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I've looked around on the army list sections, the tactic section, and the battle report section trying to gauge how effective a BA DoA force would be. It seems to do alright, but most of these builds I've seen usually include Mephiston, Baals, or other non-DoA elements. I'm thinking about using a list similar to the ones found in this thread.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/325767.page

So at 1850 points, does the DoA force stand an even chance against IG parking lots, SW parking lots and ML spam, and the various other "power builds" out there? What are it's strengths (besides the obvious FnP/FC and jump pack stuff) and what does it really struggle with? Any help would be appreciated as I would like to take the BA DoA to the 40k Championship at Adepticon in 5 months (my Tau just won't cut it)

Yes it works great, but they key isn't 100% doa its 100% deepstrike/outflank. Scouts, scout bikers, and even termies can work in a doa list.

The other main thing to keep in mind is most of the time you don't want to doa, its better to start off on the table. Granted if an alpha strike gunline gets turn 1 or the scenario is dawn of war doa is the way to go, but that's a plan b situation and starting on the table is plan a.

As long as the list remains vehicle free it has a huge advantage of target saturation.

It could work very well. Good amounts of Vanguard can knock out priority targets relatively well while your assaults can pop into objectives

Actually I have found starting the entire army in reserve and deepstriking all your units works best. You can take full advantage of DoA (1d6" scatter plus reroll reserves).

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:I've looked around on the army list sections, the tactic section, and the battle report section trying to gauge how effective a BA DoA force would be. It seems to do alright, but most of these builds I've seen usually include Mephiston, Baals, or other non-DoA elements. I'm thinking about using a list similar to the ones found in this thread.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/325767.page

So at 1850 points, does the DoA force stand an even chance against IG parking lots, SW parking lots and ML spam, and the various other "power builds" out there? What are it's strengths (besides the obvious FnP/FC and jump pack stuff) and what does it really struggle with? Any help would be appreciated as I would like to take the BA DoA to the 40k Championship at Adepticon in 5 months (my Tau just won't cut it)

this is the blood angels army I play. 4 assault squads 2 librarians 3 sanguinary priests all jump packs as many meltaguns and storm shields and power weapons as I can take librarians get unleash rage and shield of sanguinius at 1500 points. Its quite effective. I hold in reserve on turn 1 as a default because I want my opponent to deploy and make his first moves in total ignorance of what I intend. He tips his hand first, then the army shows up in full or near full strength. the reduced scatter means you can deep strike and melt on the same turn if you absolutely have to do it, although usually its best to come down in cover because you're pretty vulnerable on the turn the army arrives and there arent that many invulnerable saves in the force. that being said a unit of assault marines with jump packs, melta guns, power weapons, preferred enemy, feel no pain, and furious charge, can handle just about any situation in the game. they're tough as nails, they'll win 9 assaults out of 10 squad for squad (in the few they cant win strait up, just throwing in another squad usually solves the problem), they're mobile, their mobility can't be taken away by a lascannon or melta shot, lascannons and other heavy weapons have no targets. if the army has a weakness its low model count and reliance on independent characters. since furious charge, feel no pain, and preferred enemy are all coming from characters who aren't all that hard to kill in close combat where these guys get placed in close combats is pretty important. that being said blood angels should be getting the charge most of the time and that's where they really shine. I think its a really strong list so I'd encourage you to play it. good luck.


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yes you absolutely stand a chance against guard. he gets 1 turn to shoot you then you wreck his face in close combat. I played this army against a traditional guard gunline (not special weapon spam ala leafblower mind you) and won 3 games in a row against a strong opponent. in all 3 games he conceded by the end of turn 2 because 80% of my force was still in action and he was already down 50% and stuck in close combat.

