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I read the mini rule book and it looks like in this edition a unit shot at in cover first takes a cover save and then takes their armor save. This means they have 2 chances to save, which is logical. In 3rd, however, we only got one or the other - whichever was higher. Do we get both in this edition or am I having some wishful thinking?

M.

You only get one save. BRB p 24 Models with more than one save.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:You only get one save. BRB p 24 Models with more than one save.

this is 100% correct. You only get one and you take your best save.

Correct, only 1 save.
Barring the USR feel no pain; but that's not a "save" per se; and therefore doesn't relate to your question.

If I may ask, what was it that gave you this idea?

People talking about cover being useful in this edition lead me to think that you could combine it with your armor, like logic would have make sense. Didn't think about the more than one save rule; didn't connect cover save = save = more than one save.

M.

The reason cover is more useful this edition is that pretty much anything and everything gives you a cover save, and it is often a 4+ cover save.

And, of course your cover save is not affected by the AP of the weapon that's shooting you.

This is true. I've always favored a terrain dense table; the "wide open meeting engagement" type never got my fancy long.

Still think you should get both :p

M.

Infantryman wrote:People talking about cover being useful in this edition lead me to think that you could combine it with your armor, like logic would have make sense.

At first I felt the same way, much like how even if you drop templates and blasts on a valuable enemy model, the wounds instead can go to some schlub in the same unit . But if one is running an army not completely decked out in the best armor the cosmos has to offer, I'd say cover is VITAL to the health of the troops.

Its usefulness scales in proportion to the model. For models with a 2+ save and a 3+ invulnerable save, being in cover just means

The foe might not see them to shoot at them [i think].
The foe that tries to assaults them might not get to them.
The foe that assaults them goes last

But for models without such robust defenses , that 4+ against shooting is delightful and Going to Ground can mean a few more models alive when that is more important than that unit's next action.

Infantryman wrote:This is true. I've always favored a terrain dense table; the "wide open meeting engagement" type never got my fancy long.

Perhaps a tyranid army might fit your tastes.

Infantryman wrote:

Still think you should get both :p

M.

Why becouse SM need a even bigger boost? Think about my Orks, man. 3+ is hard to break as is give them a 4+ on top of that and I might asway stop playing.

Noir wrote:

Infantryman wrote:Still think you should get both :p

M.

Why because SM need a even bigger boost?

Being behind a wall and having armor on ought to be notably better than than just one or the other. For some folks, myself included, it is irksome when getting models behind a defensive wall is not worth the effort getting to it.

Noir wrote:Think about my Orks, man. 3+ is hard to break as is give them a 4+ on top of that and I might asway stop playing.

Getting both saves would make the game much less playable. Also it would mean high armor models would have to cost many more points

frankthedm wrote:

Noir wrote:

Infantryman wrote:Still think you should get both :p

M.

Why because SM need a even bigger boost?

Being behind a wall and having armor on ought to be notably better than than just one or the other. For some folks, myself included, it is irksome when getting models behind a defensive wall is not worth the effort getting to it.

Noir wrote:Think about my Orks, man. 3+ is hard to break as is give them a 4+ on top of that and I might asway stop playing.

Getting both saves would make the game much less playable. Also it would mean high armor models would have to cost many more points

What are you saying it a good or bad thing, you seem to be saying both. And breaking up my post, seem the change what I was saying. As I was pointing out that 2 save would make the game unplayable for my Orks, but seem to lose that meaning when you read them apart like that, as your post seem to impile.

What are you saying it a good or bad thing, you seem to be saying both. And breaking up my post, seem the change what I was saying. As I was pointing out that 2 save would make the game unplayable for my Orks, but seem to lose that meaning when you read them apart like that, as your post seem to impile.

He's saying both. That from a logical stand point and symulation point of veiw only taking 1 save makes no sense. Why would this tree I'm stood behind protect me from a Lascannon but be powerless to help against a lasgun? However from a game balance point of view it would be game breakingly in favour of armoured models to move to this model.

Agreed on it disproportionately helping MEQ's. But, when the Ultramarines take up residence in a forest...blast them out of there. Also flamers.

M.

Infantryman wrote:Agreed on it disproportionately helping MEQ's. But, when the Ultramarines take up residence in a forest...blast them out of there. Also flamers.

M.

So, you agree that it would make MEQ too strong, but say "Bugger it, do it anyway!"?

I'm not saing threre wouldn't be some kind of counter. I do like that reroll system though.

M.

FlingitNow wrote:

What are you saying it a good or bad thing, you seem to be saying both. And breaking up my post, seem the change what I was saying. As I was pointing out that 2 save would make the game unplayable for my Orks, but seem to lose that meaning when you read them apart like that, as your post seem to impile.

He's saying both. That from a logical stand point and symulation point of veiw only taking 1 save makes no sense. Why would this tree I'm stood behind protect me from a Lascannon but be powerless to help against a lasgun? However from a game balance point of view it would be game breakingly in favour of armoured models to move to this model.

Are the cover saves not based on you cannot see the target, so the save means you miss because of trees are ruining your view, not that a very courageous tree got in the way of the lascannon round and stopped it dead in its tracks?

Either way, still stands you only get to choose 1 save.

I was wondering something (and not to post new thread I will post it here)... Can you choose which save to take or do you have to use your best? For e.g. null zoned wraith in cover would have his 3+ inv save, but perhaps he would like to use 4+ cover save instead so that it doesn't get rerolled... Not that I had that kind of dilemma though

Chinchilla wrote:I was wondering something (and not to post new thread I will post it here)... Can you choose which save to take or do you have to use your best? For e.g. null zoned wraith in cover would have his 3+ inv save, but perhaps he would like to use 4+ cover save instead so that it doesn't get rerolled... Not that I had that kind of dilemma though

OH GAWD! Why you make poor Shark-Trolle-With-Monocle-and-Pipe cry! (T_T)

The rule is you must take your best save.

What exactly they mean by best is never answered! Do they mean simple numerical (4+ but re-roll successes [25%... I think] is better than a 5+ with no re-roll [33%]) or mathematical (4+ reroll fails [75%] is better than a 3+ [66%]. They don't tell you, so you have to house rule it (preferably pre game).

hehe
Always happy to make your day

I always go with "multiplying two numbers is fairly easy" and therefore treat best as the literally best save you have - i.e. the lowest chance you have of suffering a wound.

Personally I run it as picking the save which is least likely to get my model a wound, which is therefore my best save.

But I will run it the other way if my opponent has a problem with it.

Infantryman wrote:This is true. I've always favored a terrain dense table; the "wide open meeting engagement" type never got my fancy long.

Still think you should get both :p

M.

Well ... of course you do .... you play marines ....