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I currently Play a CSM, Armoured Khorn zerker army, I have lost 6/6 matches to my buddy,
my problem I am having while playing is that he favors Broadsides with Rail Guns and a Hammer-Head With a Rail-gun.
With those units he keeps his firewarriors bunched up near to provide a meat sheild for him.
Any Suggestions would be appreciated.

dont play chaos space marines. I've been complaining about their mobility on other threads and this is exactly what I mean. you're too dependent on your rhinos as a csm player, which are slow and not at all hard to kill.

what you need to do is suddenly declare to your opponent that your zerkers are no longer zerkers. they have realized the wicked error of their ways, begged forgiveness, and been readmitted to the imperium as faithful blood angels. the upshot of which is that you will from that point on be using a *good* not a *crap* codex. then your rhinos will be fast, you can take drop pods, you can take assault marines as troops, etc. then your mobility issues are resolved and you can clobber the filthy xenos in close combat, as God always intended.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:dont play chaos space marines. I've been complaining about their mobility on other threads and this is exactly what I mean. you're too dependent on your rhinos as a csm player, which are slow and not at all hard to kill.

what you need to do is suddenly declare to your opponent that your zerkers are no longer zerkers. they have realized the wicked error of their ways, begged forgiveness, and been readmitted to the imperium as faithful blood angels. the upshot of which is that you will from that point on be using a *good* not a *crap* codex. then your rhinos will be fast, you can take drop pods, you can take assault marines as troops, etc. then your mobility issues are resolved and you can clobber the filthy xenos in close combat, as God always intended.

That is no use to him what so ever. Obviously he wants tips on how to win. Not how to reroll.

If he is favoring a lot of STRONG weaponry, this means he's using a lot of points into his tanks / suits.

I got one word for you. Horde.
More units > strong incoming firepower
less units < strong incoming firepower

If he has lots of railguns, that means that they can pick off maybe (assuming your playing upto 2k points) about 10-15 guys a turn max with them. drop the transports and deep strike / horde rush him.
I dont know much about tau or CSM, so this is a very bad generalisation

Termicide to take out those railguns.

If he's using Firewarriors as a meat sheild (like you said) Obliterators. (they can use heavy flamers right?) If they can get heavy flamers you can ignore their armour and most likely make them take a moral check.

Can you tell us what models you have in your collection and what exactly this person used in his list last time? This info would help greatly with advice. Also the full list your rolling with.

However, Obliterators are allways a good idea.

Aqua wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:dont play chaos space marines. I've been complaining about their mobility on other threads and this is exactly what I mean. you're too dependent on your rhinos as a csm player, which are slow and not at all hard to kill.

what you need to do is suddenly declare to your opponent that your zerkers are no longer zerkers. they have realized the wicked error of their ways, begged forgiveness, and been readmitted to the imperium as faithful blood angels. the upshot of which is that you will from that point on be using a *good* not a *crap* codex. then your rhinos will be fast, you can take drop pods, you can take assault marines as troops, etc. then your mobility issues are resolved and you can clobber the filthy xenos in close combat, as God always intended.

That is no use to him what so ever. Obviously he wants tips on how to win. Not how to reroll.

If he is favoring a lot of STRONG weaponry, this means he's using a lot of points into his tanks / suits.

I got one word for you. Horde.
More units > strong incoming firepower
less units < strong incoming firepower

If he has lots of railguns, that means that they can pick off maybe (assuming your playing upto 2k points) about 10-15 guys a turn max with them. drop the transports and deep strike / horde rush him.
I dont know much about tau or CSM, so this is a very bad generalisation

sure its useful. he's playing a crap codex. if he plays a good codex his chances will improve.
if his opponent has a bunch of rail guns and the chaos marines are riding around in rhinos, then str 10 ap 1 + marker lights removing his cover means the rhinos will not last. after that he's fighting crisis suits etc. that are more mobile than he is and shootier. if he catches them in close combat he'll win, but he probably won't catch them. so basically he'll just chase the crisis suits around and get blown away, or sit in cover and play for a stale mate. so the 1st step here is to resolve the mobility issue vs. tau. since codex: chaos space marines doesnt have the tools to do this its time to switch books. if he just has to play chaos then he should build a shooty army. trying to out shoot tau is dumb of course, but trying to assault them when you dont have the mobility to catch them is even dumber.

one weakness to tau is that they have difficulty holding objectives because they blow in assault and usually survive by staying away from their opponents. as a result if you can get onto the objectives you have a lot better chance of drawing or even winning. so capture as much territory early on as possible.

but really. just dont play chaos.