A BA Jump Pack/DoA list is imo one of the strongest in the game, it beats almost everything in assault and is very difficult for most armies to stop thanks to FNP. Against a Mech Guard list you can full reserve and get the bulk of your army in on turn 2 (ideally skipping two of his shooting phases). 4 Assault Squads which combat squad on the drop = 8 separate 5 man units (all should still be in FNP range ideally) each with a meltagun which should always be in range (DoA means you should either mishap or are in range). This is going to cripple the bulk of his vehicles in a single phase even without factoring in you HG and Vanguard. Kill points aside, combat squading everything will cause people real headaches as they simply can't kill that many Marines in a single round (they can't split their fire up enough for one thing), particularly once you have crippled their army on the drop. As long as you can survive a single turn after the drop you will probably win, your Marines will hit combat and beat him to death.

I prefer the second list you posted in that thread btw. I don't really see the point in the Sanguinary Guard in the first list, unless you are taking Dante they aren't a great choice imo. The main problem with your lists though is the total lack of ranged fire support. While you obviously aren't using a shooting based list, its still very helpful to have at least some shooting. If you come up against mobile firepower armies like Eldar or Tau then you need to be able to at least slow them down enough so you can catch them and you never want to be in a position where you just have to run at the enemy and cross you fingers you get there. Long ranged anti tank is also particularly important when using Vanguard, ideally you want to get them into combat on the drop with an infantry squad (or better yet assaulting vehicle and just clipping an infantry unit) so they avoid getting shot to pieces the following turn. Finding the points might a bit tricky (the 5 man Assault squad and a Priest are the only easy choices to drop), but 1 ideally 2 units of ML Devastators would be very helpful for this list.

Again finding points will be a challenge, but adding the Sanguinor to this list would make it truly scary in combat, his +1 attack bubble combined with his other buffs mesh really well with this kind of list. You would probably have to drop 1 of the Librarian + HG units to get him (and not be able to fit in the Devastators) though.

I've been playing a lot of games with a DoA/Jump Pack list lately and really liking it. I've had some trouble against Mech IG (AP2 big blasts demolish deepstriking units) and Tyranids (too many MCs) but I've had pretty strong matchups agaisnt just about everything else so far. The ability to make your opponent play a 3-4 turn game when you get to play 4-5 turns is really powerful, especially when you get to fire the first damaging shots as well. DoA itself is the real reason the list actually works because it makes sure you get the majority of your army on turn 2 and lets you land them with good precision. You get to pick where you fight and what you fight against and you force your opponent to start reacting to you immediately. It really helps you dictate the game and set your units up for favorable combats/shooting/protection from incoming fire/etc.

Powerguy wrote:A BA Jump Pack/DoA list is imo one of the strongest in the game, it beats almost everything in assault and is very difficult for most armies to stop thanks to FNP. Against a Mech Guard list you can full reserve and get the bulk of your army in on turn 2 (ideally skipping two of his shooting phases). 4 Assault Squads which combat squad on the drop = 8 separate 5 man units (all should still be in FNP range ideally) each with a meltagun which should always be in range (DoA means you should either mishap or are in range). This is going to cripple the bulk of his vehicles in a single phase even without factoring in you HG and Vanguard. Kill points aside, combat squading everything will cause people real headaches as they simply can't kill that many Marines in a single round (they can't split their fire up enough for one thing), particularly once you have crippled their army on the drop. As long as you can survive a single turn after the drop you will probably win, your Marines will hit combat and beat him to death.

I prefer the second list you posted in that thread btw. I don't really see the point in the Sanguinary Guard in the first list, unless you are taking Dante they aren't a great choice imo. The main problem with your lists though is the total lack of ranged fire support. While you obviously aren't using a shooting based list, its still very helpful to have at least some shooting. If you come up against mobile firepower armies like Eldar or Tau then you need to be able to at least slow them down enough so you can catch them and you never want to be in a position where you just have to run at the enemy and cross you fingers you get there. Long ranged anti tank is also particularly important when using Vanguard, ideally you want to get them into combat on the drop with an infantry squad (or better yet assaulting vehicle and just clipping an infantry unit) so they avoid getting shot to pieces the following turn. Finding the points might a bit tricky (the 5 man Assault squad and a Priest are the only easy choices to drop), but 1 ideally 2 units of ML Devastators would be very helpful for this list.

