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Pretty sure this was in earlier editions but not anymore. It's very simple: I should be able to shoot pistols in close combat. This means that a polt pistol will have a S4 AP5 attack, a laspistol being roughly the same as wacking you with it, and a plasma pistol a S7 AP2 hit with a chance of meltdown. Why do I want this? Because it makes sense and would make pistols useful for more than just that +1 attack.

M.

Infantryman wrote:Pretty sure this was in earlier editions but not anymore. It's very simple: I should be able to shoot pistols in close combat. This means that a polt pistol will have a S4 AP5 attack, a laspistol being roughly the same as wacking you with it, and a plasma pistol a S7 AP2 hit with a chance of meltdown. Why do I want this? Because it makes sense and would make pistols useful for more than just that +1 attack.

M.

I can honestly agree. It would honestly make more sense than "well my PW gets 1 more attack because I have a pistol". But, for simplicities sake, I can see why GW did it... because rolling 3 separate rolls (normal attacks, pistol attacks, and power weapon attacks) would get convoluted quickly

Hmmm.

Less practical than just +1A, but clever.

Definitely makes the PP better.

Also, would this be a shooting phase thing or an assault phase thing? And would it have to be at a CC opponent?

It would be a CC thing. If, say, I have a model with a CCW and a PP, he could fire his pistol in the shooting phase and then charge (as par the pistol rules). Then in CC he gets his attacks, half with the CCW and half with the pistol, resolved exactly as if he had fired the pistol. Exactly how you want to divvy up the attacks is up to the player, but both weapons must be used before another one can be. That is, if I have 3 attacks on the charge I can choose PP, CCW, PP or CCW, PP, CCW.

I've done this before and it's really no more complicated than remembering that a terminator sgt has one weapon while the grunts have another. It certainly makes assaulty troops with pistols a bit toothier. Still up in the air if you should still get the +1 for having Pistol and CCW but I doubt you should.

M.

It's an abstraction, the +1A is to represent extremely short ranged fire as well as hitting people with your pistol

It's true, this would make sense but for simplicity's sake, GW have done it this way. You could play it as a house rule though.

Does it being a ranged weapon affect I?

Also, it seems to me that this would make FW all kinds of un-useless in cc.

It would definitely throw off the balance of the game somewhat. Models with a power weapon get a big downgrade, but models without get a big upgrade (improved AP and even Str in many cases). But, I like the idea, and a balance shift wouldn't be the end of the world.

I'd think that the "shooting" would still work off I, that makes the most sense.

What about a model with a power fist+pistol. Would they get a pistol shot, or still be restricted by the PF?

Hmmm, what about fleeting with pistols? Do I still get to shoot it?

In 5thed pistols make alot more sense imo. You forget that in effect you DO get to fire your pistol in CC as it is an assault weapon. 8/10 of cenarios you are gonna fire your pistols rite before a charge. Also you are forgeting that strength 7 ap2 Pistol(assault 1) is not the profile for a single shot it is the profile for firing that weapon (possibly the whole mag!). One idea i would risk proposing is an initiative bonus of +1 for weilding a pistol and CCW. And possibly a furious charge kinda thing for a plasma pistol.

So you want Marines to ignore Guard and Ork armor saves in close combat?

Also IMO It misses the fundamental point that firing any gun in close combat (apart from some kind of long barreled heavy weapon) is pretty much the same difficulty.You gotta also take into account the danger to friendlies of firing in what is often described as a 'swirling melee'... Furious charge or initiative bonus on charge is all, if anything, pistols deserve...

It would make Seraphim hit a bit harder (twin-linked S4 AP5 attacks in close combat which can become S6 AP5? Fun times). Which would be nice, but I still think it's silly to have Marines murder Guard easier in close combat than they already do.

Warhammer 6th edtion CC rules: if you play Tau, and anything gets in CC with you, You lose automaticly. Also, you owe the winner $450 and must please them with your mouth.