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I have read a few of the 40k codexes and a couple of books but I have never really gathered: who is the most powerful faction in 40K?

I would think that the Imperium would be but you always hear about them being old and their empire crumbling away...
Obviously the Tau are pretty near the bottom, they never do anything really significant...
Orks? I'm not sure how much space they actually control or how many there are...

Any ideas? Who is the top dog in warhammer 40k?

as long as you don't jump on the SM bandwagon....
I play IG, and they're fun in my opinion. And they are quite powerfull too. Might not be the strongest, but...

Scrazza wrote:as long as you don't jump on the SM bandwagon....
I play IG, and they're fun in my opinion. And they are quite powerfull too. Might not be the strongest, but...

I think he means in the fluff.

There is no real "most strong army" in 40k. every codex is biased towards that army. the imperium is the biggest with inexhaustible man power and arguably the best all around warriors in the universe. clearly they are the best.

The orks reproduce by spores, they multiply very quickly and there are so many of them they would crush the galaxy flat if they all could unite under one wargh banner.

the tyrinids are going to eat everyone, the hive fleets that the ultramarines deflected twice were just the 1st trickles of a much larger force, way more then anyone can handle, they are the strongest.

blah blah blah so on and so fourth.

If your talking who is the strongest with regard to the actual game? it depends. IG are crazy, i've been wrecked time and again by tyrinids but I love SW so i'd say wolves. depends on your point of view.

In truth - there isn't one. After all, if there was one faction that was better than all the others then you wouldn't have all the factions locked in unending war. Each of the main factions is locked in an unending power struggle and the whole game is (in theory) based around the fact that none of the factions can get the upper hand.

Also, different people will say different things:

Orks are the best! They have unending numbers, are made specifically for war and they are really tough to kill! They could kill everyone if they ever united!

Tyranids are the best! There are loads and loads of them and they will just adapt to everything you throw at them, making them invincible!

Necrons are the best! No-one knows how many there are and we've only seen their common militia. They regenerate from anything and they have loads of really killy guys hidden in their tomb worlds, ready to kill everyone!

Tau are the best! They are technologically advanced, and they are getting more advanced all the time. They're also the good guys and the good guys always win!

The Imperium is the best! They have almost infinite amounts of men and they have Space Marines!

Chaos is the best! They can corrupt anything and they are totally badass. They also have gods who actually do stuff!

Eldar are the best! They may be old and dying, but they can see the future and can manipulate everything to their own favour. They also have super awesome technology!

... Continue Ad Nauseum ...

Each of the different points of view will also have a counter argument to anything any of the other factions come up with, so the debate is pretty pointless and can continue for ever. In the words of GW (presumably): Just... as... planned... (Tzeeneech is the best!)

I'm biased but I would say Dark Eldar. Their armies we see fielded in 40k are just raiding parties going out to plunder slaves. Striking from their city hidden deep in the webway. Letting them traverse huge distances as if they were nothing. Imagine if enough Dark Eldar actually stopped their petty wars in Commorragh and actually made Temporary Kabal alliances to seek out some massive undertaking or goal..

Of course whatever that might be to make them act so radically different from the norm would be far reaching and huge in game terms I guess.

In the fluff, it's definitely Orks.

In a galaxy where there is only war, Orks can only win.

In the way all the fluff is described, it sounds like the imperium is top dog, but is constantly struggling to keep that position.

Of course, they are only in that postion because of the emperors crusade, which catapulted the human race into a dominant position.

Fluffwise, It's gotta be Tyranids. The Imperium would be overcome and the Eldar die out. It would be between the 'Crons, Tyranids and Orks.
Tyranids and orks may seem neck-and-neck but the fact that Tyranids don't eat (therefore kill) necrons due to them being metal means that they can focus their entire species upon the orks while the orks must split themselves between the crons and Nids. I imagine the crons, too, would destroy the Orks first due to them being around the same time the Necrontyr were around, making it a bit more personal for the C'tan.

Weren't Orks made to be the ultimate last resort weapon?

And so it begins...

On a slightly different note, I sometimes wonder what would happen were the Tyranids to go into the eye of Terror? Would SitW neutralise it, or would the unending ocean of chaos swallow the 'nids with a little burp?

Dastardly Dave wrote:And so it begins...

On a slightly different note, I sometimes wonder what would happen were the Tyranids to go into the eye of Terror? Would SitW neutralise it, or would the unending ocean of chaos swallow the 'nids with a little burp?

I really don't know for sure but in Storm of Iron chaos is using a corrupted hive ship to carry titans around. It talks about how they infected it with the obliterator virus and cut it off from the hive mind or something like that. So I guess its at least possible, if not common, for chaos to corrupt 'nids.

purplefood wrote:

Scrazza wrote:as long as you don't jump on the SM bandwagon....
I play IG, and they're fun in my opinion. And they are quite powerfull too. Might not be the strongest, but...

I think he means in the fluff.

woops. My mistake

Sorry, I should have made that clear

Orks - They kill stuff, they propigate = win. They lose, but they still killed stuff, they propigate more = win.

Nids - They eat stuff = win. They lose, they still ate stuff to send back to the hivemind = win.

Those two I'd say, ultimately, would be the "strongest" by the pure fact that if they win, they win, if they lose, they win.

Ashryu wrote:
I really don't know for sure but in Storm of Iron chaos is using a corrupted hive ship to carry titans around. It talks about how they infected it with the obliterator virus and cut it off from the hive mind or something like that. So I guess its at least possible, if not common, for chaos to corrupt 'nids.