Again finding points will be a challenge, but adding the Sanguinor to this list would make it truly scary in combat, his +1 attack bubble combined with his other buffs mesh really well with this kind of list. You would probably have to drop 1 of the Librarian + HG units to get him (and not be able to fit in the Devastators) though.

The problem with devastators is that they'll have to start on the board, or I'll have to mount them up and lose at least two rounds of shooting from them as they'll go in reserve. I think the only real options for firepower are either outflanking, or deep striking. Land Speeders seem to be the best option.

As for catching Eldar, you're right - it'll be tough. Tau, however, don't have the speed to avoid 50 jump packers - especially as they'll likely be pinned against a board edge once the jump packers drop.

It is certainly a strong list. I have played against it 4 times with my SW and lost twice and won twice. I have beaten it both times I played against it with my Salamanders. I think Salamanders have better shooting to deal with all the FNP, especially since I tend to field a LRR which WILL get to shoot you since there is no way I will let you drop within 12 in of it on your initial drop. But still, DoA BA is the one list I truly hate seeing across from me, I don't fear it but I certainly dislike playing against it (in a good way).

All DS armies are only scary if you have never faced them before. Its a lot of shock and awe, but if you know whats coming, its easy enough to prepare for. There will be no awe, and the shock will only be provided by lucky die rolls.

Infantry bubbles around pie plate throwing tanks, your own reserves, even the lowly 35 point rhino is golden as you smoke on turn one, then if it does die, you just pile out and shoot the crap out of whatever is in front of you.

Then there is also the trick of deploying around terrain instead of in it. You may not get the cover save from the one or two melta guns, but they now have no safe landing point. You can force dangerous terrain checks and mishaps with unlucky scatter and inconvenient landing spots.

@Jayden63 I agree with pretty much everything you said. In particular I am a fan of going second and holding all my units in reserve. He arrives first allowing me to see his battle plan and react to it. Being able to go second is, imo, preferable to going first against the DoA deepstrike army of doom .

Funny enough I have had several games with my DoA BA versus mech armies where my opponent placed their entire army in reserve and the bulk of my army did not arrive until the 3rd turn. It's purely random but the BA player does not have to reroll their reserves if a unit fails to appear. So to say that reserving your entire army is the perfect counter to a deepstrking army is untrue - basically it's a crap shoot and you are relying upon luck to gain an advantage. Probably the best counter to DoA for most armies is to castle but DoA can handle that as well so I dont think there is one method above all others that nerfs DoA.

I played some games against DoA Bloodies. ( I am guard with all my heart )

It is actually not useful to stay in reserve because 50% of your army will fight 100% of the opponents army. This is deadly if you have to go into the infight.
The trick is castling with a skirmishing line of infantry in the front and some blast weapons behind (executioners to be precise). But be careful to leave no gaps in your deployment he can use to place squads in between. so he have to DS in front of you and will most likely scatter either away or to death and his meltapower will be reduced to a marginal bit. so he will most likely run (if not he will not do much damage and will be pie plated in return). Then you have your alphastrike situation and you must prove your worth in a bloody infight which can go in both directions. Either you win gloriously or you will suffer badly, but it will always be a bloody mess.

Bloodies are a mismatch for guard in general. It doesnt matter if they use tankstorm or jumpers. Its always tough to win against them.

I had tons of trouble with Assault Marines DoA army. But I have had some good games with sang guard and dante. Dante with libbie with blood lance, priest and sang guard will do well to knock out IG parking lots. They can Deep strike wherever you want, and blood lance can shoot separate unit than the melta pistols. I haven't played many games with them but they seem to do pretty well for me. I also always have a honor guard.

I find Van guard to be vastly expensive, and if they don't get that assault on the drop they seem to be a waste to me. wound allocation can be fun thou.


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i also like including land speeders outflanking or deep striking with HB or MM to knock out hoards and tanks as well.

Jayden63 wrote:All DS armies are only scary if you have never faced them before. Its a lot of shock and awe, but if you know whats coming, its easy enough to prepare for. There will be no awe, and the shock will only be provided by lucky die rolls.

