prince with double talons and Suppurating Plate

Kzraahk wrote:
Is a Nurgle Prince with Corruption worth it over double talons? I'm already running a DG Prince with double talons and Suppurating Plate

I feel like it's much better for can-opening. Being able to reroll wounds is a big deal, especially with the extra damage effect on 6's from loci, with the +2Str and extra point of AP it puts it over the +2A from talons.

Given Nurgle struggles with those sorts of units outside of VB Flies or Banner Plagues it makes sense to me.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Played with Zarakynel yesterday. Dead turn 1. /clap
Double shooting obliterators alone did 17 damage. And yes I used the strat for +1 invul. RIP 666 pts

That seems unlucky or she was against an ungodly amount of lascannons?

I would suggest paying the CP to deep strike her if you're up against a gunline like that.

Literally 3 obliterators got her down to 3 wounds alone. Average-ish rolls.

Uh... so what's the difference with the deepstrike? She comes down within 9'', fails the charge and dies anyway. Even if she makes it - she hits the screen, it retreats and she dies anyway.

My suggestion for DSing her was mainly to protect her from an oblit drop or something like that from a gunline getting first turn. The new rules kind of change that dynamic I suppose though. With their 24" range how were they in range on the first turn? Or did you go first and move her up and then get shot to ribbons?

Anyone tried the 3 giant blobs of plague drones? I'm still assembling and buying mine. I've only ran a single blob of 9 in the past, but had awesome results with it. I'm running 2 blobs of 7 tonight, and will soon have enough to run 3 blobs of 7.

Seeing the 27 drone list place 9th(?) in a tournament pushed me over the edge of doubt. I figured investing that many points into big blobs of drones would be terrible. I freaking love the plague drone models though... except for transporting them.