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VikingScott wrote:Termicide to take out those railguns.

If he's using Firewarriors as a meat sheild (like you said) Obliterators. (they can use heavy flamers right?) If they can get heavy flamers you can ignore their armour and most likely make them take a moral check.

the broad sides can take shield drones. deep striking melta guns is not the answer here. deep striking terminators and then trying to assault with them might do a little better.... but not much.

I play Tau and my friend plays CSM. I have not won a game ageanst him. He runs bikers and they are far to fast to stop before they get into cc and mow my guys. His user name on Dakka is Tyranic Marta.

take broad sides and paint the bikes with marker lights. youre twin linked, you wound on 2s, and he gets no cover or armor. splat.

The main problem i hate them is because his sorc and lord are in with the mix. Daemon weapons are bad and lash is broken. i did manage to do quite a bit of damage to them last time i played him though

the sorcerer isnt immune to instant death. once you've stripped the squad with plasmaguns on your crisis suits, blow the sorcerer away with a rail gun.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:sure its useful. he's playing a crap codex. if he plays a good codex his chances will improve.

The question 'how can i win with Chaos' is not solved by answering 'don't play with Chaos'. If he plays with Blood Angels, he might well win with Blood Angels. He still wouldn't be winning with Chaos.

Besides, a Khorne Berserker army is characterised by lots of frothing loonies running forward. A BA army is characterised by Jump Troops. These are not interchangeable. Tell you what, the IG codex is pretty good, why doesn't the OP just count them as a Mordian army, and take loads of Manticores and Valkyries. Yeah, that would 'solve' the problem too...



@OP

I like the suggestion of the horde of frothing loonies running forward - Tau have only one template weapon available, and it's quite easy to oversaturate them with targets. I'd also have a look at some fluffy ways to get closer quicker - how about infiltrating Chosen with a MoK, and an Icon, and some Daemons in reserve? Deep Striking Terminators with a MoK? Either of these solutions would fit right into a Khorne army and allow you to get closer, quicker.

he didnt ask how he could win with chaos. he just asked how he could win. then he said any suggestions would be appreciated. I think if you double check you'll see that my suggestion falls within the original parameters of the question.

sure the armies are interchangeable. they're both assault based space marines in red armor. berserkers are nuts 24/7, blood angels have brief interludes of sanity.

Hoard and cc. Its what will kill a Tau army every time trust me.
If you want to use a rhino (I dont play csm), my friend uses one to get a fire team in a position to fire at me. Cant ignore it, especially if it is aimed at my broadsides, thus gives you time to chop me to bits.

ArbitorIan wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:sure its useful. he's playing a crap codex. if he plays a good codex his chances will improve.

The question 'how can i win with Chaos' is not solved by answering 'don't play with Chaos'. If he plays with Blood Angels, he might well win with Blood Angels. He still wouldn't be winning with Chaos.

Besides, a Khorne Berserker army is characterised by lots of frothing loonies running forward. A BA army is characterised by Jump Troops. These are not interchangeable. Tell you what, the IG codex is pretty good, why doesn't the OP just count them as a Mordian army, and take loads of Manticores and Valkyries. Yeah, that would 'solve' the problem too...



@OP

I like the suggestion of the horde of frothing loonies running forward - Tau have only one template weapon available, and it's quite easy to oversaturate them with targets. I'd also have a look at some fluffy ways to get closer quicker - how about infiltrating Chosen with a MoK, and an Icon, and some Daemons in reserve? Deep Striking Terminators with a MoK? Either of these solutions would fit right into a Khorne army and allow you to get closer, quicker.

A gang of six chosen outflanking in a rhino tooled up with 5 meltas or plasmas will make short work of broadsides. Especially in a spearhead game where he will be bottled up at the back of a corner (just got to hope you roll well). Good idea with the icon and infil, I might try that.

I haven't played Chaos in a while and I lost me codex, but here's what I can tell you from having experience of always getting my face stomped on by all the marine players down here.