Infantry bubbles around pie plate throwing tanks, your own reserves, even the lowly 35 point rhino is golden as you smoke on turn one, then if it does die, you just pile out and shoot the crap out of whatever is in front of you.

Then there is also the trick of deploying around terrain instead of in it. You may not get the cover save from the one or two melta guns, but they now have no safe landing point. You can force dangerous terrain checks and mishaps with unlucky scatter and inconvenient landing spots.

Good points Jayden. As a long time Tau player, the deep strike defense is second nature. Of course, we have no pie plates that FnP Space Marines care about.

Really, how many armies in a tournament setting are likely to bring big infantry bubbles backed up by pie plates? IG of course, and probably CSM but who else?

I personally would love to play this kind of list. Deepstriking so many models is bound to strike fear.

Find cover, though, otherwise those Battle Cannons will eat you.

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:All DS armies are only scary if you have never faced them before. Its a lot of shock and awe, but if you know whats coming, its easy enough to prepare for. There will be no awe, and the shock will only be provided by lucky die rolls.

Infantry bubbles around pie plate throwing tanks, your own reserves, even the lowly 35 point rhino is golden as you smoke on turn one, then if it does die, you just pile out and shoot the crap out of whatever is in front of you.

Then there is also the trick of deploying around terrain instead of in it. You may not get the cover save from the one or two melta guns, but they now have no safe landing point. You can force dangerous terrain checks and mishaps with unlucky scatter and inconvenient landing spots.

Good points Jayden. As a long time Tau player, the deep strike defense is second nature. Of course, we have no pie plates that FnP Space Marines care about.

Really, how many armies in a tournament setting are likely to bring big infantry bubbles backed up by pie plates? IG of course, and probably CSM but who else?

My SW list brings two Vindies to the table, so thats scary to any DS list. Thats when you either use GH to surround them, or use the terrain trick. SW also have the Tempests Wraith power which scares the hell out of DS lists. My wolves haven't really had issues.

My Tau bring Kroot to bubble around my broadsides and/or D-fish. FNP doesn't like railguns or tau plasma. Also plasma devi squads (they do exist) need some protection as well.

@ Sgt_Scruffy. The idea is to deploy the Devastators at the start of the game or move them on turn 1 for DoW. The problem with completely relying on outflanking or Deep Striking in is that they are very random (although with BA its more tolerable). You never want to get yourself into a situation where you absolutely have to kill something in a single round of shooting, its always better to starting opening transport etc before you end up right next to them so you can avoid being torrented to death if you fail to do damage. For a DoA list Devs are by far the best way to do this, in cover and deployed well back they will take quite a bit to shift, even more so with a Priest for support. If you don't take Vanguard you probably don't need them as much though, Vanguard are far too vulnerable and expensive if they can't get into combat with an infantry unit on the drop.

Against Eldar I wouldn't be too worried about losing unless you play really badly in an objectives mission. While you may struggle to catch him (although DoA everything in his face and dropping some Serpents early will help) Eldar simply don't have anything which can realistically deal with the numbers of FNP Marines you can field.

@ Jayden63. A DoA based list like this obviously doesn't like facing pie plates very much, but they aren't actually that scary. For one thing anything with that can squash an entire unit with one shot is going to be pretty high on the target priority list on the drop (or before the drop if they bring Devastators/some other ranged support), obviously you can screen them but that doesn't guarantee they will still be around. More importantly each pie plate can ONLY kill one unit per turn max (assuming you don't scatter, don't fail to wound and they don't have cover), with combat squads you will end up with more targets than you can possibly kill in a single round of shooting (and next turn they will be all over you). While you can pick and choose which units you want to kill, the most important ones (HG in particular) are going to be the hardest to kill off as they should have Shield.

Tau will struggle mostly due to the jump pack movement imo, although the lack of an effective pie plate doesn't help. Bubble wrapping is obviously the way to go, but it becomes much harder when they can jump over you if you leave space. Your Kroot screens also won't last very long when flamer units land next to you or Vanguard assault the turn they arrive.

i was thinking maybe scout bikers with homing beacon could be useful, fly them up, keep them in cover and then use the beacon to drop down some vanguard vets or other such!