Iron Warriors FTW!!! but seriously, if there's one argument that frustrates me it's the, "if the Orks ever united, they'd crush everything" argument, that's like saying, "hey if this car had wheels, it'd beat everyone else in a race!" the fact is that the car doesn't have wheels, and the Orks are not united. Ergo I'd have to side with the Tyranids on this one, if the supporting fluff (i.e. the codex) is anything to go by, then they are a galactic vacuum cleaner and we're all screwed anyways. After they're done and move on to another galaxy, the c'tan and necrons will inherit the galaxy and can dance across a dead dusty galaxy to their little metal hearts content.

Whomever has the best bitz for the fight wins, dats who!

Orks, of course. They are the most successful race, having conquered and infested the most planets, and having the largest population. Orks feed off of war, fighting makes them stronger.

And in 40k there is only war.

Melissia wrote:Orks, of course. They are the most successful race, having conquered and infested the most planets, and having the largest population. Orks feed off of war, fighting makes them stronger.

And in 40k there is only war.

and Tyranids feed off Orks, imagine that, ah the circle of life continues...

Tyranids or Orks. Almost certainly Tyranids, but if the hive fleets seen aren't just the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg, as has been hinted, Orks might have a shot.

The Imperium is nowhere near top dog. As soon as the Emperor finally gives up the ghost, that's the end of the Imperium. It can't survive without the Astronomicon. And the Golden Throne is broken beyond repair, meaning the Emperor will, in fact, die eventually, because they can't keep his life support running.

A single Ork kingdom stopped a hive fleet into a war of attrition in which the Orks are getting stronger at a rate the Tyranids cannot likely overcome. The Tyranids have shown themselves incompetent when it comes to utilizing Ork DNA.

Eliminating.
Tau out. to noseless
Elder out. to wrinkly
Dark elder out. to small
Chaos out to minority
necrons out to clunky
that leaves nids orks and space merisess.
you decide

Ledabot wrote: that leaves nids orks and space merisess.
you decide

Why "Space Marines" instead of "Imperium"?

Space Marines cannot survive without the rest of the Imperium, especially not without the Imperial Guard, Imperial Navy, and the Mechanicus.

the hive fleets are tendrils of the whole, leaf through the tyranid codex if you have one on hand, there's a diagram of the galactic plane showing the overall angle of approach for the actual Tyranid hive-fleet. It's pretty much the same size as our entire galaxy, I'm sorry but potent and highly evolved as the Orks are, they were created by the Old Ones. Beings that, though powerful and seemingly omnipotent, were still relegated to this galaxy. The Tyranids are inter-galactic super predators, they've done this whole thing before, been there, got the t-shirt. The Orks thrive because they release fungus spores that allow them to rapidly reproduce, which means they can never truly be conquered by traditional means. The Tyranids however consume ALL biomass on a planet, effectively leaving it a desert. the hive mind could literally throw enough Tyranids at a planet to cover every square foot. Sorry Orks, you lose.

Being able to travel does not equate to being better at war. Just because Tyranids hibernated through the warp as they traveled between galaxies doesn't mean they're taht much better than Orks. In one of the Ork codices, it was noted that Ork radio signals are coming from outside the galaxy, so it could very well be that Orks have already made such a trek themselves.

let us know as soon as hyper-evolved super Orks come out of the Galactic rim and consume the galaxy, until such a time, I still maintain that Tyranids pose the greatest threat to life in the galaxy.

Brother Heinrich wrote:let us know as soon as hyper-evolved super Orks come out of the Galactic rim and consume the galaxy, until such a time, I still maintain that Tyranids pose the greatest threat to life in the galaxy.

That's disputed, and certainly not what was asked in the thread's OP.

Brutii11 wrote:
Any ideas? Who is the top dog in warhammer 40k?

no the verbage doesn't say greatest threat to all life however I'd consider being the greatest threat to make you the top dog, remember we're talking fluff here as well, not tabletop. I'm not disputing the Orks' badassery, I'm just saying they come in second, now if they'd already managed to piece together this vaunted "Ork super crusade" then I might revise my opinion, as it stands however the Tyranids are already off the starting lines and racing towards the finish, while the Orks are still busy at the start line shooting their guns and punching eachother.

Considering his post actually mentioned how much territory is controlled in the post (read more than just the last sentence), the FACT that Orks control an inhabit more planets than all other sentients combined rather settles the question. The territory of the Ork race is measured in the density of ork infested and controlled planets in each region of space, rather than via lines drawn on a map. Because they are EVERYWHERE.

Melissia wrote:Considering his post actually mentioned how much territory is controlled in the post (read more than just the last sentence), the FACT that Orks control an inhabit more planets than all other sentients combined rather settles the question. The territory of the Ork race is measured in the density of ork infested and controlled planets in each region of space, rather than via lines drawn on a map. Because they are EVERYWHERE.

well I'd say thats rather subjective, I mean its not like there's an Ork census flying around, AFAIK the Imperium of Man is still king when it comes to territory controlled. the forces of chaos inhabit a small corner of the galaxy, as do the Tau, the Necrons are arguably wide spread however there dormant status means that at present they don't control a whole lot, the Eldar float around like space nomads on their craftworlds, while the Dark Eldar hide out in the webway in Cormoragh, the Orks inhabit the majority of the galactic "south" if you will. Theres a pretty well layed out map of Imperial territory in the rulebook, it also indicates what region of space the other races inhabit.