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Just seen this post from Rodolfo of Kabuki Miniatures over on WAMP - thought it might be an idea to make you guys aware as well.....

Hello there,

i want to inform you about some nice guys around the world that are re-casting my figures. they are:
frutillo_es (spanish ebayer)
dospatitos (spanish ebayer)
caomao1122 (Chinese ebayer on Ebay.co.uk)
Dark Yakuza (spanish gaming club connected to e-miniatures)

there is no need to say that this is illegal but the worst is the quality and the alloy, they sell pieces of awful "lead" with very poor detail and big moulding lines. Sometimes the items miss the original resin base and naturally the packaging is different.

If someone knows about other re-casters i kindly ask to report it in this thread,

thanks in advance!

Rodolfo
Kabuki Models

So, as always, please take care when buying Kabuki on eBay, to make sure you're getting the real deal.

Thanks for the heads up on this one.


I think there should be a stickied thread on dakka with the names of ebay re-casters.

I dont really care about why they are doing it, or the legal levels of it, i just dislike the fact that they are usually very poor casts.

Oh the irony of a recaster complaining about recasts.

I bought some of Kabuki's models when they were known as Oni-Models, then Demon-Models, then Kabuki-Models, they've had about 10 different names on ebay through the years. The models I purchased from them were "authentic Games Workshop Models" but were actually cheap recasts.

RUN! Tsunami of recasting comments sure to follow!

Hrm. I just bought some old Rackham stuff from caomao1122 recently. Haven't gotten here yet, but I will let you know how they pan out.

Foda_Bett wrote:Oh the irony of a recaster complaining about recasts.

I bought some of Kabuki's models when they were known as Oni-Models, then Demon-Models, then Kabuki-Models, they've had about 10 different names on ebay through the years. The models I purchased from them were "authentic Games Workshop Models" but were actually cheap recasts.

You know, I was reading all this recasting stuff and my bug senses started flaring when the name kabuki poped up on screen... My fuzzy memory recalled something similar to what you just described.
Ex thief complaining about thieves? I have a hard time believing the word of any of those guys...
Nevertheless what a bunch of greedy criminals someone should close them all down fast.

NAVARRO wrote:

Foda_Bett wrote:Oh the irony of a recaster complaining about recasts.

I bought some of Kabuki's models when they were known as Oni-Models, then Demon-Models, then Kabuki-Models, they've had about 10 different names on ebay through the years. The models I purchased from them were "authentic Games Workshop Models" but were actually cheap recasts.

Nevertheless what a bunch of greedy criminals someone should close them all down fast.

Indeed, starting with the OP, of course.

Wehrkind wrote:Hrm. I just bought some old Rackham stuff from caomao1122 recently. Haven't gotten here yet, but I will let you know how they pan out.

those are definitely recasts

way too many unpainted no box or card models. I purchased some and then bottled following through when I saw the next listings..

JohnHwangDD wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

Foda_Bett wrote:Oh the irony of a recaster complaining about recasts.

I bought some of Kabuki's models when they were known as Oni-Models, then Demon-Models, then Kabuki-Models, they've had about 10 different names on ebay through the years. The models I purchased from them were "authentic Games Workshop Models" but were actually cheap recasts.

Nevertheless what a bunch of greedy criminals someone should close them all down fast.

Indeed, starting with the OP, of course.

Oi! What've I ever done to you, John? :(

Me, specifically?

You've offended my sensibilities by complaining about recasters.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Me, specifically?

You've offended my sensibilities by complaining about recasters.

.....

All I did was repost something from another forum, to try to keep the good people of Dakka warned.

I feel so oppressed.....

For those of us not up to date on current international copyright laws:

What and who exactly is breaking the law? Are GW models protected by Spanish (I assume, what country is Kabuki in?) copyright laws? If so, is it just the producer that is libel, or are there restrictions on importers or purchasers in Spain? I know a buyer of copyright broken materials isn't libel in the US (don't know about UK or Australia or NZ, sorry), but does this transaction technically happen in US jurisdiction or in Spanish?

All GW models are protected by copyright laws across the globe.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Thanks for the heads up on this one.


I think there should be a stickied thread on dakka with the names of ebay re-casters.

I dont really care about why they are doing it, or the legal levels of it, i just dislike the fact that they are usually very poor casts.

Capitol idea!

Dysartes, thanks for the post. Others, please don't drag this into another GW IP discussion, for the love of gawd.

Yep this gusy is recasting my stuff as well.... Got his info though, name and address, just wonderign what i can use it for.

Question is it illegal to recast for yourself? I understand it being illegal for sales. but for personal use?

col. krazy kenny wrote:Question is it illegal to recast for yourself? I understand it being illegal for sales. but for personal use?

I think its best if we dont mention anything about recasting. Especially if you go down to a local store and boast about an army you never paid for

I seen one of them is selling forge world. counterfeit? They better hope they are not recast or G.W sharks will be smelling their blood.

Those sharks only have teeth if they can reach you. Apparently China is not one of the places where they can do that. Getting the guy(s) booted from eBay shouldn't be hard though.

col. krazy kenny wrote:Question is it illegal to recast for yourself? I understand it being illegal for sales. but for personal use?