The 1D6 scatter from DoA tends to be accurate enough to get the Vanguards stuck in on the turn they land.

Things like Vindicators and Russes/Medusas/low AP pie plates as scary for sure, but the BA players gets to take the first shots at them. Sometimes with IG it can be really dificult since they can hide their artilery behind like 13 other vehicles so the BA player can't get to it. Things like Vindicators are real easy to get to on the drop though as they won't have a huge wall of vehicles in them, which really works in favor of the BA player. Pretty much every single unit in the BA army will be able to land and kill a Vindicator consistently.

Caffran9 wrote:The 1D6 scatter from DoA tends to be accurate enough to get the Vanguards stuck in on the turn they land.

Things like Vindicators and Russes/Medusas/low AP pie plates as scary for sure, but the BA players gets to take the first shots at them. Sometimes with IG it can be really dificult since they can hide their artilery behind like 13 other vehicles so the BA player can't get to it. Things like Vindicators are real easy to get to on the drop though as they won't have a huge wall of vehicles in them, which really works in favor of the BA player. Pretty much every single unit in the BA army will be able to land and kill a Vindicator consistently.

That depends on how predictable the BA army is. If the opponent knows the BA are going to deepstrike the counter tactic is to go 2nd, screen units expecting a counter attack, and pop smoke on all vehicles on turn 1. BA come in on turn 2 and every vehicle is obscured by smoke, and a pair of melta guns are not reliable against a smoked vehicle. It's better to go 2nd in an objective based mission anyways, especially for an IG army with 3 valks loaded with troops. The best way to handle a DOA player who only knows how to DOA and never starts on the board is to go 2nd.

you basically have a 50% chance of going second since the DoA player will want to as well. The problem with scout bikers with homing beacons is that a) they have to be on the board the turn something drops. b) they have to be alive and c) they have to be fairly close to the enemy to achieve what you'd want.

schadenfreude wrote:

Caffran9 wrote:The 1D6 scatter from DoA tends to be accurate enough to get the Vanguards stuck in on the turn they land.

Things like Vindicators and Russes/Medusas/low AP pie plates as scary for sure, but the BA players gets to take the first shots at them. Sometimes with IG it can be really dificult since they can hide their artilery behind like 13 other vehicles so the BA player can't get to it. Things like Vindicators are real easy to get to on the drop though as they won't have a huge wall of vehicles in them, which really works in favor of the BA player. Pretty much every single unit in the BA army will be able to land and kill a Vindicator consistently.

That depends on how predictable the BA army is. If the opponent knows the BA are going to deepstrike the counter tactic is to go 2nd, screen units expecting a counter attack, and pop smoke on all vehicles on turn 1. BA come in on turn 2 and every vehicle is obscured by smoke, and a pair of melta guns are not reliable against a smoked vehicle. It's better to go 2nd in an objective based mission anyways, especially for an IG army with 3 valks loaded with troops. The best way to handle a DOA player who only knows how to DOA and never starts on the board is to go 2nd.

Clearly yes. But why is the opposing player always the one choosing to go first or second? The BA player gets a big advantage from going second because he gets to force the opposing player to only really play for 3-5 turns instead of 5-7 turns. Shooting anything at a smoked vehicle isn't ideal but with a Melta you're probably doing some kind of real damage with every single shot that gets past a cover save. At worst, you're stopping the vehicle from shooting on the following turn with each shot that breaks a cover save. Stopping pie plates from shooting is a very acceptable result for an army that was just deployed in tight b2b circles. You can also charge those vehicles with your Vanguards, who will have a Powerfist and Krak Grenades (and most of the time str5 attacks). They can do good damage.