Deepstriking raptor-spam/Termicide with meltaguns can really ruin a Tau Player's day. Also having a Land Raider as a sacrificial sheep can be a good investment. Otherwise Lascannon Obliterators ought to do some damage against the Hammerheads.

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:I haven't played Chaos in a while and I lost me codex, but here's what I can tell you from having experience of always getting my face stomped on by all the marine players down here.

Deepstriking raptor-spam/Termicide with meltaguns can really ruin a Tau Player's day. Also having a Land Raider as a sacrificial sheep can be a good investment. Otherwise Lascannon Obliterators ought to do some damage against the Hammerheads.

They will.
The horror the horror!

AbaddonFidelis wrote: dont play chaos space marines. I've been complaining about their mobility on other threads and this is exactly what I mean. you're too dependent on your rhinos as a csm player, which are slow and not at all hard to kill.

what you need to do is suddenly declare to your opponent that your zerkers are no longer zerkers. they have realized the wicked error of their ways, begged forgiveness, and been readmitted to the imperium as faithful blood angels. the upshot of which is that you will from that point on be using a *good* not a *crap* codex. then your rhinos will be fast, you can take drop pods, you can take assault marines as troops, etc. then your mobility issues are resolved and you can clobber the filthy xenos in close combat, as God always intended.

This guy.


Really, posting what models you've got etc is what we need, otherwise you're just going to get vague mumbles of "get some oblits" "rhinos are good" "I'm a incredible douche who's response to anyone playing CSM is to tell them to change armies", which really aren't useful

remind me why I took you off of ignore....?

FAFAFA...FLAMMMMEEWARRR!!

Chill out guys. Just looked at the Chaos 'dex, OP may benefit by switching his HQ's to lash princes'. Give them Daemon weapons and they are still BAMF in CC, plus alot more utility than Khorne.

Well, all right.

Let's stop slagging each other off and get back on the topic.

Changing codex is one option however it is pretty obvious, so I assume the OP is looking for better ideas out of his current codex.

I know nothing about CSM, but generally the key to fighting Tau is to get into melee as soon as possible.

Its a shame that chaos fast attack isnt very good. You'll have to rely on DS on his behind with termies and oblits in order to take his stuff down. Outflanking chosen can also work I suppose

Take your forces and spread them out, add in some obliterators, try taking lesser demons to deal with the infantry, and don't get in your rhinos.

Yup, don't get in. use your rhinos to provide cover and another target for your opponents fire. The tau cannot deal with multiple targets that well, simply split up and spread out, then tactically advance on him. One lord with a demon weapon and jump pack should be able to tie up a broadside unit, or anything else on the field.

Outflankers are great here--pity the CSM don't have many that are good in cc.

It really does sounds like you need to horde up. Just get more models out on the board. The most surprising win I ever pulled off against chaos against the IG (old codex) was by going first and deploying nothing but six rhinos full of berzerkers with two daemon prince hiding behind them.

Bikers might work ok for tying up some of the enemy before they can rip up your rhinos. At the very least it will force your opponent to shoot them instead of the main force.

All that said, it'd really be good to know what you're working with.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:dont play chaos space marines. I've been complaining about their mobility on other threads and this is exactly what I mean. you're too dependent on your rhinos as a csm player, which are slow and not at all hard to kill.

what you need to do is suddenly declare to your opponent that your zerkers are no longer zerkers. they have realized the wicked error of their ways, begged forgiveness, and been readmitted to the imperium as faithful blood angels. the upshot of which is that you will from that point on be using a *good* not a *crap* codex. then your rhinos will be fast, you can take drop pods, you can take assault marines as troops, etc. then your mobility issues are resolved and you can clobber the filthy xenos in close combat, as God always intended.

For someone who wants help defeating something, I don't think "Don't play that army" is a good response. Obviously he wants to defeat the Tau with his CSM army, so how the is this a helpful comment?


Anyway, if he has a lot of railguns you might consider foot slogging it? (I am not a 40k expert by any means, so I could be completely wrong). Tau Railguns just have ridiculous strength and AP, and would make rhinos and any vehicles blow up just like that. But if you go on foot, there is always the thread of submunition rounds.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:remind me why I took you off of ignore....?

Yet you clearly still read my posts.


