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Having read multiple sources across my whole playing career, i've found multiple answers to the following question:

"Does the Warhammer World exist in the same universe as the 40k universe?"

Does anyone have a stone cold reference to point to to answer this question?

I believe that it used to, but was later retconned so that now it does not.

only GW knows.

SilverMK2 is right it used to then GW decided to change the fluff. This is a very unusual circumstance as GW has committed never to change fluff of anything cannon............... Sorry I can't hold it in anymore *sides split with laughter*

For some reason I recall one of the older codices identifying the Old World in some part of the galaxy. I want to say it's the Necrons, but I might just be having cryptoamnesia.

42
Longer answer: Both started as one background, but then they ran into so many contradictions that they just split the two universes completely.
More here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/311887.page

It was implied at points that the Warhammer Fantasy world existed within the Imperium of Man.

They never really flatout said it past the early days, and removed all references come like 1996/97ish.

Old fluff: implied that they are the same
Fluff that was made after electricity was invented: no connection implied from the 40k side at all, some nudges at the old idea with the Albion wargear from the WHFB side, nothing explicit though.

Definitive? GW has never said "they are totally separate", but they shouldn't have to. They are separate.

It was prettymuch outright stated that they were in one universe before. If I remember Space Marines even appeared in fantasy and Sigmar was hinted at being one of the two lost primarchs. However all of that has been retconned to hell and back and the two universes seem to be separated in the extreme, with only the chaos gods being in common since the Warp defied reality.

I thought Fantasy was the past and 40K was the future.

Mr Nobody wrote:I thought Fantasy was the past and 40K was the future.

Nope. Fantasy is Fantasy and 40K is OUR future by fluff.

The home planet of humans is explicitly stated to be future earth, so there's no way the two games would originate (fluff wise) from the same planet, even if it was in the same universe. Plus, Slaanesh was born roughly around the time of the Great Crusade (the fluff says 10,000 years ago, which coincides with the Great Crusade, but Slaanesh cults already sprung up all over the place so it's hard to tell), several thousand years after present day.

Not anymore.


It's like the Total Annihilation games versus the SupCom games. Both concepts thought of by the same person, but still quite separate.

Could, theoretically, the UEF and Cybrans advance into the point where they become, respectively, the ARM and the CORE? Sure. But just because they're both Chris Taylor games doesn't mean they're actually connected.

Yeah the Slannesh thing is the most confising - Slannesh was born at the apex of the Eldar's corruption, but yet it's still part of fantasy?

That takes some thinking...

...

It's not confusing at all.

When Fantasy/40k were "tied together", Fantasy could have been postulated to be a planet within the 40k universe that was just at the feudal level.

40k takes place after Slaanesh was born. So there's no timeline issue there.

With how the two are separated now, it's easy to consider Fantasy as a divergent dimension where Slaanesh was birthed by another race or whatever. Thus, it exists.

Melissia wrote:Not anymore.


It's like the Total Annihilation games versus the SupCom games. Both concepts thought of by the same person, but still quite separate.

Could, theoretically, the UEF and Cybrans advance into the point where they become, respectively, the ARM and the CORE? Sure. But just because they're both Chris Taylor games doesn't mean they're actually connected.

Hah, interesting choice of comparison Melissia, I love those games! Although I would say it's an unfair comparison as there's a distinction between all four races even if you can see certain traits and similarity in play styles. The problem with this is that although once connected GW decided to remove that connection... except they still have exactly the same gods and daemons in both games to the point where if you swap over bases you can play one game or the other. Can't really blame people if they have a hard time accepting this, me included.

@Kanluwen

I don't think that it was that obvious an answer, so some of us who maybe aren't up to speed on all the fluff wouldn't have known!

I don't believe so. I think GW has said on multiple occasions that they're separate.

How long ago was slaanesh created? In 40k fluff, I mean?

Samus_aran115 wrote:How long ago was slaanesh created? In 40k fluff, I mean?

Ten thousand years.

As to the OP's question, if you were to look at White Dwarf 93 then it is clear that originally the two universes were linked; Warhammer 40,000 used many or the same creatures as WFB 'which are now revealed in their entire cosmic guise.'

More blatantly there is this, 'The Warhammer 40,000 background is an extension of the Warhammer game series, linking the Warhammer Fantasy Battle and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay games into a complete background.'