Pretty much every single unit that lands on the table for the BA player will be effective against vehicles. The big fear for the BA player will be that there is no way to get to the vehicles with the relevant weapons on the turn they land (like against IG, they can bury their pie plates behind walls of Chimeras so they don't get touched by the melta weapons immediately).

is it useful to only DoA some of the army, the rest of it staying on the field. And what about outflanking those bikes, then having the homing beacon come into play, can that work?

Sageheart wrote:is it useful to only DoA some of the army, the rest of it staying on the field. And what about outflanking those bikes, then having the homing beacon come into play, can that work?

It's the same problem with using the Trygon's deepstrike tunnel. Even if the scouts come in on turn 2, nobody can use their locator beacon until turn 3. If they don't come in turn 2 (50% chance), then you're looking at turn 4 at the earliest before the beacon can be used. Most DoA units usually want to be there in turn 2.

You can really only effectively use the locator beacon on scout bikes when you're going first--so about half the time. In an army that already has a low model count, doesn't seem worth it to me.

what about a few small squads of scouts, inftrate them into cover with no gear save a beacon, have them just within range to be 6inches out of cover so marines can deep strike right next tothem. If your opponent puts everything into reserves in order to deal with your DoA army then the scouts should be safe for a turn or two and with 4+ armor, and cover they should be able to hold off the few reserved troops that come in in order to set off the beacon. They are cheap as well, i mean cheap if you look at a typical assault squd. if the opponent doesn't reserve the army I guess they are pretty much dead... I mean there is something to say for 4+ armor and cover.

Sageheart wrote:what about a few small squads of scouts, inftrate them into cover with no gear save a beacon, have them just within range to be 6inches out of cover so marines can deep strike right next tothem. If your opponent puts everything into reserves in order to deal with your DoA army then the scouts should be safe for a turn or two and with 4+ armor, and cover they should be able to hold off the few reserved troops that come in in order to set off the beacon. They are cheap as well, i mean cheap if you look at a typical assault squd. if the opponent doesn't reserve the army I guess they are pretty much dead... I mean there is something to say for 4+ armor and cover.

It's not the deep striking that we're worried about really. Descent of Angels takes care of that pretty well. It's penetrating bubble wrap reliably to get to the S8 pie plates

Caffran9 wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Caffran9 wrote:The 1D6 scatter from DoA tends to be accurate enough to get the Vanguards stuck in on the turn they land.

Things like Vindicators and Russes/Medusas/low AP pie plates as scary for sure, but the BA players gets to take the first shots at them. Sometimes with IG it can be really dificult since they can hide their artilery behind like 13 other vehicles so the BA player can't get to it. Things like Vindicators are real easy to get to on the drop though as they won't have a huge wall of vehicles in them, which really works in favor of the BA player. Pretty much every single unit in the BA army will be able to land and kill a Vindicator consistently.

That depends on how predictable the BA army is. If the opponent knows the BA are going to deepstrike the counter tactic is to go 2nd, screen units expecting a counter attack, and pop smoke on all vehicles on turn 1. BA come in on turn 2 and every vehicle is obscured by smoke, and a pair of melta guns are not reliable against a smoked vehicle. It's better to go 2nd in an objective based mission anyways, especially for an IG army with 3 valks loaded with troops. The best way to handle a DOA player who only knows how to DOA and never starts on the board is to go 2nd.

Clearly yes. But why is the opposing player always the one choosing to go first or second? The BA player gets a big advantage from going second because he gets to force the opposing player to only really play for 3-5 turns instead of 5-7 turns. Shooting anything at a smoked vehicle isn't ideal but with a Melta you're probably doing some kind of real damage with every single shot that gets past a cover save. At worst, you're stopping the vehicle from shooting on the following turn with each shot that breaks a cover save. Stopping pie plates from shooting is a very acceptable result for an army that was just deployed in tight b2b circles. You can also charge those vehicles with your Vanguards, who will have a Powerfist and Krak Grenades (and most of the time str5 attacks). They can do good damage.

Pretty much every single unit that lands on the table for the BA player will be effective against vehicles. The big fear for the BA player will be that there is no way to get to the vehicles with the relevant weapons on the turn they land (like against IG, they can bury their pie plates behind walls of Chimeras so they don't get touched by the melta weapons immediately).