Come on, we have a love hate relationship and you know it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Smarteye wrote: Just looked at the Chaos 'dex, OP may benefit by switching his HQ's to lash princes'. Give them Daemon weapons and they are still BAMF in CC, plus alot more utility than Khorne.

You cannae give a DP a Daemon weapon capt'n!

... yeah bizzare ain't it. Lords only BUT lash could be useful in this situation. I shudder to say that, but with a lack of psychic defense from tau (they don't have hood/equivalent do they?) a pair of sorc's with bodyguards in rhino's or lash prince action could help significantly.

GalacticDefender wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:dont play chaos space marines. I've been complaining about their mobility on other threads and this is exactly what I mean. you're too dependent on your rhinos as a csm player, which are slow and not at all hard to kill.

what you need to do is suddenly declare to your opponent that your zerkers are no longer zerkers. they have realized the wicked error of their ways, begged forgiveness, and been readmitted to the imperium as faithful blood angels. the upshot of which is that you will from that point on be using a *good* not a *crap* codex. then your rhinos will be fast, you can take drop pods, you can take assault marines as troops, etc. then your mobility issues are resolved and you can clobber the filthy xenos in close combat, as God always intended.

For someone who wants help defeating something, I don't think "Don't play that army" is a good response. Obviously he wants to defeat the Tau with his CSM army, so how the is this a helpful comment?

its not obvious. Mb he's playing chaos because he doesn't know any better.
Look if a guy asks me how to kill a tiger with a .22 the first thing I'm going to suggest is a gun that shoots larger caliber bullets like .44 or a .50. Why does he have to kill it with a .22? Why can't he upgrade? If he just insists I might try to help him but he's probably gonna get eaten at the end of the day. He needs a good tool kit 1st and foremost.

Anyway why I'm getting heat I don't understand. I gave my suggestion, you all give yours. What's the fuss?

Because he owns a .22, not a .50

your 'solution' is cheesy, and obnoxious for the tau player. People don't like facing against entire proxy armies.

An all zerkers list is one of the least competitive options within the codex.

Chaos doesn't need any help against Tau, even chaos zerker armies. Add 2 lashes princes/sorcerers to just about any chaos list and Tau find themselves in deep Kimchi. Lashing Tau units into assault range of khorne zerkers is a lot like throwing kittens into a wood chipper.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:dont play chaos space marines. I've been complaining about their mobility on other threads and this is exactly what I mean. you're too dependent on your rhinos as a csm player, which are slow and not at all hard to kill.

what you need to do is suddenly declare to your opponent that your zerkers are no longer zerkers. they have realized the wicked error of their ways, begged forgiveness, and been readmitted to the imperium as faithful blood angels. the upshot of which is that you will from that point on be using a *good* not a *crap* codex. then your rhinos will be fast, you can take drop pods, you can take assault marines as troops, etc. then your mobility issues are resolved and you can clobber the filthy xenos in close combat, as God always intended.

WHAT!?! How Fething DARE YOU SIR!

Blood Angels are weak and Pethetic little Emperor Kiss up Wanna-be's!

Mr. If you know what is good for you, When you repent. Pick up a Large Pint of Ale and a Frost axe and come join the GLORIOUS SPACE WOLVES!!!


HOOOOOWWWWWLLLLLL!!!!




ok ok...but if you want tips to win ummm...Well I do not know much about Khorne Lists as I never played against them. If it was Slaneesh I would just tell ya to take Chaos Sorcerors and More Sound Cannons for your Noise Marines. Maybe try at first, Practicing your Techniques on Distance. Learning what 18' and 12' looks like without the red stick and how far moving 6' and being able to shoot and what you can hit and not hit.

You know practice some basics first and than re read through your codex. Find out why you are going slow and what units you can take and what special rules you can manipulate from other stuff that can fit into your list that can take him down.

ORKS for example. I can take Kommandos and Snikrot...sneak Ghazzy in the back lines and Use Deff Kopters special Outflank rules to obliterate that list you are playing...The Drop Pod Space Wolf Army I am trying to make...or at least have it as an option. Would Be Devastating to it.

You just gotta keep reading the rules and codex and practice the basics and you will win!

oh god. you guys need to get over yourselves so bad. there's nothing wrong with playing a counts as army. last thing I'll say on this thread. not for the 1st time my opinions are some how more interesting than OPs question.