Now of course Games Workshop have stated that the two universes are seperate with no connection at all. So Slaanesh in WFB was not created by the Eldar for example. Of course the games designers still like to leave little hints that they were once linked of course, like the power fist et cetera that were available, in the Albion Campaign for example.

Gogsnik wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:How long ago was slaanesh created? In 40k fluff, I mean?

Ten thousand years.

As to the OP's question, if you were to look at White Dwarf 93 then it is clear that originally the two universes were linked; Warhammer 40,000 used many or the same creatures as WFB 'which are now revealed in their entire cosmic guise.'

More blatantly there is this, 'The Warhammer 40,000 background is an extension of the Warhammer game series, linking the Warhammer Fantasy Battle and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay games into a complete background.'

Now of course Games Workshop have stated that the two universes are seperate with no connection at all. So Slaanesh in WFB was not created by the Eldar for example. Of course the games designers still like to leave little hints that they were once linked of course, like the power fist et cetera that were available, in the Albion Campaign for example.

Ah, I see. Yeah, that's what I was going for. If it isn't the same slaanesh, there's no way they could be the same universes....

This is very useful insight!

Here's some speculation:

The necrons were pitted against a race known as "the old ones", which (IIRC, though I could be WAY wrong), I think is also another name for Slann? Any possible connection there?

As I say, they used to be, Sigmar was quite obviously meant to be a Primarch but now, apparently, they aren't linked. I don't see why Games Workshop decided to make the distinction, probably something to do with their IP but it would have been more interesting to have left them linked. Now though it is easier to think of them as parallel universes, blame Games Workshop for all the confusion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

liam0404 wrote:This is very useful insight!

Here's some speculation:

The necrons were pitted against a race known as "the old ones", which (IIRC, though I could be WAY wrong), I think is also another name for Slann? Any possible connection there?

The Old Ones were a race of beings (or races of beings) responsible for creating the Slaan not actually Slaan themselves; they also created many other races like the Eldar, Jokaero, the Krork which are generally thought to be early Orks et cetera.

Well I was in the right ballpark at least!

This surely has to be more evidence of a connection though?

liam0404 wrote:This is very useful insight!

Here's some speculation:

The necrons were pitted against a race known as "the old ones", which (IIRC, though I could be WAY wrong), I think is also another name for Slann? Any possible connection there?

The old ones fought against the C'tan...The C'tan tricked the necrotyr into becoming mindless drones (to escape the harmful radiation of their sun) and they fought against the old ones...The old one's eventually died, after creating every other race in the galaxy with their uber powers.

The slaan were one of the original races the old one's created (to fight the c'tan). They later deviated into the eldar sometime in the last million years or so.

The c'tan are basically just stars that compressed into living beings.

Actually...Just read the lexicanum articles on c'tan, old ones and necrons.

I am liking the fact that dinosaurs are older than Slannesh.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:The home planet of humans is explicitly stated to be future earth

Well apart from the location seeing as Terra is in the centre of the galaxy, while Earth is on one of the outlieing arms.

Samus_aran115 wrote:The c'tan are basically just stars that compressed into living beings.

The c'tan used to eat stars, they were more like massive nearly invilible manta ray/flat worm that wrapped around a sun

BluntmanDC wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:The home planet of humans is explicitly stated to be future earth

Well apart from the location seeing as Terra is in the centre of the galaxy, while Earth is on one of the outlieing arms.

Maybe they moved it?

BluntmanDC wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:The home planet of humans is explicitly stated to be future earth

Well apart from the location seeing as Terra is in the centre of the galaxy, while Earth is on one of the outlieing arms.

Samus_aran115 wrote:The c'tan are basically just stars that compressed into living beings.

The c'tan used to eat stars, they were more like massive nearly invilible manta ray/flat worm that wrapped around a sun

That's sort of what I meant to write. Thank you ^>^

purplefood wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:The home planet of humans is explicitly stated to be future earth

Well apart from the location seeing as Terra is in the centre of the galaxy, while Earth is on one of the outlieing arms.

Maybe they moved it?

yer it makes the fluff alot more managable if Terra is at the centre not at the very edge of galaxy, such as the light of the emperor for the astropaths and navigators, and in Earths actual position, Terra would be the first world to be devoured by a hive fleet.

So lets set aside fantasy for the moment, from oldest to youngest, what is the age of the current races in the 40k universe? This doesn't have to be restricted to playable races.