Shooting at a smoked Vehicle is a huge deal, it cuts melta damage in half. Half a DOA's melta firepower is gone for a turn, that's a huge deal. Worst of all the opponent doesn't give up any shooting because there are no targets on the table, so the mech player loses nothing by popping smoke.

Only having 1 battle plan for going 2nd and not having a battle plan for going first is as 1 dimensional as IG leafblower's strategy of always going first. In one out of 8 times a player will get their choice of going first or 2nd in a 3 round tournament.


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Sageheart wrote:is it useful to only DoA some of the army, the rest of it staying on the field. And what about outflanking those bikes, then having the homing beacon come into play, can that work?

Scout bikes are great in a DoA army.

If the entire army deep strikes they can outflank. The don't get DoA rerolls, but it makes the opponent side table edges a dangerous place to be for any unit that can't handle scout bikes.

If the BA DOA army gets, or get stuck with turn 1 against a gunline/IG then scout bikes can launch a turn 1 assault against vehicles that have not moved yet. Since the entire BA battle line can advance to wtihin 12" of the enemy front line in a ptiched battle A priest can be in range, or even join the scout bikes in a turn 1 assault if rear members of the squad daisy chain to within 2" of the priest's end location after he advances 12" forward. A full squad of scout bikes can do 9 krak grenades autohits or 18 Str5 autohits (or 3 each if the Sanguinor gets a good run result) +3Str9 powerfists against multiple vehicles. BA scout bikes can do a good turn 1 alpha strike against vehicles that have not moved yet.

If the BA player starts on the table they can also turbo boost with 1 member 6" from a priest for a 3++/4+ FNP and the rest of the army gains a cover save from them. Not bad for 20 point T5 models. Depending on table set up and enemy army composition it might be worth while for the DOA player to start on the table when going 2nd.

Having the ability to go first, go 2nd, start on the table, and Deep strike/outflank with the entire army makes an army both flexible and unpredictable, and being both flexible, unpredictable, and highly mobile is a dangerous combination that gives the DoA army an opportunity to outplay their opponent.

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:

Sageheart wrote:what about a few small squads of scouts, inftrate them into cover with no gear save a beacon, have them just within range to be 6inches out of cover so marines can deep strike right next tothem. If your opponent puts everything into reserves in order to deal with your DoA army then the scouts should be safe for a turn or two and with 4+ armor, and cover they should be able to hold off the few reserved troops that come in in order to set off the beacon. They are cheap as well, i mean cheap if you look at a typical assault squd. if the opponent doesn't reserve the army I guess they are pretty much dead... I mean there is something to say for 4+ armor and cover.

It's not the deep striking that we're worried about really. Descent of Angels takes care of that pretty well. It's penetrating bubble wrap reliably to get to the S8 pie plates

I know that, i was just thinking that a direct deep strike rather than a scatter can get meltaguns in a better position, or vanguard vets in a better place so that such tanks can be knocked out. I'm not sure if that makes sense or not exactly. you can also scatter a unit nearby, and use the beacon for the next squad to get it dangerously close to the other unit knowing it wont scatter rather than having the units spread apart where they each get torn apart without being able to support each other.

maybe its just me but i always find half my army getting on the field and other things not getting where I need them, or I find my army each getting shot apart separately, too far apart to help each other, or lastly I get my units too far away from the enemy since my opponent places his units in ways to get me to be too scared to get close due to mishaps.

I think the best way to play DoA is go pure DoA. You'll want a Stormraven with a dreadnaught onboard. The Blood Talons will mince right through the bubblewrap plus they can be equipped with heavy flamers as well. Personally I've never had any problems versus IG parking lots and always look forward to playing them. There is a definite breakpoint where IG will crumble versus DoA. The jump units can cover a lot of ground quickly and even two to three assault Marines will wreck IG vets in close combat. I like to use the Stormraven to snipe tanks as it's well equipped for this role and it's also an excellent counter versus Vendettas and Valkyries.