Definitely yes (in the US at least). There are some "fair use" exceptions to copyright, but they do not include anything like "Personal use rather than commercial". And, I think you'll have a very hard time convincing a judge you were using these as a purely research basis


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JohnHwangDD wrote:All GW models are protected by copyright laws across the globe.

Well, that's simply not true. Afghanistan, Laos, and the Marshall Islands don't have any copyright protection. Many countries also have rather short copyright laws, for example Syria only grants 10 years from production for group copyrights (that's GW models). There's also many countries that require periodic fees to keep the copyright valid.

P.S. In my research for this comment, I confirmed that in Spain (as in all EU countries), GW models are definitely covered by copyright protection and will be for the next ~70 years.

" Question is it illegal to recast for yourself? I understand it being illegal for sales. but for personal use? "

Well look at it this way; People depend on the sales of their work to feed and house their families. If you recast what you woldl otherwise need to buy from the producer to have, you are, in effect, stealing money from them.

tre manor wrote:" Question is it illegal to recast for yourself? I understand it being illegal for sales. but for personal use? "

Well look at it this way; People depend on the sales of their work to feed and house their families. If you recast what you woldl otherwise need to buy from the producer to have, you are, in effect, stealing money from them.

Well, that certainly answers the unasked morality question, if nor the legality question

From the GW legal page....

" We would also remind you that reproduction for personal use is NOT an automatic exclusion in respect of copyright protection in many territories worldwide."

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?pageMode=multi&categoryId=&pIndex=3&aId=3900002&start=4

Depends on what territory you are in then.

Yeah, but the GW legal page also tells you you can't combine their product with product made by other people for conversions, so I don't give it a lot of weight.

That has nothing to do with the point in question, and thier stance is clear.

In addition, what you failed to mention is that your point has further stipulations that allow it for personal and one-off conversions etc, but not a blanket 'law' as you portrayed it.

This however is not the topic being discussed, nor does it lend any weight to your point that you can ignore thier IP demands/restrictions in other areas!

Savnock wrote:Getting the guy(s) booted from eBay shouldn't be hard though.

Harder than you might think - ebay will carry on collecting their commission for as long as they possibly can - the main reason I won't be voting for Meg Whitman as California governor!

A couple of years back, I saw a guy on ebay selling pirate copies of some software I use, made by a small company who were good guys.

Pointed out to eBay who did absolutely nothing about it, so we created a new ebay id, won all his auctions and then sent him photocopied money in payment.

Never did receive the discs, though!

^^ Class!

Orki wrote:That has nothing to do with the point in question, and thier stance is clear.

Well, GW's stance doesn't really matter in a legal sense.

But, the laws are pretty clear in this. Their plastic, resin, or whatever models are copyright protected. You cannot violate someone's copyright, even if it is for personal use. If you do, they can certainly sue you for their damages, perhaps even additional punitive damages (I'm not familiar with UK law).

Converting a model is not something GW can legally prevent you from doing, nor is scratch building a model that doesn't look like one of theirs. In fact, in those cases, you would hold a copyright on it!


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BloodQuest wrote:

Savnock wrote:Getting the guy(s) booted from eBay shouldn't be hard though.

Harder than you might think - ebay will carry on collecting their commission for as long as they possibly can - the main reason I won't be voting for Meg Whitman as California governor!

A couple of years back, I saw a guy on ebay selling pirate copies of some software I use, made by a small company who were good guys.

Pointed out to eBay who did absolutely nothing about it, so we created a new ebay id, won all his auctions and then sent him photocopied money in payment.

Never did receive the discs, though!

This is pretty funny, but be careful! Copyright violation is a relatively minor offense. What you did could be counter-fitting, which is MUCH more serious. Even if it was clearly fake, you tried to use it as an actual payment which is taken rather seriously by the secret service.

Grakmar wrote:
Well, GW's stance doesn't really matter in a legal sense.

But, the laws are pretty clear in this. Their plastic, resin, or whatever models are copyright protected. You cannot violate someone's copyright, even if it is for personal use. If you do, they can certainly sue you for their damages, perhaps even additional punitive damages (I'm not familiar with UK law).

Converting a model is not something GW can legally prevent you from doing, nor is scratch building a model that doesn't look like one of theirs. In fact, in those cases, you would hold a copyright on it!

Are you picking on me for my use of the word 'stance'?



But yeah, btw GW positively encourage conversions...

Orki wrote:
Are you picking on me for my use of the word 'stance'?

No, no, not picking. Just pointing out that many times, companies have a "legal" page that really isn't notifying you of the laws. They're sometimes just "Don't do this!" and trying to sound all important, but actually they have no recourse if you do do it.

For example, GW's line: "PLEASE NOTE that any work you create using our intellectual property is not "owned" by you. It is called a "derivative work" and those parts based upon our IP do not give rise to their own copyright. Please bear this in mind when using our IP." This is true if all you are doing is a minor reposition or painting or switching a gun or something like that. But, if you make a substantive change to the model, you do, in fact, gain your own copyright on it.

(Please note: I am not a lawyer, this is not actual legal advice. Don't come trying to find me if I'm wrong and you get sued! )